Welcome to PatsFans.com

Asante Samuel and the "no franchise tag" agreement

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Armen Da Pats Fan, Aug 29, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Okay, so help me out here, those of you who are, admittedly, much more well-versed in NFL contracts and rules and such, than myself.

    This whole holdout by Asante Samuel was over the Pats agreeing to NOT franchise Asante next season?

    If a player is franchised, do they not get a salary that is averaged among the top 5 in the league or something like that, basically guaranteeing them big $$$$?

    I mean, I love Asante, but is he really worth $7.79 million? Heck no. The franchise tag worked like a golden goose for him!

    In that case, if I was a player like Asante, I would WANT my team to franchise me every year! I could play year-to-year and always be getting a top salary every time.

    One arguement, I suppose, would be the security of the a long-term deal, but it's not like getting the long-term deal in the NFL really means anything, because these contracts are not guaranteed, correct? (See Drew Bledsoe's $100 million deal with the Pats a few years back.)

    To me, this actually works out better for the Pats, in that, now that Asante has persuaded the Patriots to agree NOT to franchise him, he is basically playing for his big $$$ contract next year.

    And what do the Pats give up? Not much. They just agree to NOT pay Samuel as one of the top 5 next season and it also gives them another full season, free agent period and draft to prepare for life without Asante Samuel.

    Also, if last year was any indication, I guess that means we are going to get a HUGE season out of Asante!



    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/29/samuel_made_up_ground/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2007
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,755
    Likes Received:
    246
    Ratings:
    +607 / 17 / -16

    #24 Jersey

    In terms of dollars it's even worse than you stated because a second Franchise (the last allowed) is a 20% raise = $9.36M next year.

    You are correct that it puts the onus on Samuel to have another huge year - he's playing for his contract.

    The reason I would have Franchised him is he will still want a long term deal so if he could find a team willing to do it, as he probably would, we could then sign and trade him which entails getting something for him AND controlling where he goes (aka not to the Jets, Chargers or Broncos).

    As it stands we seem like we'll be getting a 2009 comp pick, a #4 or maybe a #3 depending on what he signs for.
     
  3. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    18,869
    Likes Received:
    352
    Ratings:
    +970 / 7 / -14

    #75 Jersey

    They do not get that one big contract with the big bonus.

    Since they could be injured and washed up at anytime, they want that one multi year contract while they are a hot commodity.
     
  4. naclone

    naclone Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    It all comes down to guaranteed money. there were a couple notable signing bonuses handed out to corners this offseason and Assante wants to capitalize on that development.

    $20 million guaranteed is more than 7.79 million.
     
  5. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,047
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +46 / 11 / -4

    #54 Jersey

    Pretty sure Samuel doesn't want you to be his agent. Players want big money up front so if the get hurt or have an off year they are taken care of. Getting franchised every year means you have to perform at a top level each year. The only player I can remember getting it year after year was Orlando Pace, and every year he help out causing a disruption to the team.

    In the past three years the Patriots have:
    1) given Seymour extra cash to come into camp
    2) allowed Branch to leave and get the contract he wanted
    3) given Samuel the potential for no Franchise tag next year

    The Patriots are shrewd negotiators but they are not invincible. Each year they gave up something to get something.

    1) Got Seymour back in camp
    2) Got a number 1 pick and ended a distraction*
    3) Got their top CB into the fold to help with a Superbowl run

    *The whole Branch situation still leaves a mark, he would have helped the team in 06 and provided some stability at the position instead of the musical chairs that is now going on.
     
  6. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    18,869
    Likes Received:
    352
    Ratings:
    +970 / 7 / -14

    #75 Jersey

    Obviously, it will be harder to get the deal he wants with the team he wants if he has to deal only with teams willing to trade something for him.

    As has been said, I don't think we really wanted to re-franchise him and I personally think it's just not right to hold these guys hostage over the years.

    We could have traded him if we wanted to this year.
     
  7. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    So it's really about the signing bonus.

    But do you think anyone will give Asante Samuel a $20 million sigining bonus?!?!

    I mean, in all truth, the guy has had one "star quality" season. Other than that, he has been good and solid, but not among the NFL elite.

    He has to put a few of them together, ala Champ Bailey, Ty Law, et al, before we start talking about that kind of dough in Foxboro!
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2007
  8. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    And in that sense, I like this deal.

    So often, these players and agents lose sight of what a negotiation means.

    A negotaition does not mean one side or the other seeks to bleed the opponent dry and get everything they can out them. It means that both sides come up with a deal that is agreeable and mutually beneficial to both of them.
     
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +17 / 1 / -0

    Um...yes. I do. AND I think they'd give up a #1 pick to do it. But now they won't. Because the Patriots caved despite having all the leverage.
     
  10. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I think Pats fans might be a bit skewed about Asante's value or worth.

    Let's not forget that this dude has really had one outstanding season.

    He is not an elite CB in the NFL IMO. I can't even believe Nate Clement got the $$$ he got, and he's a proven veteran. The market is way out of whack.

    I know he won't get that money here, and rightfully so.

    Maybe from a desperate team (ie Bucs, Lions, Bills).

    But in a sense, even if you feel like the Pats caved, and lost out on a #1, they DO get to use him for one more year and he will be playing his arse off for that fat contract. You know that.

    So, it's not a total loss.
     
  11. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    He certainly is among the best at what he does. I can't think of 5 better corners, and he's still very young. He played well before last season, so the "one big season" analysis is bunk. This is a young player progressing. The market isn't out of whack, because depth at that position is scarce right now. Therefore, the elite players are being rewarded accordingly. I wouldn't be so sure that he won't get top dollar here if he performs like he has recently. The Pats have shown that they will pay top dollar to top players. They probably won't exceed the market, but we're not dealing with a cheap franchise.

    I don't feel like either side caved. It is beneficial to both, and the Pats still have a chance to re-sign him next season to a long term deal. We'll just see what happens.
     
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    But by your logic they caved to Seymour and Branch as well so I guess you need to rethink their negotiation philosophy for them based on what you (think you) know.

    As a fan of this multi-championship team I am always interested to see what they do. I enjoy trying to figure out in advance, based on what I've observed them do in the past, what they most likely will do in the present or the future. But I would never be foolish enough to believe they screwed up if they didn't do what I believed they should do because I realize I'm just a fan and my opinion is formed from the outside gazing in. This is their business, they are professionals, and they been doing business in this league for 30 odd years. The last several of which have been mighty successful (by league standards) I might add.

    After listening to him on his WEEI wrap up show last season I believe that Bill had some genuine regrets about the FO's performance in the 2006 season. He watched his undermanned team claw it's way to the AFCC and basically miss another Superbowl that was as likely slam dunk a win for them as it was for Indy, given the NFC representative. They came up short because (even absent the flu) they didn't have sufficient personnel available to field a winning team in the second half of that game. And they found themselves in that position because they didn't have sufficient personnel to win one more regular season game that would have clinched their staying home throughout the playoffs. I think he realized that absent Branch and Law, two players he hoped/planned to field in 2006, his team was fairly hamstrung all season into a less favorable position than THEY deserved to be given how well they performed in the final analysis.

    Everyone makes mistakes, players, coaches, GM's... The only thing BB will not tolerate from his players is repeatedly making the same mistake. It was pretty obvious out of the gate this year that the message he was sending this team was I will not make the same mistake again at your expense. He went after the players he wanted and believed he needed agressively and with a vengence, and landed even more than he likely imagined he could. This team is loaded, so if they don't win this season it will not be because they were undermanned out of the gate. Injuries can still happen, but he has amassed redundant talent like in no other off season, so the FO has more than held up it's end of the bargain. This was his way of showing the team that walked off the field in Indy devastated that he was proud of them and thought they deserved to be champions based on their performance and missed out primarily because of shortcomings in his performance (as defacto GM).

    And that is why Asante is here today, because a 2008-2009 draft pick doesn't help THIS team. This is Bill's way of assuring his team that while he believes that the system puts them in a position to win, it appreciates that it still requires sufficient talent. And this FO does in fact appreciate talent that can play well within this system.
     
  13. John Moynahan

    John Moynahan Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    "In Foxboro" is the key phrase there.
    By franchising him he can only negotiate with New England.
    If he could talk to all 32 teams, it only takes one general manager to give him the kind of big long-term contract that he's looking for.
     
  14. bbabin

    bbabin On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Great post Mo. I think it's important to note the trade-off between setting a precedent/caving and fielding the best team at any given time. Although there's no way that BB isn't thinking about the future at all times, sometimes its important to do what's good for the franchise NOW.

    Think of it this way: If Asante did not play this year and again we were knocked out of the playoffs due in part to a poor defensive performance how would we feel about this compromise?

    I realize that's a big hypothetical but it's hard to argue with the strategy of fielding the best team possible without mortgaging the future, which I believe they have done.
     
  15. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,836
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +14 / 1 / -2

    Cousin,
    Very eloquintly put. But if you could arrange a trade one of our O-Line extras and Samuel to the Raiders say (who can use OL help), for Huff or Asomugha and a pic, now you have the makings of a fair trade and value for all, and we don't get a diappointing forth rounder comp pic for a first round value like Samuel. "Starting all 16 games for Oakland in 2006, Asomugha intercepted eight passes, returning one for a touchdown. He also contributed 50 tackles, one sack and one fumble recovery."
    Yes, this is perfect world scenario stuff, but what a waste to develop a good DB and have another team get the return while he is still a very young player.
    Hey, Thomas was near 30 and I can justify that release for the Ravens, but Assante is still young.
    I like the trade route for a choice even. Rememebr this, even though he is playing for a 2008 financial score, he will not want to take that extra chance to hurt himself. Nobody has mentioned this. A tweak will become an issue with him this year.
    DW Toys
     
  16. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Here's why it makes sense.

    Samuel is overstating his value...so if the pats DID franchise him next year they'd be stuck with him, as Samuel wouldn't agree to a new contract with a new team. He'd think they weren't paying enough.

    So if the Pats DID franchise him, SAmuel COULD sign the franchise thus obligating the pats to pay him almost 10M. It is guaranteed when signed, IIRC.

    I don't think the pats want to do that under any circumstances. They don't even want to risk having the franchise out there, because if he signs it, it's guaranteeed. The pats would then have to RISK trying to trade him....and suppose they couldn't? Stuck with 10M to this jerk.

    So the Pats basically gave up a right they didn't want anyway. Plus it says to samuel that he needs to play really hard in order to get his big money.

    What's kind of confusing is the "we won't franchise you if you play in x% of the plays"....well if he plays in less than x%, why would you WANT to franchise him? He'd either be injured or a malcontent.
     
  17. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    23,937
    Likes Received:
    746
    Ratings:
    +2,108 / 22 / -13

    Disable Jersey

    Please remember that If Asante injures himself badly this season, his value and future paydays drop since he only has a 1 year contract. Asante is taking substantive personal risk here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2007
  18. FortressX

    FortressX On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Now they have given up this option.
    This is a cave in plain and simple.
     
  19. denverpatsfan

    denverpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I guess he will be a Jet next season. Mangenius will get his man afterall.
     
  20. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    5,378
    Likes Received:
    141
    Ratings:
    +497 / 50 / -28

    #18 Jersey

    Why would the Raiders trade Asomugha for Samuel? Not only is he a better player, but Samuel would cost more and the Raiders already have Asomugha. That trade makes no sense; throwing a backup offensive lineman into the picture doesn't make it anymore appealing.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>