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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Box_O_Rocks, Dec 1, 2008.

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  1. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With a 7-5 record after week 13 NE has:

    Rd 1: #18
    Rd 2: #40 (from SD)
    Rd 2: #49 (bump up to the #17 draft position as part of the 7-5 teams rotation)
    Rd 3: #86 (dropping to the last place #22 position of the 7-5 teams).

    While I hope they get some help to get them that wildcard slot, it's not bad draft positioning for a team looking to re-tool for another strong decade competing in the playoffs.
  2. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    this could be a great draft, many players are expected to come out because of the 2010 cba...
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    This should be a very strong draft as j00fek said. Regarding the draft position, I expect us to win 3/4 to end the season, maybe even 4/4 although I can't imagine our pass defense holding up against the Cardinals so I think we'll be down in the mid 20s when all is said and done.
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Minor point, Box, but I think you forgot to cycle the San Diego pick properly; I think it's actually #39.

    Likewise, it hasn't been announced, but the Pats will almost certainly have either #97 or #98 as comp for Asante.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Given Belichick's history, I would expect the #86 to be traded into 2010, and for us to have #97 for Samuel.
  6. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    there is potential for a #3 in 2010 in return for someone signing cassel
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'd agree - except I'm still uncertain about how the uncapped year affects the draft. I remember Belichick saying something about there being no draft...I highly doubt that would ever come to pass, but just the thought of it scares me.
  8. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    If the CBA expires, I believe the draft ends after the 2010 draft.
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    So, either way there is an 2010 draft - and then we'd just hope they'd figure something out by 2011?
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    To quote the CBA :eek:

    In other words, the salary cap is currently on track to disappear in 2010 (the last year of the CBA, now that the owners voted to terminate it early), so the CBA guarantees a draft in 2011, but not in 2012.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  11. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Damn...they better get a move on and work something out. There's way too much at stake not to.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My math teachers wouldn't be surprised a bit. :D
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As long as people are dreaming, let's do a little mocking: The Pats currently have #18, #39, #49, & #86 to work with in 2009.

    Using Scout.com's Top 100 Scout.com: 2009 NFL Draft Rankings let's see whom people would draft and why. Yes, this is only the Senior class, but it's too early to know which Juniors are truly coming out so have fun with it.

    For those who might wish to trade, use the Draft Value chart at Draft Countdown: Draft Countdown - Trade Value Chart

    Take a moment to explain your draft thoughts, best value, best player available, need...

    18: Juaquin Iglesias, WR, Oklahoma - BB crosses up everybody by taking a WR/KR to groom alongside Randy Moss & Wes Welker.
    39: Connor Barwin, OLB/TE, Cincinnati - An immediate contributor on STs and as the #3 TE, Barwin joins the mix of prospects BB is developing at LB.
    49: Kevin Ellison, SS, USC - He reads like a Rodney clone, limited in coverage, great run stopper in the box, field general; I think it's too early to take him, but heh, we're just mocking.
    86: Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama - Saban trained, highly productive SEC defender.
  14. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    if BB crosses, I doubt it will be for a WR........the pats have had so much more success in using FA's (and there's a ton of them at WR this year) than drafting them.......I like barwin, but if he's available, I want RB rashad jennings in round 2 (39) and hope for barwin at 49
  15. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I wonder how much the new league will affect the draft?

    Will the Patriots lose any of their draftees?
  16. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Unless the Pats acquire a pick(s) for him in 2009 via trade that is.
  17. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    you guys are crazy to even think there will be no draft. obviously thats not going to happen. i also dont know if we will be trading a 3rd rounder for a second rounder in 2010. i know we have done that several times, but its no guarantee
  18. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    we could get a 2nd in 2009 and a 2nd in 2010, or a 3rd in '09 and a 2nd in '10. ya never know. itll depend on what the market is for a decent QB. i hope we can manage a first either this year or next, but who knows whats going to happen
  19. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    #18 - William Moore, SS, Missouri. Rodney retires, we're unsure what we have in Tank, and Sanders is a back up at best. Best value, and probably BPA as well after an expected run on OT's.

    #39 - Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma. We have questionable depth at OG - drafting Loadholt allows Kazcur to move inside to his best position.

    #49 - B.J Raji, DT, Boston College. I'd love Mount Cody in all honesty, but he's heading for the top 10, so it's not going to happen. Raji looks like Vince junior and will give us good depth at NT, and maybe a replacement if Vince is allowed to walk.

    #86 - Jasper Brinkley, LB, South Carolina. I was thinking cornerback here, Joe Burnett in particular, but I love Brinkley, and it's hard to pass up round 1 talent here.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I want Moore, but using the Scout.com ranking he was #8 and would have been out of reach.

    Loadholt doesn't strike me as a Scarnecchia/Belichick O-line fit. The guys who have gotten the most play for Dante are all 6'4" 305 - Light/Neal/Hochstein, 310 - Mankins, 315 - Kaczur. Koppen is 6'3" 300. Yates 6'2" 305. O'Callaghan 6'7" 330 and Britt 6'8" 320 both go right back to the bench when Kaczur or Light are available. Levoir is 6'7", but he's "only" 306 and beat out Britt who usually beats out O'Callaghan for the #3 OT. At 6'8" 338, I just don't think Loadholt is quick enough to fit - he seems more of a Pittsburgh/Dallas roadgrader type.

    I was leaning heavily toward Raji as the next best option to Cody, I just wanted Barwin more.

    If Jaspar is still there in the 7th round, I'm interested. When I watched him before his knee injury he seemed slow to read and react. After his knee injury he didn't look any better. The Game**** I'd love to see in NE is Norwood - he could be another Tedy Bruschi at ILB.

    Thanks for playing!
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2008
  21. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    Hadn't though about the size/weight issues for the O-lineman. Cheers for the heads up on that.

    Just a though then, the one true O-line binky I have is Ciron Black - who is 6"5' and 315lbs. I just hope he comes out.
  22. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was just dozing in front of the Alabama/LSU game I DVR'd, now I'll have to rewind it and check him out - I was already forming a favorable impression of Alabama's C and left side.
  23. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Pittsburgh has sent scouts to watch Caldwell the center from Alabama. They seem to really like him.
  24. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    OLB is the most important in this draft. Orakpo, Everette Brown, George Selvie... We must get one of those 3. True change of game sack artists who can dominate. Look at the Chargers D with Merriman, and compare it to how it is without Merriman.

    As OLB in the 34, I like Selvie the most out of the 3. He has a thinner build and slim waist a la Rosevelt Colvin. Everette Brown looks really good too. Orakpo might be more of a DE than OLB. Selvie and Brown are both playing in Florida and you know how BB always scouts Florida players. We might have to trade up to get one of them, but it would be worth it if the pick pans out.


    SS and CB should be addressed some where on day 1. There's a lot of depth at Safety this year. ILB is not a huge concern but some depth and bulk is needed. Where is Jasper Brinkley projected these days? His combine will probably say alot about his draft status. If he's around in rd4, I'd take a good look at him. Guyton will get pushed around on run plays.

    There's some nice value at RB. Someone like a Shon Greene or James Davis in the 2-4rd range could potentially start for the team. The Maroney-Morris combo has failed two seasons in a row now. We need someone reliable.


    Leave the TE, OT, DE, OG picks for next year unless there's a good value pick.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  25. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Orakpo - Never played in the 3-4.
    Selvie - Selvie played this season at 235lbs... Not the listed 252. So he's undersized for a Patriots LB
    Brown - Again, never played in the 3-4

    What you don't seem to understand is that the Patriots 3-4 requires a LOT more from their OLBs than just rushing the passer. For you to expect any of them to come in and play something other than as a situational pass rusher is pretty noteworthy.

    Sorry, but we've heard for how many years that LB was the most important position for the Patriots to draft? Yet, they've done so ONCE in BB's 9 drafts.

    Are you basing this off of Selvie weighing 235 or 252? And how is Selvie's ankle? You know. The one that has been an issue all year?


    Do you understand that Day 1 is only 2 rounds now? Also, there isn't that much depth at safety. We went over this before. And I showed you a site that you, yourself, use and it showed where all these prospects of yours were ranked.. Most of them were later in the draft.

    The Maroney-Morris combination was fantastic when the O-line and the 2 RBs were all healthy. That wasn't the case this season. The O-line's consistency to start the year was horrendous. To expect either of them to do well was a joke.

    The Patriots NEED an OG to replace Neal. They also need a back-up C/G who can longsnap to replace hochstein.

    If there is one thing that Belichick has shown is that he values the LINES more than the other positions. If a DE or OT tackle is there, I would expect the Patriots to look in that direction before they look at OLB. Particularly with the number of young OLBs the Pats have on the team currently.

    OH, and while it may not satisfy you, its clear that BB doesn't agree with you at this point in time.

    As for Jaspar Brinkley, he's rating out as a 7th rounder currently. He's more likely to be a Ted Johnson Run stuffer than anything else.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  26. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    So...?

    Tons of 3-4 OLBs never played in the 3-4 in College. Most (if not all) of the best 34OLBS were DE's in college.

    LOL@you arguing for the sake of arguing. Like a bored lonely housewife who needs attention. You are the most worthless poster on this site.

    Find a hobby. You are obviously just bored and need some one to talk to. Get a therapist.
  27. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Typical of someone like yourself. A bunch of idiot nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Instead of dealing with the points presented, you act like a total jackass.

    You claim that Selvie reminds you of Colvin, yet Colvin was playing at over 260 in college and Selvie's best year he was at 235 (He played there last year also). Selvie's got a bum ankle. One he's insisted on playing on instead of letting it heal properly.

    As for Orakpo, why don't you read the scouting report on him..
    Yet, in your wisdom, you believe he'll come in and be this great 3-4 Pass Rusher immediately.

    Same with Selvie and Brown....

    While most of the good 3-4 OLBs were DEs in college, more often than not, they took at least a year to develop. Thomas took 3, Woodley took 2, Vrabel had 4 years as a DE in the Steelers system before coming to the Pats. McGinest played DE for how many years with the Pats before moving to OLB under BB? Yes, you'll have the exceptions, but that's just it. They are the exceptions, not the rule.
  28. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    Dear Idiot,

    -You're original post was saying that those 3 players have never played in a 34.
    -I stated the FACT that most 34 OLBs never played 34 in College so your point was wothless.

    -Even when a 34 College OLB was suggested as a pick (Clint Sintim), you remembered the time your father touched your private places, so you started a useless argument.
    -If you think Pierre Woods, Vince Redd, and Crable are the future OLB's, you are truly dumber than I first thought.
    -With that point above, it's obvious that OLB is a need. So why don't you list some players that you think would fit the Pats scheme instead of criticizing others. What makes you think anyone cares about your opinion? You're like an ignorant reporter who's never played a down of football in his life, but still tries to judge others. If all you do is try to be a critic, you will always be taking a step back. Instead of giving your own thoughts on how to IMPROVE the team, you just try to get off on shooting down others opinions. You are counter productive. So until you provide some suggestions on how to improve the team, shut the **** up.

    End of discussion.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  29. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Actually, my point wasn't worthless. And you clearly missed it. Here it is again for you:

    In other words, no college DE is going to come in and be this magnificent pass rusher that you want. Why? Because the Patriots run a 3-4 2 Gap scheme that most, if not all, college DEs have never been in. That means they are starting from scratch. They have to learn their position, their plays and how the players around them are supposed to act on a given play.

    You clearly are expecting a Shawne Merrimen or DeMarcus Ware and your expectations are going to continue to be unmet based on how the Patriots run their defense.

    I didn't start a usless argument. I started a very valid debate. Just because you didn't understand it, doesn't mean it was usless. It just means that you don't have anywhere near the knowledge you think you do.

    As for Redd, Woods, and Crable, I think that are part of the future of this team. Whether they are back-ups or starters is too early to tell. What I do know is that they have a leg up on anyone coming out of college because they've been in the system and have done well in it. Well, other than Crable who was IRed to start the year.

    For someone like yourself to sit there and say, categorically, that none of those 3 will be starters for this team is just pure stupidity. That is like saying that Adalius Thomas wasn't going to be a starter because he was a 6th round pick and only played in 3 games as a rookie.


    OLB is a need in your MYOPIC world and only in your MYOPIC world. I have given my own thoughts on MANY occasions. In fact, I gave my thoughts in THIS THREAD. Just because you decided to play stupid and not listen, doesn't mean that they aren't there.

    How am I counter-productive by pointing out the flaws in your thinking? By pointing out how your thinking runs contrary to how the Patriots run their team or their defense? That's not being counter-productive. You are being counter-productive by claiming to have an idea of what the Patriots need and whether or not a ROOKIE DE with no 3-4 experience at OLB can bring it.

    Instead of being a jackass and making claims that are unfounded, why don't you follow your own advice. I've made PLENTY of suggestions on how to improve this team in the past. Including, but not limited to mocks and positional breakdowns of the team. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they haven't happened.
  30. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    The slowness at LB has killed this team at times.We have a stud in Jerod Mayo and some other young fast LBs.It seems like most teams like playing their young LBs with the exception of this team.I wanna turn the page and start young back there.I really hope they draft another LB in the first round if a guy like Laurinitis or Rey from USC is there and then go CB or safety.
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