As the season winds down...

[BritPat]

I want Moore, but using the Scout.com ranking he was #8 and would have been out of reach.

Loadholt doesn't strike me as a Scarnecchia/Belichick O-line fit. The guys who have gotten the most play for Dante are all 6'4" 305 - Light/Neal/Hochstein, 310 - Mankins, 315 - Kaczur. Koppen is 6'3" 300. Yates 6'2" 305. O'Callaghan 6'7" 330 and Britt 6'8" 320 both go right back to the bench when Kaczur or Light are available. Levoir is 6'7", but he's "only" 306 and beat out Britt who usually beats out O'Callaghan for the #3 OT. At 6'8" 338, I just don't think Loadholt is quick enough to fit - he seems more of a Pittsburgh/Dallas roadgrader type.

I was leaning heavily toward Raji as the next best option to Cody, I just wanted Barwin more.

If Jaspar is still there in the 7th round, I'm interested. When I watched him before his knee injury he seemed slow to read and react. After his knee injury he didn't look any better. The Game**** I'd love to see in NE is Norwood - he could be another Tedy Bruschi at ILB.

Thanks for playing!

Hadn't though about the size/weight issues for the O-lineman. Cheers for the heads up on that.

Just a though then, the one true O-line binky I have is Ciron Black - who is 6"5' and 315lbs. I just hope he comes out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hadn't though about the size/weight issues for the O-lineman. Cheers for the heads up on that.

Just a though then, the one true O-line binky I have is Ciron Black - who is 6"5' and 315lbs. I just hope he comes out.

I was just dozing in front of the Alabama/LSU game I DVR'd, now I'll have to rewind it and check him out - I was already forming a favorable impression of Alabama's C and left side.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I was just dozing in front of the Alabama/LSU game I DVR'd, now I'll have to rewind it and check him out - I was already forming a favorable impression of Alabama's C and left side.

Pittsburgh has sent scouts to watch Caldwell the center from Alabama. They seem to really like him.

 

[KillEM]

OLB is the most important in this draft. Orakpo, Everette Brown, George Selvie... We must get one of those 3. True change of game sack artists who can dominate. Look at the Chargers D with Merriman, and compare it to how it is without Merriman.

As OLB in the 34, I like Selvie the most out of the 3. He has a thinner build and slim waist a la Rosevelt Colvin. Everette Brown looks really good too. Orakpo might be more of a DE than OLB. Selvie and Brown are both playing in Florida and you know how BB always scouts Florida players. We might have to trade up to get one of them, but it would be worth it if the pick pans out.


SS and CB should be addressed some where on day 1. There's a lot of depth at Safety this year. ILB is not a huge concern but some depth and bulk is needed. Where is Jasper Brinkley projected these days? His combine will probably say alot about his draft status. If he's around in rd4, I'd take a good look at him. Guyton will get pushed around on run plays.

There's some nice value at RB. Someone like a Shon Greene or James Davis in the 2-4rd range could potentially start for the team. The Maroney-Morris combo has failed two seasons in a row now. We need someone reliable.


Leave the TE, OT, DE, OG picks for next year unless there's a good value pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

OLB is the most important in this draft. Orakpo, Everette Brown, George Selvie... We must get one of those 3. True change of game sack artists who can dominate. Look at the Chargers D with Merriman, and compare it to how it is without Merriman.

Orakpo - Never played in the 3-4.
Selvie - Selvie played this season at 235lbs... Not the listed 252. So he's undersized for a Patriots LB
Brown - Again, never played in the 3-4

What you don't seem to understand is that the Patriots 3-4 requires a LOT more from their OLBs than just rushing the passer. For you to expect any of them to come in and play something other than as a situational pass rusher is pretty noteworthy.

Sorry, but we've heard for how many years that LB was the most important position for the Patriots to draft? Yet, they've done so ONCE in BB's 9 drafts.

As OLB in the 34, I like Selvie the most out of the 3. He has a thinner build and slim waist a la Rosevelt Colvin. Everette Brown looks really good too. Orakpo might be more of a DE than OLB. Selvie and Brown are both playing in Florida and you know how BB always scouts Florida players. We might have to trade up to get one of them, but it would be worth it if the pick pans out.

Are you basing this off of Selvie weighing 235 or 252? And how is Selvie's ankle? You know. The one that has been an issue all year?

SS and CB should be addressed some where on day 1. There's a lot of depth at Safety this year. ILB is not a huge concern but some depth and bulk is needed. Where is Jasper Brinkley projected these days? His combine will probably say alot about his draft status. If he's around in rd4, I'd take a good look at him. Guyton will get pushed around on run plays.

Do you understand that Day 1 is only 2 rounds now? Also, there isn't that much depth at safety. We went over this before. And I showed you a site that you, yourself, use and it showed where all these prospects of yours were ranked.. Most of them were later in the draft.

There's some nice value at RB. Someone like a Shon Greene or James Davis in the 2-4rd range could potentially start for the team. The Maroney-Morris combo has failed two seasons in a row now. We need someone reliable.

Leave the TE, OT, DE, OG picks for next year unless there's a good value pick.

The Maroney-Morris combination was fantastic when the O-line and the 2 RBs were all healthy. That wasn't the case this season. The O-line's consistency to start the year was horrendous. To expect either of them to do well was a joke.

The Patriots NEED an OG to replace Neal. They also need a back-up C/G who can longsnap to replace hochstein.

If there is one thing that Belichick has shown is that he values the LINES more than the other positions. If a DE or OT tackle is there, I would expect the Patriots to look in that direction before they look at OLB. Particularly with the number of young OLBs the Pats have on the team currently.

OH, and while it may not satisfy you, its clear that BB doesn't agree with you at this point in time.

As for Jaspar Brinkley, he's rating out as a 7th rounder currently. He's more likely to be a Ted Johnson Run stuffer than anything else.

 

[KillEM]

Orakpo - Never played in the 3-4.
Selvie - Selvie played this season at 235lbs... Not the listed 252. So he's undersized for a Patriots LB
Brown - Again, never played in the 3-4

So...?

Tons of 3-4 OLBs never played in the 3-4 in College. Most (if not all) of the best 34OLBS were DE's in college.

LOL@you arguing for the sake of arguing. Like a bored lonely housewife who needs attention. You are the most worthless poster on this site.

Find a hobby. You are obviously just bored and need some one to talk to. Get a therapist.

 

[DaBruinz]

So...?

Tons of 3-4 OLBs never played in the 3-4 in College. Most (if not all) of the best 34OLBS were DE's in college.

LOL@you arguing for the sake of arguing. Like a bored lonely housewife who needs attention. You are the most worthless poster on this site.

Find a hobby. You are obviously just bored and need some one to talk to. Get a therapist.

Typical of someone like yourself. A bunch of idiot nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Instead of dealing with the points presented, you act like a total jackass.

You claim that Selvie reminds you of Colvin, yet Colvin was playing at over 260 in college and Selvie's best year he was at 235 (He played there last year also). Selvie's got a bum ankle. One he's insisted on playing on instead of letting it heal properly.

As for Orakpo, why don't you read the scouting report on him..

May need to play on the strong side as a pro because he lacks great explosion and pass rush off the edge.

Yet, in your wisdom, you believe he'll come in and be this great 3-4 Pass Rusher immediately.

Same with Selvie and Brown....

While most of the good 3-4 OLBs were DEs in college, more often than not, they took at least a year to develop. Thomas took 3, Woodley took 2, Vrabel had 4 years as a DE in the Steelers system before coming to the Pats. McGinest played DE for how many years with the Pats before moving to OLB under BB? Yes, you'll have the exceptions, but that's just it. They are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

[KillEM]

Dear Idiot,

-You're original post was saying that those 3 players have never played in a 34.
-I stated the FACT that most 34 OLBs never played 34 in College so your point was wothless.

-Even when a 34 College OLB was suggested as a pick (Clint Sintim), you remembered the time your father touched your private places, so you started a useless argument.
-If you think Pierre Woods, Vince Redd, and Crable are the future OLB's, you are truly dumber than I first thought.
-With that point above, it's obvious that OLB is a need. So why don't you list some players that you think would fit the Pats scheme instead of criticizing others. What makes you think anyone cares about your opinion? You're like an ignorant reporter who's never played a down of football in his life, but still tries to judge others. If all you do is try to be a critic, you will always be taking a step back. Instead of giving your own thoughts on how to IMPROVE the team, you just try to get off on shooting down others opinions. You are counter productive. So until you provide some suggestions on how to improve the team, shut the **** up.

End of discussion.

 

[DaBruinz]

Dear Idiot,

-You're original post was saying that those 3 players have never played in a 34.
-I stated the FACT that most 34 OLBs never played 34 in College so your point was wothless.

Actually, my point wasn't worthless. And you clearly missed it. Here it is again for you:

What you don't seem to understand is that the Patriots 3-4 requires a LOT more from their OLBs than just rushing the passer. For you to expect any of them to come in and play something other than as a situational pass rusher is pretty noteworthy.

In other words, no college DE is going to come in and be this magnificent pass rusher that you want. Why? Because the Patriots run a 3-4 2 Gap scheme that most, if not all, college DEs have never been in. That means they are starting from scratch. They have to learn their position, their plays and how the players around them are supposed to act on a given play.

You clearly are expecting a Shawne Merrimen or DeMarcus Ware and your expectations are going to continue to be unmet based on how the Patriots run their defense.

-Even when a 34 College OLB was suggested as a pick (Clint Sintim), you remembered the time your father touched your private places and started a useless argument.
-If you think Pierre Woods, Vince Redd, and Crable are the future OLB's, you are truly dumber than I first thought.

I didn't start a usless argument. I started a very valid debate. Just because you didn't understand it, doesn't mean it was usless. It just means that you don't have anywhere near the knowledge you think you do.

As for Redd, Woods, and Crable, I think that are part of the future of this team. Whether they are back-ups or starters is too early to tell. What I do know is that they have a leg up on anyone coming out of college because they've been in the system and have done well in it. Well, other than Crable who was IRed to start the year.

For someone like yourself to sit there and say, categorically, that none of those 3 will be starters for this team is just pure stupidity. That is like saying that Adalius Thomas wasn't going to be a starter because he was a 6th round pick and only played in 3 games as a rookie.

-With that point above, it's obvious that OLB is a need. So why don't you list some players that you think would fit the Pats scheme instead of criticizing others. What makes you think anyone cares about your opinion? You're like an ignorant reporter who's never played a down of football in his life, but still tries to judge others. If all you do is try to be a critic, you will always be taking a step back. Instead of giving your own thoughts on how to IMPROVE the team, you just try to get off on shooting down others opinions. You are counter productive. So until you provide some suggestions on how to improve the team, shut the **** up.

End of discussion.

OLB is a need in your MYOPIC world and only in your MYOPIC world. I have given my own thoughts on MANY occasions. In fact, I gave my thoughts in THIS THREAD. Just because you decided to play stupid and not listen, doesn't mean that they aren't there.

How am I counter-productive by pointing out the flaws in your thinking? By pointing out how your thinking runs contrary to how the Patriots run their team or their defense? That's not being counter-productive. You are being counter-productive by claiming to have an idea of what the Patriots need and whether or not a ROOKIE DE with no 3-4 experience at OLB can bring it.

Instead of being a jackass and making claims that are unfounded, why don't you follow your own advice. I've made PLENTY of suggestions on how to improve this team in the past. Including, but not limited to mocks and positional breakdowns of the team. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they haven't happened.

 

[D-Money]

The slowness at LB has killed this team at times.We have a stud in Jerod Mayo and some other young fast LBs.It seems like most teams like playing their young LBs with the exception of this team.I wanna turn the page and start young back there.I really hope they draft another LB in the first round if a guy like Laurinitis or Rey from USC is there and then go CB or safety.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

OLB is a need in your MYOPIC world and only in your MYOPIC world. I have given my own thoughts on MANY occasions. In fact, I gave my thoughts in THIS THREAD. Just because you decided to play stupid and not listen, doesn't mean that they aren't there.

On the flip side, given that four of the rookie OLBs are UDFAs (although one of them clearly should have gone long before the seventh round), it's not out of the question that the Pats might pick a LB next year. But I agree that it's not a dire need.

The slowness at LB has killed this team at times.We have a stud in Jerod Mayo and some other young fast LBs.It seems like most teams like playing their young LBs with the exception of this team.I wanna turn the page and start young back there.I really hope they draft another LB in the first round if a guy like Laurinitis or Rey from USC is there and then go CB or safety.

I won't argue names, but I'd like to see at least two of the current three day one picks used on the D.

 

[DaBruinz]

The slowness at LB has killed this team at times.We have a stud in Jerod Mayo and some other young fast LBs.It seems like most teams like playing their young LBs with the exception of this team.I wanna turn the page and start young back there.I really hope they draft another LB in the first round if a guy like Laurinitis or Rey from USC is there and then go CB or safety.

Maualuga and Laurinaitis are both ILBs. Could that be upgraded? Sure.. OLB could be upgraded as well.. But it remains to be seen as to whether either is a need.

One of the things that the Patriots do is that they rate out their players on the same scale as the draftees. And then, during the draft, when they go to make a pick, one of the things they do is double-check where they have that draftee rated in comparison to their curent staff. If the player is an upgrade, they'll add him.

The biggest thing that I tried to stress to Kill'em is that there isn't going to be a cure all OLB who steps right in the way Mayo did at ILB. Mainly because the Patriots aren't going to grab a guy who is one-dimensional and can only pass rush.

 

[Warren94]

Laurinaitis is a better fit as an OLB. He tends to run around his blocks and not take on the contact. Guyton played outside in College at GA Tech (and ILB)

I am more concerned with our safety and cornerback positions than LB. Sure we need a solid passrush. I wouldn't mind Selvie as a DE because of the challenges with injury with Seymour and now Warren.

 

[D-Money]

I wouldnt be shocked if this team went CB or FS in the first round and then the same with the second pick which ever we pick first in the first round then settle with a LB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Laurinaitis is a better fit as an OLB. He tends to run around his blocks and not take on the contact. Guyton played outside in College at GA Tech (and ILB)

I am more concerned with our safety and cornerback positions than LB. Sure we need a solid passrush. I wouldn't mind Selvie as a DE because of the challenges with injury with Seymour and now Warren.

If Selvie is playing at 235, there is no way he'll be a 3-4 DE. He's light for a Pats LBer.

 

[Warren94]

ESPN - George Selvie Stats, News, Photos - South Florida Bulls - NCAA College Football

This has him a little heavier. Doesn't mean he can't rush the passer. I realize weight varies.

 

[patsfaninpa]

The other de from Texas might be a better fit for us. Sergio Kindle. He's
6'4" 240lb. He'll put on weight as he gets older. Only a Jr. Reportedly, runs a 4.5
Guys on nfl draft countdown have a big thread on him. Not sure he comes
out. But, appears to be very explosive off of the edge. McGinest rarely
dropped into coverage. I think an "elephant" type olb who's specialty
is rushing the passer is a need. That would allow us to use AD to do what
he does best. Showcase his versatility. Can blitz or cover.
Maybe not our primary need(db top need), but we could use one.

 

[DaBruinz]

ESPN - George Selvie Stats, News, Photos - South Florida Bulls - NCAA College Football

This has him a little heavier. Doesn't mean he can't rush the passer. I realize weight varies.

\

The weight of 235 is what he told a writer from NFLDraftScout.com about 2 weeks ago..

 

[VJCPatriot]

I wouldnt be shocked if this team went CB or FS in the first round and then the same with the second pick which ever we pick first in the first round then settle with a LB.

Free safety? Meriweather is our free safety. The real need is strong safety. Drafting another FS and having 2 undersized safeties in the secondary would not address the need of adding a hard hitter to the defensive backfield.

I'm still hoping that Cassel raises his stock in the next two games so we can get a good pick for him. We are going to need the help in the 2009 draft as this year's Pats defense has looked downright awful at times.

For those of you who say the Pats don't need help at OLB - how many sacks do the Pats have again? That's right oh 23. How many did they have in 2007? 47. Half the output in getting to the QB and you're not concerned at all? The guys on the outside are clearly either slowing down or injury prone - see AD, Vrabel, Woods, Crable, etc. There is nothing certain about that position and an upgrade there could really improve the ability for the Pats D to pressure the QB.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For those of you who say the Pats don't need help at OLB - how many sacks do the Pats have again? That's right oh 23. How many did they have in 2007? 47. Half the output in getting to the QB and you're not concerned at all? The guys on the outside are clearly either slowing down or injury prone - see AD, Vrabel, Woods, Crable, etc. There is nothing certain about that position and an upgrade there could really improve the ability for the Pats D to pressure the QB.

Okay, but which draft prospect has the label "instant pass rush, just add water?"

The simple truth is any rookie drafted to play OLB will most likely need a 2-4 year transition period. The stats below suggest you will need to wait at least a year - regardless of college production.

2008 1st round DE/OLB
Chris Long 4 sacks (14 his last year in college)
Vernon Gholston 0 (14 his last year in college)
Derrick Harvey 1.5 (8.5 his last year in college)
Phillip Merling 1 (7 his last year in college)
Lawrence Jackson 2 (10.5 his last year in college)

2007 1st round DE/OLB
Gaines Adams 5.5 (12.5 his last year in college)
Jamaal Anderson 2 (13.5 his last year in college)
Adam Carriker 0 (7 his last year in college)
Jarvis Moss 2.5 (7.5 his last year in college)
Anthony Spencer 1 (10.5 his last year in college)
Lawrence Timmons 4 (5 his last year in college)

The only DE/OLB in the past two drafts to be an impact pass rusher is 2007 2nd round pick Lamar Woodley with 11.5 sacks this season - he was good for 4 sacks as a rookie.

Pats rookies
Crable (7.5 his last year in college)
Robertson (6.5 his last year in college)
Redd (6.5 his last year in college)
Guyton (5 his last year in college)
Craig (3 his last year in college)
Mayo (1.5 his last year in college)
Ruud (0 his last year in college)

BB has some kids here who with healthy veterans around them may be able to step up in another year or two and have an impact (Guyton has already shown some ability as a blitzer from ILB), for 2009, I suggest we window shop the UFAs and hope to get lucky.