Armando Salguero: Ted Wells is not an investigator, he is a prosecutor

[Rob0729]

In my opinion it all comes down to what Brady wants to win, first.

Win the sentencing appeal. Win in a court of law. Or put a dent in public opinion.

If he wants to win in a court of law, I agree absolutely, hold your cards to your chest -or rather, leave them face down on the table as it were.

Until Goodell issues his ruling, it is in his best interest not to say anything no matter what he wants to win most. He comes out and blast the report now, it can only hurt him in whatever Goodell rules. It only makes it easier for Goodell to cave to mob calling for blood (which I think he will cave to anyway just not as much if Brady comes out swinging himself right away).

 

[Sfpat]

Deflating a football isn't illegal in the NFL.

Inflating one isn't illegal either.

Tampering with footballs on the field is. (of which no evidence was ever presented)

Furthermore, the balls in the AFCCG were right where the PSI should have been according to the Wells report. In other words, they weren't tampered with. They were at expected PSI.

added clarity

 

[Sfpat]

In fairness, they have lots of evidence, it's just disputable how compelling it is.

Yes they have lots of evidence. They probably have evidence that TB ate at an Applebees once, that the moon circles the earth, that the sun comes up in the east. None of it, like what was presented in the report, indicated that the Pats or TB did anything wrong.

 

[Fencer]

They do. As I was telling another poster who was ready to jump off the Tobin, there is a fissure-sized difference between hard evidence and circumstantial evidence

McNally joked about deflating balls.
Brady said something false about his relationship with McNally.

Is there anything else that could be construed as evidence by a reasonably fair person?

 

[RobertWeathers]

McNally joked about deflating balls.
Brady said something false about his relationship with McNally.

Is there anything else that could be construed as evidence by a reasonably fair person?

Depends on if that person considers those items as hard evidence that demonstrate Tb12, Jaz and McNally were part of a conspiracy to deflate footballs after they were in possession of an NFL official.

IMO, they don't.

 

[Fencer]

Depends on if that person considers those items as hard evidence that demonstrate Tb12, Jaz and McNally were part of a conspiracy to deflate footballs after they were in possession of an NFL official.

IMO, they don't.

Good point on the timing.

Walt Anderson is quoted as saying he'd never lost custody of the footballs right before game time before -- and he's surely reffed Patriots games in the past. Has any other ref ever lost custody of the balls?

 

[upstater1]

McNally joked about deflating balls.
Brady said something false about his relationship with McNally.

Is there anything else that could be construed as evidence by a reasonably fair person?

Has it been proven that Brady knew McNally's name? The texts seem to come from the other guy.

I also think it's evident that Brady wanted Jastremski to deflate those balls. After all, they were pumped to 16 PSI. When to deflate them? Who knows. I'm sure Brady just wanted them deflated. PERIOD.

 

[upstater1]

Depends on if that person considers those items as hard evidence that demonstrate Tb12, Jaz and McNally were part of a conspiracy to deflate footballs after they were in possession of an NFL official.

IMO, they don't.

Even if that was a conspiracy to deflate, it happened in the past. We don't know if they did anything with those footballs.

If they did, no one checked them. A day later after one of those emails, the balls were checked and they were at 16 PSI. Deflated?

The focus should be on the AFCCG. That's the only punishable offense. Not the past. In the past, Rodgers and others mentioned messing with footballs, the Jags and Vikings actually did it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Good point on the timing.

Walt Anderson is quoted as saying he'd never lost custody of the footballs right before game time before -- and he's surely reffed Patriots games in the past. Has any other ref ever lost custody of the balls?

Thats another question....no context.

 

[BradyFTW!]

McNally joked about deflating balls.
Brady said something false about his relationship with McNally.

Is there anything else that could be construed as evidence by a reasonably fair person?

Said something which may or may not be false. Apparently Wells did not find it plausible that Brady doesn't know a random game-day employee who shows up at Gillette 8-10 times per year. I, on the other hand, find that pretty plausible.

 

[Dr Pain]

Good point on the timing.

Walt Anderson is quoted as saying he'd never lost custody of the footballs right before game time before -- and he's surely reffed Patriots games in the past. Has any other ref ever lost custody of the balls?

And how many games started 20 minutes late so a middle age guy thinks he should probably pee

 

[Oswlek]

Can't disagree with this more.

Evidence of what?

That some balls may have been tampered with in the past?

So what? Aaron Rodgers has admitted to that. Hell, the Vikings and Jaguars were caught doing it.

The only question is, did Brady and these guys do it before the AFCCG?

There is no communication that shows they even talked about it. The balls themselves fell within the expected natural ranger.

This means there is not even one little bit of evidence at all.

What someone did in the past is totally irrelevant.

Bad and inconclusive evidence is still evidence. There really is no disputing this.

 

[Fencer]

Said something which may or may not be false. Apparently Wells did not find it plausible that Brady doesn't know a random game-day employee who shows up at Gillette 8-10 times per year. I, on the other hand, find that pretty plausible.

It's known that Brady met the guy, had heard his name, etc. So any statement to the contrary was false. Brady's defense for the false statement(s) depends on legitimately not remembering every Pats' employee he's ever heard discussed or had dealings with.

 

[Fencer]

Has it been proven that Brady knew McNally's name? The texts seem to come from the other guy.

I also think it's evident that Brady wanted Jastremski to deflate those balls. After all, they were pumped to 16 PSI. When to deflate them? Who knows. I'm sure Brady just wanted them deflated. PERIOD.

Wasn't there as Jastremsi text to McNally saying his name came up? And didn't Brady meet McNally personally when he gave him some autographs, etc.? (I'm surer of the first than the second at the moment, actually.)

 

[upstater1]

Bad and inconclusive evidence is still evidence. There really is no disputing this.

Is there evidence they did anything for the AFCCG?

The earlier stuff could be about Brady telling them to deflate, for all I care. The fact that he told him to do something is irrelevant, if we don't even know if it happened.

There needs to be evidence they deflated. More probably than not. And when we look at the balls PSI, there is no evidence that anyone even messed with them.

 

[sieglo]

Wasn't there as Jastremsi text to McNally saying his name came up? And didn't Brady meet McNally personally when he gave him some autographs, etc.? (I'm surer of the first than the second at the moment, actually.)

Brady: Hey Jastremski, tell that guy whatshisname who works for you to deflate those 16 PSI balls, okay?

Actually, the fact that Jastremski is even involved here tends to exculpate Brady from any wrongdoing. If Brady wanted the balls to be illegally tampered with, why would he even involve Jastremski at all? Instead he would logically go straight to McNally in order to minimize the number of people in on it.

 

[Oswlek]

Is there evidence they did anything for the AFCCG?

The fact that some of the balls were slightly lower than expected is evidence they did. There is no Compelling-O-Meter that determines whether something is "evidence" or just "data." The fact that my wife woke up to find me out of bed yesterday is evidence that I'm having an affair. Or that I turn invisible during REM sleep. Or that I was in the bathroom. It's up to her to decide what is most plausible.

 

[upstater1]

The fact that some of the balls were slightly lower than expected is evidence they did. There is no Compelling-O-Meter that determines whether something is "evidence" or just "data." The fact that my wife woke up to find me out of bed yesterday is evidence that I'm having an affair. Or that I turn invisible during REM sleep. Or that I was in the bathroom. It's up to her to decide what is most plausible.

We must be reading different tables, because the average gauge on each ball was around 1.2 PSI, or right around the predicted fall of 1.22.

 

[Oswlek]

We must be reading different tables, because the average gauge on each ball was around 1.2 PSI, or right around the predicted fall of 1.22.

A couple were a smidge lower than expected.

 

[upstater1]

A couple were a smidge lower than expected.

Right, but it all depends on the gauge and who checked first. And seemingly Walt Anderson couldn't say. I wonder if the 2 alternate refs could?

Regardless, the easiest thing to do is to average the two scores together. The balls fell as predicted.