ALL-BB Patriots Team

[Brady6]

Law is one considered a top 10 CB ever as well as Talib has played he is not in that category.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I'm glad to see Edledude on your list. I've been pulling for him for years. Good for him getting more reps and the respect he deserves. So he looks like the banjo player from Deliverance, so what ?

 

[PYPER]

Great thread!

No issues with the offense now that you corrected the Troy Brown oversight.

On defense, I have differing opinions. When I see this list, I imagine going to battle in Football heaven with the idea of constructing our best team.

1) Ted Washington, IMO, was the greatest NT in the history of the game. Simply put, there has never been another player with his size and ability at the NT position. He was only with us for one short year but if I'm taking this team to battle, we're a better team with him included.

2) McCourty had a great rookie year at CB and is one of my favorite players. I think the criticism he took in subsequent seasons was based mostly on ignorance. He often got blamed for getting burnt when the fault should have been placed on the safeties who blew the coverage. In other times he just fell victim to perfect throws/perfect catches. It happens, especially when the pass rush isn't effective. Having said all that, I think McCourty is better at safety than he was a CB, rookie year included. Talib would be my CB with Assante Samuel the #3. Honorable mention to Tyrone Poole who's 2003 season was outstanding.

On a side note, Milloy's skillsets wouldn't complement Harrison's at S. They're both SS types. I'd put Milloy as Harrison's backup with McCourty as the FS. I also think Eugene Wilson should garner some respect. While he didn't have a very long career with us or evolve into an annual All Pro type, his 2003 and 2004 seasons were as good as we could have hoped for. Recognition or not, he played at an All-Pro level in those seasons.

Finally, the structure of this list is somewhat flawed in that it only includes starters. The Patriots roster, specifically under Belichick, is based on situational football. Therefore I'd allow us to add multiple players for a few positions. At DE under a 4-3, I'd put McGinest ahead of Carter. I'd also find room at LB for Roman Phifer, who may be the most underrated/underappreciated cog from our Championship years. Phifer had 100+ tackles in all of those seasons and excelled at coverage. In many ways, its been his presence that has been the hardest to replace. I'd argue thats its been our LB's deficiencies in coverage that has been the biggest difference between the Super Bowl defenses and the units that have taken the field since then.


Here's my edited list…

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR- Moss
WR- Welker
WR- Brown
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, McGinest
43 DT Washington, Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Wilfork (we've seen Wilfork play DE in 3-4 on numerous occasions)
34 NT Washington, Wilfork
OLB Vrabel, Phifer
OLB McGinest, Jones
ILB Mayo, Spikes (love Spikes against the run)
ILB Bruschi
CB Law, Poole
CB Talib, Samuel
SS Harrison, Milloy
FS McCourty, Wilson

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

 

[Wheelman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason McCourty was so good in his rookie year was because they played a lot of zone?(Which he's good at) I remember McCourty getting burned a lot in the pro bowl where they only play man to man. And 2011 they switched to more man to man, right? Although I felt like he improved his man to man coverage in 2012 it still wasn't that good.

So wouldn't McCourty be better suited at Free safety with his range?

 

[Ring 6]

Great thread!

No issues with the offense now that you corrected the Troy Brown oversight.

On defense, I have differing opinions. When I see this list, I imagine going to battle in Football heaven with the idea of constructing our best team.

1) Ted Washington, IMO, was the greatest NT in the history of the game. Simply put, there has never been another player with his size and ability at the NT position. He was only with us for one short year but if I'm taking this team to battle, we're a better team with him included.

2) McCourty had a great rookie year at CB and is one of my favorite players. I think the criticism he took in subsequent seasons was based mostly on ignorance. He often got blamed for getting burnt when the fault should have been placed on the safeties who blew the coverage. In other times he just fell victim to perfect throws/perfect catches. It happens, especially when the pass rush isn't effective. Having said all that, I think McCourty is better at safety than he was a CB, rookie year included. Talib would be my CB with Assante Samuel the #3. Honorable mention to Tyrone Poole who's 2003 season was outstanding.

On a side note, Milloy's skillsets wouldn't complement Harrison's at S. They're both SS types. I'd put Milloy as Harrison's backup with McCourty as the FS. I also think Eugene Wilson should garner some respect. While he didn't have a very long career with us or evolve into an annual All Pro type, his 2003 and 2004 seasons were as good as we could have hoped for. Recognition or not, he played at an All-Pro level in those seasons.

Finally, the structure of this list is somewhat flawed in that it only includes starters. The Patriots roster, specifically under Belichick, is based on situational football. Therefore I'd allow us to add multiple players for a few positions. At DE under a 4-3, I'd put McGinest ahead of Carter. I'd also find room at LB for Roman Phifer, who may be the most underrated/underappreciated cog from our Championship years. Phifer had 100+ tackles in all of those seasons and excelled at coverage. In many ways, its been his presence that has been the hardest to replace. I'd argue thats its been our LB's deficiencies in coverage that has been the biggest difference between the Super Bowl defenses and the units that have taken the field since then.


Here's my edited list…

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR- Moss
WR- Welker
WR- Brown
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, McGinest
43 DT Washington, Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Wilfork (we've seen Wilfork play DE in 3-4 on numerous occasions)
34 NT Washington, Wilfork
OLB Vrabel, Phifer
OLB McGinest, Jones
ILB Mayo, Spikes (love Spikes against the run)
ILB Bruschi
CB Law, Poole
CB Talib, Samuel
SS Harrison, Milloy
FS McCourty, Wilson

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

Great call with Poole, he was incredible that season.

 

[Tunescribe]

Stephen Neal over Woody. Woody only played one year at guard here and it was left guard (the rest were at center). Neal played right guard eight seasons under BB.

Also, perhaps Heath Evans over Marc Edwards at fullback. Evans played four seasons under BB, Edwards two.

 

[mgteich]

OFFENSE
RG - Neal was Th.e best RG of the Belichick era.
FG - I prefer Evans.
TE - I would add Hernandez in the sprit of situation football (see 43 and 43 on defense)

I don't think there will be a ton of disagreement at most spots, but here is my Patriots "all time" team, from just the BB years. I am doing this off the cuff, so I will make changes if anyone points out playersI overlooked.
The standard is the player at his peak, for example if we were considering Ridley, it would be based upon the 2012 season only, and his fumbling this season would be irrelevant.

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR- Moss
WR- Welker
WR- Brown
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, Carter
43 DT Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Warren
34 NT Wilfork
OLB Vrabel
OLB McGinest
ILB Mayo
ILB Bruschi
CB Law
CB McCourty in his rookie year edges out Samuel
S Harrison
S Milloy

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

I would venture that you could not find any team whose 'best of' during that time frame could come close.

 

[Avenger]

WR would be Moss, Branch, Brown for me, prime branch is better on the outside and Brown would be the slot, his 2001 production while Brady was still inexperienced is what puts him over Wes for me, you take 2001 Brown and put him with the 2007 Brady or 2010 Brady and he puts up better stats.

 

[mgteich]

You have 5 1/2 DL's including McGinist. And a fine group it is!

I would add Phifer and Johnson to the LB corps.

I agree that our two best corners were Milloy and Harrison. But it seems wrong to not have a free safety. I nominate McCourty.

I presume that you list McCourty as a CB just to get him on the team. I would prefer Poole, Talib, Samuel or even Otis Smith opposite Law instead of McCourty. BTW, given situational football, I would note that the 3rd CB plays more than the NT.

QUOTE=AndyJohnson;3661763]

The standard is the player at his peak,


On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, Carter
43 DT Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Warren
34 NT Wilfork
OLB Vrabel
OLB McGinest
ILB Mayo
ILB Bruschi
CB Law
CB McCourty in his rookie year edges out Samuel
S Harrison
S Milloy

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

I would venture that you could not find any team whose 'best of' during that time frame could come close.[/QUOTE]

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Nice list AJ.

Only one's I'd change is Branch over Welker (maybe not a popular choice due to the stats, but Branch was too clutch and produced well enough in the regular seasons). And Stephen Neal would be my RG.

Agree with giving the 2010 DMC the nod at CB2, 2nd best all around CB in the BB era.

 

[JackBauer]

I'd agree.
Also, the best free safety we have had is Eugene Wilson. Milloy was a strong safety so I would consider him a backup to Rodney.

McCourty is better than Wilson, IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

You have 5 1/2 DL's including McGinist. And a fine group it is!

I would add Phifer and Johnson to the LB corps.

I agree that our two best corners were Milloy and Harrison. But it seems wrong to not have a free safety. I nominate McCourty.

I presume that you list McCourty as a CB just to get him on the team. I would prefer Poole, Talib, Samuel or even Otis Smith opposite Law instead of McCourty. BTW, given situational football, I would note that the 3rd CB plays more than the NT.

I was only doing 'starters' so who would you remove for Phifer or Johnson? Johnson was never really a starter on his own team in the BB era, so I don't know how he makes the alltime team.

I have McCourty at corner because his 2010 season was the best of any corner other than Law in the BB era. Again, I am using one season as my criteria, not a career.
Otis Smith never had a season that could hold the jock strap of what McCourty did in 2010.

 

[Ring 6]

Nice list AJ.

Only one's I'd change is Branch over Welker (maybe not a popular choice due to the stats, but Branch was too clutch and produced well enough in the regular seasons). And Stephen Neal would be my RG.

Agree with giving the 2010 DMC the nod at CB2, 2nd best all around CB in the BB era.

Good call on Neal.

 

[Ring 6]

Stephen Neal over Woody. Woody only played one year at guard here and it was left guard (the rest were at center). Neal played right guard eight seasons under BB.

Also, perhaps Heath Evans over Marc Edwards at fullback. Evans played four seasons under BB, Edwards two.

Tune, my criteria was best season, not their Patriot career.
ie if you started one year at the position and it was the best season anyone had, you are ahead, in this analysis of a 10 year starter that never reached that level.

 

[Froob]

I would have Samuel over McCourty at CB.

I would also give serious thoughts of Eugene Wilson over Lawyer Milloy if you are just talking BB years. Wilson was damn good in 03-04 seasons.

What the hell happened to Eugene in 05 onward? Injuries ruin his career?

 

[pazrul72]

Along the lines of this thread what year do you take some of these players? Some are easy like 07 moss 04 Dillon but which Brady do you want? For me it's a toss up between his most video game like year 07 and his most efficient 10. Though I play fantasy football I prefer the real stuff so I would take 10 Brady. Just thinking of an offense with 10 Brady 11 GRONK 07 Moss 04 Branch 01 Brown and 04 Dillon....man that would put up 60 a game on anybody.

 

[Fencer]

I'd just dump the FB position and put in a 2nd TE -- AHern or, if you can't stand to include him, then Grahambo.

We're overloading the middle of the field with receivers a bit -- so what else is new? -- so I'm tempted to go back to Branch over Brown. Brown would of course be a key reserve in that case.

 

[jsull87]

I don't think there will be a ton of disagreement at most spots, but here is my Patriots "all time" team, from just the BB years. I am doing this off the cuff, so I will make changes if anyone points out playersI overlooked.
The standard is the player at his peak, for example if we were considering Ridley, it would be based upon the 2012 season only, and his fumbling this season would be irrelevant.

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR- Moss
WR- Welker
WR- Brown
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, Carter
43 DT Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Warren
34 NT Wilfork
OLB Vrabel
OLB McGinest
ILB Mayo
ILB Bruschi
CB Law
CB McCourty in his rookie year edges out Samuel
S Harrison
S Milloy

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

I would venture that you could not find any team whose 'best of' during that time frame could come close.

Mine is probably:

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR 1 - Moss
WR 2 - Welker
WR 3 - Brown
TE 2 - Hernandez
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, McGinest (IMO him over Carter easy)
43 DT Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Warren/Jones
34 NT Wilfork
OLB Vrabel
OLB McGinest
ILB Mayo
ILB Bruschi
CB Law
CB Samuel/Talib
S Harrison
S McCourty

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

 

[Fencer]

I don't think there will be a ton of disagreement at most spots, but here is my Patriots "all time" team, from just the BB years. I am doing this off the cuff, so I will make changes if anyone points out playersI overlooked.
The standard is the player at his peak, for example if we were considering Ridley, it would be based upon the 2012 season only, and his fumbling this season would be irrelevant.

Single-whole-season peak. OK.

QB- G.O.A.T.
RB- Dillon
FB- Marc Edwards As noted above, use a 2nd TE instead or in addition.
3rd down RB- Faulk
TE- Gronk
WR- Moss
WR- Welker
WR- Brown As noted above, I'd probably play Branch over Brown. But as to who's more distinguished, I agree with this choice.
LT- Light
LG- Mankins
C- Koppen
RG- Woody I'm guessing Neal had a better year than Woody's best Patriots year, but I don't really know.
RT- Vollmer

On defense I will segregate 43 and 34

43 DE Jones, Carter Over Ninkovich? I guess that's OK.
43 DT Wilfork, Seymour
34 DE Seymour, Warren I'd be inclined to kick Wilfork out to LDE and put Washington at NT.
34 NT Wilfork
OLB Vrabel
OLB McGinest
ILB Mayo
ILB Bruschi Can't argue with these in a 3-4. Not a lot of coverage for a 4-3, but even so I can't see, for example, putting Phifer ahead of any of them.
CB Law
CB McCourty in his rookie year edges out Samuel I agree that Talib hasn't even put one healthy year together.
S Harrison
S Milloy For the post Polian-game, it's probably better to have Asante over Milloy, bumping McCourty back to safety.

K Vinaiteri
P Mesko (probably the hardest pick)

PR Edelman
KR Bethel Johnson

I would venture that you could not find any team whose 'best of' during that time frame could come close.

Let's see about challengers (picked because at least they've had some good QB play at times):

Indy -- not sure who they'd have at CB or most OL positions.
NO -- Again a bunch of holes.
SD -- Actually quite a strong contender. But again holes -- most of the OL, WR after Jackson (unless I'm forgetting somebody), etc.

I have even less knowledge of Green Bay.

I wonder, however, whether we're more impressed with all the pretty-good players in NE simply because we're more familiar with them.

 

[Ivan]

Good idea Andy and a good job by you and others. However i wonder if you should take it a step further and turn it into full blown Elect an All Time Belichick Team series of threads starting with nominations for each position and then public voting until you have a full PF.Com team.