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Ainge's record in free agency/trades before this season

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I hope this doesn't turn into another thread where people think others are bashing Ainge, but following the draft, looking aehad to free agency I thought it might be worth reviewing Ainges moves and see how folks rate them outside of the trades and free agent moves throughout his career.

    For a simple summary here's a portion of a Celtics Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Boston_Celtics#Rebuilding_anew:_The_Ainge_years

    I'm interested in seeing whether people think specific moves were good, bad, or a wash:

    My overall feeling looking over this is that the majority of free agent and trade moves were pretty mediocre. But then, there's a lot of mediocre talent in the NBA as well so I'm not exactly faulting Ainge for often trying to do something with nothing, or taking a chance, giving up a good player in the hopes of shaking things up enough to give himself some better ammunution.

    But that being said, there was very clearly no "master plan" that was all designed to bring Garnett and Ray Allen here. Ainge kept shaking up the pieces to the puzzle hoping something good happened, but for the most part were all prety inconsequential. Meanwhile made pretty consistently excellent draft moves, and when his plan A of drafting Oden to continue rebuilding came through, with his back against the wall knowing it was do or die time for his Boston career, he made the big bold move that paid off in a BIG way to bring Allen and Garnett into town. The subsequent trades for quality free agents this past season I think come by way of good role players who wanted to come here.

    But that's just my opinion.

    Now with this year's free agent moves or trades, as with building roster depth last season, I think its clear that with the Big Three Ainge will have good players doing what they can to come here - so I have every confidence this offseason will be solid.
  2. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

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    there was a master plan. that plan was to free up cap space to put the team into a position to go after a big name free agent. that name ended up being Keven garnett. the Celtic's for years were not in a position to sign or go after big name free agents because they were in cap hell. ainge got the team out of that situation. would ainge have gone after kg or ray Allen if the lottery turned out differently? who knows but ainge obviously had a plan of attack if the ping pong balls didn't go the Celtic's way. good GMs factor in all possible scenarios. ainge gets a A from me.
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The plan in the NBA for any quality GM is manage the salary cap, get out from crappy contracts, slowly acquire quality young pieces, then make the blockbuster trades.

    That is what Jerry West did in the late 90's in putting Kobe with Shaq.

    Ainge drafted well every year, remember he had tons of crappy contracts to deal with like Vin Baker's, so it took a few years to get out from under those crappy deals. And we all know we weren't winning with Antoine Walker.
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Ainge had a great year signing free agents in 2008. Examples of great value pickups: Posey, House, Cassell, PJ Brown. Those players all played essential roles in the playoff run. Ainge had a lot of work cut out for him because of the crappy roster and bad cap situation he had to work with coming into Boston.

    Ok so 2008 was pretty much the perfect storm of trades and FA pickups. He's had some bad FA signings before, the one that comes to mind is signing the mediocre Blount to that extension, but he found a way out of it eventually.

    Looking forward to next season, Ainge needs to find a veteran big man to replace PJ Brown who will likely retire, and possibly a PG to replace Sam Cassell if he retires as well.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Ainge's plan was to aquire both chips to trade, and favorable contracts to send with them. The key to all of Dann't early moves, was the aquisition of a 1st round pick. He took on the bad deal of Lafrentz, cuz he got Welsh & a 1st rounder. He fasciliated Wallace to Detroit via Atlanta, cuz he got a first round pick. He sent the #7 pick & Lafrentz to Portland (he didn't like Roy cuz he felt he wasn't a consistent shooter) cuz he wanted the more attractive contract of Theo Ratliff. Oh, and Wally for Davis was another deal where he dumped undesirables, and got a more favorable contract, and a 1st rounder. Remember, Welsh was traded for another first to Cleveland, that became Rajon Rondo. So there was a method to his madness. Suffer early, and move late. Without any of those previous deals, he doesn't have the contracts, or players, to make a deal work. When he went after 1st round picks (volume), he made sure he had a sizable contract he could ship out after they were tradable commodities. Why? Cuz 1st to 3rd year players make peanuts, so you need money to send along. He got lucky in the end, but he totally understands how the league works.
  6. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I think we can all admit that once Ainge had the Big Three here, it got a lot easier to attract quality free agents like Posey, House, Cassell and Brown. I guess looking back, noting how well Ainge has always done in the draft I thought I'd see if he did as well in free agency and trades.

    But in terms of most of Ainge's moves to bring players to a team that wasn't yet a champion contender, I don't find myself as impressed with his free agent moves and trades as I am with his drafts.

    Overall its a pretty mediocre record in my opinion with some hits and a lot of misses:

    Davis, Blount, Szczerbiak, Olowokandi, Telfair, Ratliff, Payton, Atkins, LaFrentz Jones Mihm, Stewart... same with the guys he gave up, though I give Ainge credit for picking up draft picks along the way, especially with his record in the draft.

    I just don't look at that guys that Ainge brought in here with any sense of awe, the way I do with Ainge's draft picks - but again I think that says more about the NBA than anything else... there's a lot of mediocre talent out there that gets moved around and teams don't exactly give up something for nothing.

    For the next 2 years Ainge will have no problem with his pick of the free agent litter.

    How he replaces them with big time players as they retire or move on to keep this team a contender will be important so that we can attract the better free agents rather than deal with the type of guys earlier in Ainge's years as GM.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2008
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Do you think Ainge would have traded Oden or the first pick if he had aquired it as he and everyone hoped?
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I think grading an NBA general manager is difficult at best. They are a slave to the salary cap rules for trading and they are a slave to who is available. Ainge had to work around a lot of dead $$$ being charged to our cap. His ability to turn that dead $$$ eventually into Mihm & Wally and then get rid of Wally & Mihm was huge.

    All of those deadbeats were due to Ainge looking for a needle in the haystack due to the dead $$$. We now have 3 premier salaried players and before we had 2 and a 1/4. The 1/4 being whomever was the 3rd best player on the team who needed to play like a $15 million guy but was only paid like a $6 (hello Marc Blunt, Ricky Davis ... :blahblah:)

    I would love to have seen Ainge not have to work around the dead $$$ created by Vin Baker ... Baker cost us getting that tiltle years ago. What was it like 3 years of dead money with that alchoholic?
  9. Pats Fanatic

    Pats Fanatic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I think that Ainge biggest test will be to keep the Celtics a championship quality team the next few years. Then we will see how good he is (I am hoping real good).
  10. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I guess one of the more interesting things will be the fact that the Big Three each have their contracts run out one after the other. While there's no telling how contract negotiations to keep them here will go, we have the option of replacing each one, one at a time if indeed we think there's a better long term option available.

    My guess would be that Allen might be allowed to walk when his contract is up whereas Garnett and Pierce will be resigned - but who knows what their contract demands will be either.
  11. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

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    the Celtics are going to have a opportunity to sign D wade or labron james . both contracts are up the same year as ray allen. the Celtics championship window will be longer than most think
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  12. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    In 2010, the Nets are also looking at LaBron too, having cleared contracts and gone younger. BUT...put yourself in LaBron's position and assuming (very big assumption BUT) that Celtics play at championship-level caliber for the next two years, would you rather after eight years in the league
    a) Stay in Cleveland where they are playing what Charles Barkley called "that same stupid ( 1 on 5) offense."
    b) Go to NJ where you can try to rebuild....again
    c) Go to NY and play for the Knicks?? No way, Isiah left them in a hole so deep they can see the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
    d) Go to Boston and play with Pierce and Garnett and possibly get a ring like they did after so many years in the league?????

    Six months ago I would have laughing at option D but now.....anything's possible.....
    Oh and Pierce would probably have to take LaBron and his mother out to dinner and be very nice to her and promise that there wouldn't be any more rough fouls if he wore Celtic green...........
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post there Philly ... a 3-pointer ... ;)
  14. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    Getting Lebron to play with Garnett and Pierce would make them unstoppable, a championship for sure, like getting Moss to play with Brady.

    um....wait a minute..... :confused:
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Just cuz the contract is up, it doesn't mean the Celtics will be "under" the cap. Here are the Celtics salaries as currently constituted.

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston.htm

    The Celtics, as of right now, will be at $44 million in obligated contract dollars in the 2010-11 season. I believe the cap is currently at $55 million, with the Luxury Tax threshold at $68 million. So assuming the cap goes up another $5-10 million in the next two years (closer to $5 I say), then the C's would have about $16-21 million to play with. Another option would be a Sign & Trade with Ray Allen and his contract. That's a lot more difficult though. Here is the class in Summer 2010.

    http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2010/

    Those figures could change since it's 2 years away. Whom the C's sign in the next two years, and for how much $$, is what will determine that. For example, resigning Posey to more than 2 years will eat into that cap space in 2010. Or, if the C's are able to lure Maggette in, it would certainly be for extended years at the full MLE. I'd like to think that the C's will be smart enough to protect that space in any new deals they sign with players. Who knows though.
  16. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I think Posey is a priority resign but on a 2 year deal. I'd rather give him some more money up front to keep the deal short and sweet. Gotta keep those future dollars open for the Lebron/Wade sweepstakes.

  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Posey is going to get the full MLE from somebody, maybe the Lakers, and it won't be for 2 years. I'd love to get him for two also, but I don't think it's happening.

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