A true indicator of how good Butler has become...

[JMC00]

What are you disagreeing with @Marqui, Butler's height, or what? Come on, help me out here a little…

I just really don't get the people that continue to cite height and speed as knock on Butler.

 

[mosi's man]

per nfl.com:

Revis: 5'11'' 198lbs

Butler: 5'11'' 190lbs

I don't know what Butler's 40 time is given all the conflicting info. he sure plays fast out there and has, I think, better make-up speed than Revis, even in his prime. Having said that, Revis was a much better player and rarely had to make up for a mistake given that he made so few.

Butler still susceptible to the double move, but really is playing well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

per nfl.com:

Revis: 5'11'' 198lbs

Butler: 5'11'' 190lbs

I don't know what Butler's 40 time is given all the conflicting info. he sure plays fast out there and has, I think, better make-up speed than Revis, even in his prime. Having said that, Revis was a much better player and rarely had to make up for a mistake given that he made so few.

Butler still susceptible to the double move, but really is playing well.

Thats his crack in the egg. He just needs more experience and familiarity with tenenncies and maybe lay back another foot on the tail.

 

[aluminum seats]

I just really don't get the people that continue to cite height and speed as knock on Butler.

Yeah, it's like a reflex.

Look, it'd be great if he were a couple inches taller, why not. But he's extremely athletic and quick, and right in line in his measureables w/other top CBs, so...we should probably put the speed/height narratives to bed. He's a very good cornerback, full stop.

 

[Brady6]

Avg salary, I'd put him in the $8-$9m range

CBs that are currently in that range

Brandon Flowers
Vontae Davis
Kareem Jackson
Chris Harris
Antonio Cromartie
Chris Culliver
Brent Gimes


Players above that range

Talib ($9.5m)
Sam Shields ($9.7m)
Leon Hall ($9.7m)
Brandon Carr ($10m)
Jimmy Smith ($10m)
Maxwell ($10.5m)
Haden ($13.5m)
Sherman ($14m)
Peterson ($14m)
Revis ($14m)

When you look at it now Talib is a real good value. I always go back and forth with if I would rather have had the one year of Revis or 3-4 years of Talib.

 

[JMC00]

one year of Revis or 3-4 years of Talib.

I'll take the 1 year of Revis. With Talib it was fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, but you're not gonna fool me a third time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When you look at it now Talib is a real good value. I always go back and forth with if I would rather have had the one year of Revis or 3-4 years of Talib.

If Talib could stay on the field in big games then its a discussion.

 

[Brady6]

Well you got me there JM. There are a lot more 4.5 CB's out there than most of us would like to believe. But it has never been about the the raw "speed", but rather the acceleration. How fast can the player accelerate to top speed is the real factor (3 cone) That was the ability that allowed the 4.6 Barry Sanders to be one of the GOAT RB's.

In coach speak it's called recovery speed, and is FAR more vital for a DB than his combine 40

I can tell you that Revis after micro-fracture surgery on his knee and heading into his 30s doesn't run a 4.4 forty as he did at the combine 2007 NFL combine. I think a 4.6 would be best case scenario for him.

Butler is plenty fast, he doesn't have blazing straight line speed but he is a twitch athlete who is really explosive.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that Butler is dedicated to being the best player at his position and unlike say a first round pick from a big college Butler did not have access to first class coaching, strength and nutritional coaches, training equipment, etc. He has that now and seems to be making the most of it.

Honestly, I can't remember another player since Tom Brady in 2001 that burst onto the scene and rode that momentum into a starting role and became a top player at his position.

 

[Brady6]

I'll take the 1 year of Revis. With Talib it was fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, but you're not gonna fool me a third time.

I think Revis would have meant more to us if he was on the 2013 team than last years squad. We needed a #1 CB to matchup with the Broncos offense that year. When I reflect on the 2014 playoffs we did not really face an elite WR in his prime that Revis covered. We game planed Hilton.

I think we were smart to invest more in the front 7 this year, because a disruptive pass rush is effective against any offense and a #1 CB is only beneficial if the other teams offense has a big name WR to defend. Look at Revis last Sunday, he was covering Chris Harper, James White, and Brandon Bolden on some plays.

 

[Brady6]

Butler still has along way to go before he reaches Revis' level in his prime. He has certainly become a fine player whto has come a very long way in a VERY short period of time, but he hasn't come close to reaching his ceiling, simply because he hasn't had the time to reach it.

The Revis/Butler comparison is ridiculous right now. Revis after 15 starts wouldn't compare with Revis in his prime,how do you expect Butler to do so. If we keep raising our expectation of Butler to the level I'm seeing here, we are doomed to be disappointed, even if he plays decently.

Lets remember who this kid is. He is undersized. He doesn't have top end speed. He does have top end quickness. Ultimately it is his drive and competitiveness allows his play to exceed his physical gifts, much like Revis has. It is also obvious that like Revis he is a student of the game, but unlike Revis, he is only in the "2nd grade"of his education. He still has a lot to learn and experience

Make no mistake about it. Butler's rise has been nothing short of extraordinary. To come from a division 2 school after a lot of missteps to being a probowl starter ( BTW- mostly because of coaches and player votes) in just 2 seasons is epic. Remember Butler had just one offer from 32 teams, and that offer was to come for a tryout just to see if he would be allowed to be camp fodder, let alone make the team.

So why don't we give the kid a break and allow him the luxury of growing into what he will eventually become. With all the talk about Butler, I can't help be reminded by Dante Hightower's experience. He was lucky that he was the team's second first round draft pick, so his mediocre first season was somewhat forgiven since he was thrust into Mayo's role by his injury. As he learned in his 2nd year, there were a lot fans who started to give him a lot of heat because of another rather lackluster season. Frankly it wasn't until mid season of his 3rd year with the team that he turned the corner and he started to play at the current high level he's displayed. The point being that for even the best players in the league it takes TIME for them to reach .their potential. There is a LOT to learn about being a great NFL player. It very rarely happens in the first couple of years.

Now there are a lot of fans who would rather pay Hightower than Jones, but the fact is that for most of their 4 years with the Pats, that thought would have been laughable. Now it isn't. (though I suspect they will sign both)

This season he has covered Brown, Beckham, and Sanders on and island. He has matched up with them all athletically and those are 3 of the most athletic and fastest WRs in the NFL. Belichick would not be putting an unathletic, slow, and undersized CB on an island with a player like Antonio Brown without any help. Butler's pre draft numbers were from a pro day not the combine they are not reliable enough to define his talent by.

 

[manxman2601]

This season he has covered Brown, Beckham, and Sanders on and island. He has matched up with them all athletically and those are 3 of the most athletic and fastest WRs in the NFL. Belichick would not be putting an unathletic, slow, and undersized CB on an island with a player like Antonio Brown without any help. Butler's pre draft numbers were from a pro day not the combine they are not reliable enough to define his talent by.

Maybe his listed pro day numbers aren't accurate, who knows? But it's safe to say he's not a comparable athlete to Darelle Revis when he came into the NFL. There aren't many who are.

 

[Gronkowski123]

Avg salary, I'd put him in the $8-$9m range

CBs that are currently in that range

Brandon Flowers
Vontae Davis
Kareem Jackson
Chris Harris
Antonio Cromartie
Chris Culliver
Brent Gimes


Players above that range

Talib ($9.5m)
Sam Shields ($9.7m)
Leon Hall ($9.7m)
Brandon Carr ($10m)
Jimmy Smith ($10m)
Maxwell ($10.5m)
Haden ($13.5m)
Sherman ($14m)
Peterson ($14m)
Revis ($14m)

butler will get more than maxwell.

easily

 

[Brady6]

Maybe his listed pro day numbers aren't accurate, who knows? But it's safe to say he's not a comparable athlete to Darelle Revis when he came into the NFL. There aren't many who are.

Revis in 2009-2011 was the best CB to ever step on an NFL field. He hasn't been the same player since the micro fracture surgery. Which isn't uncommon that is a hard surgery to come back, NBA players never make it back most times. Revis coming back to be a top 2-3 player at his position is a feat.

I agree he was a special athlete in 2007.

For fun - if you want to compare an athlete though take a look at Darryl Roberts vs. Revis.. Let's just say having the same initials isn't the only similarity.

 

[manxman2601]

Revis in 2009-2011 was the best CB to ever step on an NFL field. He hasn't been the same player since the micro fracture surgery. Which isn't uncommon that is a hard surgery to come back, NBA players never make it back most times. Revis coming back to be a top 2-3 player at his position is a feat.

I agree he was a special athlete in 2007.

For fun - if you want to compare an athlete though take a look at Darryl Roberts vs. Revis.. Let's just say having the same initials isn't the only similarity.

Yup. Roberts is pretty darn good athletically. Roberts was only 187lbs though and that showed. Hopefully he's bulked out a bit and can be more physical. Revis was 204lbs. Butler, on the hand, has Robert's size but is a lot more physical. Note that I'm not down on Roberts, just that that was the one main weakness I saw with him when I watched him.

Now, OSU's Kevin Peterson (5-11, 190) really reminds me of Butler in all facets of his game. Obviously it's hard to speak to his heart/brain, two of Butler's biggest strengths.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I think Revis would have meant more to us if he was on the 2013 team than last years squad. We needed a #1 CB to matchup with the Broncos offense that year. When I reflect on the 2014 playoffs we did not really face an elite WR in his prime that Revis covered. We game planed Hilton.

I think we were smart to invest more in the front 7 this year, because a disruptive pass rush is effective against any offense and a #1 CB is only beneficial if the other teams offense has a big name WR to defend. Look at Revis last Sunday, he was covering Chris Harper, James White, and Brandon Bolden on some plays.

Revis would've been useful against Steve Smith in the divisional round. Wish he had played that game.

 

[jimnance]

Well you got me there JM. There are a lot more 4.5 CB's out there than most of us would like to believe. But it has never been about the the raw "speed", but rather the acceleration. How fast can the player accelerate to top speed is the real factor (3 cone) That was the ability that allowed the 4.6 Barry Sanders to be one of the GOAT RB's.

In coach speak it's called recovery speed, and is FAR more vital for a DB than his combine 40

patfanken- butler HAS top-end recovery speed. As good as anyone I've seen this year. Even revis noted this last year. Btw- not sure why you went on that long rant in your previous post about revis- butler comparisons. Nowhere in this thread did anyone compare Butler to revis "in his prime". I think most of us know that in his prime revis is one of, if not the best cb all time. But he's not better than butler THIS year. No one was saying Malcolm could be ad good as revis over his career. But the leaps he has made in less than 2 years is amazing. None of us know his ceiling- but he's already a probowler in his first season as a starter. Obviously would need many years of even higher-level play to even approach revised career. But he's as good, if not better, than the 2015 revis.

 

[BritPat]

Butler needs to study as much tape of Revis as possible and put as much work in as possible on film. It's all about technique and reads.

 

[jimnance]

Butler needs to study as much tape of Revis as possible and put as much work in as possible on film. It's all about technique and reads.

And , by all accounts, he does just that. Teammates and coaches have praised his work ethic and called him a film junkie. He has the chance to be a very good cb in the NFL for a long time.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

He just goes out every sunday and balls...if he gets beat..he doesn't let it bother him..and that's what makes him great

 

[RobertWeathers]

Revis in 2009-2011 was the best CB to ever step on an NFL field.

Hmmm. Hes absolutely in the Top 5. Best ever is a great discussion over a beer.

Not sure of the order...

1) Rod Woodson
2) Deion
3) Mel Blount
4) Mike Haynes
5) Derelle

Willie Brown, Darrell Green, Night Train, Charlie Woodson and Champ not in the Top 5 feels unjust.

For fun - if you want to compare an athlete though take a look at Darryl Roberts vs. Revis.. Let's just say having the same initials isn't the only similarity.

Revis is a thicker player but yes- Roberts has all the measureables he did. I CAN NOT WAIT till he plays next year. I think hes special. He did a nice job vs Jordy. Damn shame.