A Top 10 Defense Is Almost Complete

[Schmo]

Ninkovich had major reconstructive knee surgery 6 months ago?

No, he didn't... your point? Murrell looked good. That one play was very exciting. Next........

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I dont think Murrell has jumped over anyone on the depth chart just yet. I agree that whatever the number of OLBs when we line up in a 34 Burgess is the last one on the list to play. However, depending on Cunninghams development he maybe first on the list in sub packages.
...
The only issue I see there is that it seems TBC and JC would each be better suited to get their rest in the base, which would leave Burgess out of the equation.

UNLESS???? I have always thought that the best use for Burgess would be INSIDE in the nickel and dime, rushing from over the G. He did that in Philly (I think he got a sack vs us the SB from that alignment IIRC) and I think he did in Oakland too. I would love to see BB try that. If we have TBC-Wright-Burgess-JC across the DL in nickel/dime, that could be a very effective rush. Burgess moves seem to support that he doesnt need as much open space on the outside to operate as some DEs do.

Interesting thoughts, Andy. I never considered Burgess moving inside in sub packages, rather than finding a role in the base defense. While that is interesting, I hope he can be more than a situational rusher, or we could be running out of roster spots.

I think Murrell was getting reps with the starting unit to see how he fit in the base 3-4 as an OLB. BB has a pretty good idea what Woods and Nink can do. The game against Atlanta should be even more telling, when we see whether Murrell can take on their big RT in the running game. I'm hopeful that with a year of experience in the system, Burgess can work in at OLB in the base 3-4 sometimes. If not, there will be some hard questions balancing run defense, pass rush, and STs. Cunningham has plenty of potential for all these roles, but the pessimist in me worries that he's not ready and that Murrell may only fit ST/sub package, Burgess in the sub package, Woods base 3-4/ST, and Ninkovich third best at all of the above. That would be six roster spots to our DE/OLB spot. Not out of the question, but I'd feel warmer and fuzzier if Woods learned to cover/rush, Burgess learned to cover, Cunningham was showing-up already, or Murrell/Nink/TBC were bigger. Any one of these things would make a big difference for our ability to handle teams who can run/pass with similar effect.

I am concerned about our ability to stop the run (remember how opponents targeted the RE spot last year, forcing the Pats to move Wilfork there at times) and our ability to rush the passer (Banta-Cain had 5 sacks against the turnstile that was the Bills Oline).

:yeahthat: Could Deaderick be the answer by December? Could Brace make the active roster before week 3 of preseason and see if he's a total waste or not? There's no such thing as a cap hit this year, so it's a more likely time to cut losses if he's as useless as the frustrated fan base is starting to think.

 

[QB12]

Lose Wilhite. Keep Sergio Brown.

 

[mgteich]

I choose Option Two. There is an intense competition among Ninkovich, Murrell, Woods, Fletcher and Williams for 2-3 roster spots. The first 3 OLB's and 4 ILB's are secure.

I think that we need 5 OLB's. There are lots of reps for OLB's.

I think the decision is still wide open. I am not all sure who is safest among Ninkovich, Murrell and Woods. However, one preseason game doesn't move Murrell ahead of two incumbants, especially if Cunningham is ready to play. If Cunningham isn't ready, we might keep all three.

OPTION ONE
Our starting OLB is Murrell and our starting RB is Green-Ellis???

OPTION TWO
Or, Belichick used the first preseason game to give both these players their best shot to make the team.

Him taking reps with the 1st defense over Ninkovich in the last 5 TC practices. And getting the starting nod in preseason game 1.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I could easily see Brace getting cut, and I'm almost hoping for it. Just because Ty Warren is out doesn't mean we have to give Brace a "get out of jail free" card. I say Deaderick makes it over Brace.

Maybe Brace pulled his hamstring while he was doing the conditioning test and he could not finish and can not retake it. Lots of Brace hate - why? Do you know something new or do you like to rush to judgment and throw players under the bus? Crable was cut - he has an issue. Brace was not cut - I think we should be balanced and wait to see the real reason why before posting so much hate.

 

[Ring 6]

Him taking reps with the 1st defense over Ninkovich in the last 5 TC practices. And getting the starting nod in preseason game 1.

That doesnt always mean passing on the depth chart. Playing with the 1s is a way to get a better look at a borderline guy too.

 

[Ring 6]

Interesting thoughts, Andy. I never considered Burgess moving inside in sub packages, rather than finding a role in the base defense. While that is interesting, I hope he can be more than a situational rusher, or we could be running out of roster spots.

He only played in sub packages last year and that was 50% of the snaps. He didnt play in the base D, expect in rare calls or emergency and wont this year either. He just is not a 34 OLB.

I think Murrell was getting reps with the starting unit to see how he fit in the base 3-4 as an OLB. BB has a pretty good idea what Woods and Nink can do. The game against Atlanta should be even more telling, when we see whether Murrell can take on their big RT in the running game.

Not sure but its likely.

I'm hopeful that with a year of experience in the system, Burgess can work in at OLB in the base 3-4 sometimes. If not, there will be some hard questions balancing run defense, pass rush, and STs. Cunningham has plenty of potential for all these roles, but the pessimist in me worries that he's not ready and that Murrell may only fit ST/sub package, Burgess in the sub package, Woods base 3-4/ST, and Ninkovich third best at all of the above.

Burgess never played in the base last year and we had 4 OLBS plus him. We will still have 4 plus him, and whether Murrell (or Woods if you believe Murrell is ahead of him) make the team will be a special teams decision

That would be six roster spots to our DE/OLB spot. Not out of the question, but I'd feel warmer and fuzzier if Woods learned to cover/rush, Burgess learned to cover, Cunningham was showing-up already, or Murrell/Nink/TBC were bigger. Any one of these things would make a big difference for our ability to handle teams who can run/pass with similar effect.

Cunningham is 'showing up' he just missed the 1st preseason game due to injury. He has spend a lot of time with the first unit and there are many positive reports of him.
Burgess wont cover, he simply is not an OLB. If he had to be on the field in the 34, it would be at OLB...and I'm sure he will see some reps there in pre-season and maybe 5-10 in the reg season, but he is last on the depth chart. He is here solely to be a pass rusher on the 50% of the plays we are in nickel or dime. Woods knows how to cover/rush. He is just a limited player who isnt that good at any one thing other than s/ts/

:yeahthat: Could Deaderick be the answer by December? Could Brace make the active roster before week 3 of preseason and see if he's a total waste or not? There's no such thing as a cap hit this year, so it's a more likely time to cut losses if he's as useless as the frustrated fan base is starting to think.

I dont know how we can make judgments on Brace when we dont even know why he is sidelined.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I choose Option One. There is an intense competition among Ninkovich, Murrell, Woods, Fletcher and Williams for 2-3 roster spots. The first 3 OLB's and 4 ILB's are secure.

I think that we need 5 OLB's. There are lots of reps for OLB's.

I think the decision is still wide open. I am not all sure who is safest among Ninkovich, Murrell and Woods. However, one preseason game doesn't move Murrell ahead of two incumbants, especially if Cunningham is ready to play. If Cunningham isn't ready, we might keep all three.

OPTION ONE
Our starting OLB is Murrell and our starting RB is Green-Ellis???

OPTION TWO
Or, Belichick used the first preseason game to give both these players their best shot to make the team.

To me, option two seems the most-likely. I think BB wanted to see these guys perform against the other team's first unit. With exception to a few positions, I don't think this is a defensive unit with "starters" and "back-ups." This is a defensive unit, for the most part, with a collection of players that are going to be called upon at different times in different situations against different opponents. Therefore, these guys need to be able to perform against the other teams' best players.

So, again, I think BJGE and Murrell playing with the "ones" was more for evaluation purposes and, yes, "to give both these players their best shot to make the team."

 

[Ring 6]

I choose Option One.

OPTION ONE
Our starting OLB is Murrell and our starting RB is Green-Ellis???

.

Am I misreading this? You believe Murrell is our starting OLB and Green-Ellis our starting RB?Seriously?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Lose Wilhite. Keep Sergio Brown.

What flavor of rope have you been smoking?

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I dont know how we can make judgments on Brace when we dont even know why he is sidelined.

We can't, but Belichik can. I'm just hoping we get to see Brace play again. Injuries can doom a player as much as poor play. With the uncapped year, I'd been thinking BB might try to save real $$, so already spent cap $$ don't affect next year's budget, but reviewing Miguel's page, it looks like there's only $400K this year and there is a $1.1M cap hit next year, if cut. Sounds like roster, PUP, or IR for him with this year and/or next to make it happen.

 

[stinkypete]

I don't see a true top 10 defense just yet. Too many young pieces need to some together at once (Butler, Chung, Spikes, Cunningham). Give it a year.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't see a true top 10 defense just yet. Too many young pieces need to some together at once (Butler, Chung, Spikes, Cunningham). Give it a year.

I dont care where people rate them but if they duplicate last years D result of allowing the 5th fewest points, thats fine by me.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I don't see a true top 10 defense just yet. Too many young pieces need to some together at once (Butler, Chung, Spikes, Cunningham). Give it a year.

I agree with you. I don't know how some go from complaining about a perceived lack of pass rush to thinking this defense is a top defense. Is it just because of a decent performance in the first preseason game?

 

[AzPatsFan]

I agree with you. I don't know how some go from complaining about a perceived lack of pass rush to thinking this defense is a top defense. Is it just because of a decent performance in the first preseason game?

No it is becasue the "problem" at OLB was largely illusionary at best.

We needed Run Defense and BB addressed that very amply in the off-season. Our Defense has to start producing sacks and pressures from the other positions, like they historically did. The ILB quota was way down, the D line quota was way down. The Secondary quota was way down. But G Warren, D Lewis, BSpikes, Mckenzie and PChung all help to address those issues directly.

 

[JSn]

Brace and Burgess on the field together! This is a top 2 D now!

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with you. I don't know how some go from complaining about a perceived lack of pass rush to thinking this defense is a top defense. Is it just because of a decent performance in the first preseason game?

Top 10 isnt an improvement over last year, pass rush and all.
Do you think we are worse than last year?

 

[Ring 6]

Brace and Burgess on the field together! This is a top 2 D now!

I would be there wont be 9 plays all season where they are on the field together, btw.

 

[JSn]

I would be there wont be 9 plays all season where they are on the field together, btw.

I know. I was just feeling a little sarcastic. The pendulum swing of emotions after one "game" is pretty neat to watch.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I don't care where they "rank". They were 5th in points allowed but couldn't stop the Colts or Saints. The only thing that matters is can they come up with a big play when it matters most? Can they step up their game against the elite offenses in the NFL?

Since 2005, it's rare to see this defense do this.