49ers cut ILB Derek Smith

[NormZauchin]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

Some of you guys are not getting it. The Pats need to get younger on defense. What's the point of signing another old guy when the Pats have Bruschi and Seau? If the Pats continue to sign these old castoffs that some people suggest then you can bet that next season will end exactly like the previous two (with the defense gassed and can't come up with a stop at the end).

Agree completely. Nothing wrong with having some cagey old veterans back there, but we have enough of them already. The best teams are usually a blend of youthful athleticism and veteran experience. In the linebacking corp, the Patriots are just too old. Adding any recently cut LB would not help the coverage problem any more than bringing newly minted HOFer Tippett out of retirement.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

Agree completely. Nothing wrong with having some cagey old veterans back there, but we have enough of them already. The best teams are usually a blend of youthful athleticism and veteran experience. In the linebacking corp, the Patriots are just too old. Adding any recently cut LB would not help the coverage problem any more than bringing newly minted HOFer Tippett out of retirement.

The Patriots aren't much of anything but short a starting LB right now. Bruschi and Seau aren't even guaranteed to play at all next season, let alone for the Pats.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

I think maybe you don't get it. BB has coached the Pats for 8 years. In that time he has not invested a high pick in a LB. Ever. In fact, he has not even invested much time to even develop any young LBs -- TBC is the only one even close.

What BB has shown is that he prefers to stock his roster with veteran LBs -- guys who are 26+. Lately, that has skewed more to the 30+ variety.

The man likes veteran LBs. He would obviously rather build his team by restocking vet LBs every 2-3 years than by drafting young LBs.

You really don't need to "get younger" at a position that you prefer to staff with veteran players.

First off, TBC sucked when he was a rookie and he was worthless his last year on the team. I have no problem with veterans that are 26-30, but that is where it needs to end. Did you notice how slow the Pats defense was this year. That is all I'm saying, get faster.

You are the one not getting it. The team has replaced veterans with veterans, not rookies. It's a deliberate move.


And, for the record, I'll take a defense that helps get the team to 18-0 and into the Super Bowl, and then only allows 17 points to the Giants.

The Pats defense played well this year, but it was a lot easier for them when their offense is putting opposing teams in a hole early. They did a very good job on the Giants until 2:30 left in the game. Holding or not, in the grasp or not, Manning was asking to be sacked until he realized the Pats completely whiffed a sack to pretty much end the game. So if your satisfied with that defense don't be surprised when they miss out on the superbowl next year. Teams are getting faster every year, the Patriots coaching staff needs to realize this and I'm sure they will. You have to be pretty naive to think the coaching staff is satisfied with their current situation.

Why can't they bring in vets who are experienced, and bring in some draftee's as well? Signing someone like Zach Thomas wouldn't mean they couldn't also draft Jonathan Goff or another LB.

Sure why not? I don't have a problem with it at all. But where do we draw the line? If they do sign Thomas, then the Pats have to move on without Bruschi or Seau or maybe both.

Maybe you are the one who doesn't get it. The Pats DON'T have Bruschi and Seau. They are BOTH FAs currently.

Also, 33 is YOUNG compared to Seau.

And, finally, you're talking out your arse if you think that the age of the LBers was why the Pats lost the SB.

The Defense wasn't gassed in the SB. Fact is that the offense left too much time on the clock. Not to mention that the defense SHOULD have had the stop on 2 different occasions. One Samuel blew by not making the interception. The other the Refs blew by not calling Manning down when he was clearly wrapped up.

33 is young compared to Seau, you are correct. But, if I'm talking out of my "arse", then the Pats should have easily sacked Manning before his prayer pass to Tyree. Manning curled up because he thought he was going down but somehow with 3 Pats around him, Manning did his best Criss Angel impression. Same with Adalius Thomas, he bull rushes the LT into Manning but then Thomas sudddenly dissapears on the play. What pisses me off the most about the play is that 1.) As Manning breaks free and turns towards the sideline, the front seven just stopped playing as if Manning was just going to throw the ball away but ran after him as soon as he loaded up to throw the prayer 2.) As the ball was in the air, how come the Pats DB's just watched Harrison try to defend that pass? I saw 2-3 other DB's that were in the area that could have come over and helped deflect the pass. But nope, they just watched Harrison one on one. So from my opinion, I don't put all the blame on Harrison. For as long as that pass was in the air and only one guy defended Tyree? Pathetic. Lastly, I'm sorry that the offense wasn't aware being down by 4, needing a touchdown, to take up more off the clock . At that point of the game, they can't choose when they want to score, especially the way the Giants D-Line was playing (notice I only say D-Line instead of defense. Their LB's and secondary basically had the night off). The Pats defense had 5+ minutes to rest, that should have been enough.

In conclusion, you guys are going to have to get over Bill Belicheck's "not drafting a LB in the first round because they won't be able to pick up my system" crap. So you guys are telling me he wouldn't have drafted (if given the opprotunity) DeMarcus Ware? Shawne Merriman? Patrick Willis? Please. The reason why he doesn't draft LB's in the first round is because he hasn't had the opprotunity to do so. Sure they could've drafted Beason but I guess they had a higher grade on Merriweather. Or flash back 2 years ago, everyone though that Carpenter was going to be a Pat but that didn't happen because Dallas did the Pats a favor. Even if Carpenter were available, the Pats still would have passed on him. Your probably thinking "easy for him to say", but I was the few that didn't think Carpenter was anything special and benefited from A.J. Hawk doing all the damage. Bottom line, no matter what position it is (except QB) the Pats will draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE according to their grading. With that said, they will draft Vernon Gholston if available to play OLB.

 

[JDP111]

No thanks.

 

[pats63]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

Calvin Pace, Calvin Pace Calvin Pace, but one must admit, Calvin Pace. If the Pats Calvin Pace, Calvin Pace Calvin Pace Calvin Pace. Although Calvin Pace, Calvin Pace Calvin Pace, and of course, Calvin Pace. In retrospect, Calvin Pace, and naturally, Calvin Pace.

I don't know Calvin Pace what the Calvin Pace is at the Calvin Pace spot, but it's good to see we're Calvin Pacing the right questions.

Calvin Pace,

PFnV

What about Calvin Pace????:rocker:

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Crap, it ate a long post.

Yes, we can get a Willie Mac type here. He is officially listed at OLB for 2007, and has stats as good as McGinest, granted in a Whisenhunt 3-4, not a Belichick 3-4. The only year Willie Mac was the better player (on paper, I know, that doesn't show a lot of things, but still...) was 1996, the 11 sack year. The solo tackles (though kept by the team, not the league,) were impressive to me this year, at 80. He added 6.5 sacks, a forced fumble, an INT, and 6 passes defensed. He was a so-so Defensive End, until they stood him up as an OLB... read all about it...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6354

So yes, that gives you another guy at OLB, but a young one, at 28. Almost a tyke by Belichickian standards.

You also have a team (Arizona) that is stuck with 16.5 M going to Fitzgerald and a deal to get done with Karlos Dansby.

I don't see upgrading at ILB. I see upgrading by freeing up our in/out changelings, Vrabel and AD.

Bru, Seau, Z. Thomas (?)/or [your name here] are available for full-time inside duty. Colvin and Pace are available at pure outside LB. And speaking of versatility, can it really hurt to have an extra emergency DE, even if he is too small to really excel at that position?

We can't realistically upgrade this unit in the short term. It is a very good unit, talent wise, but old. We can realistically improve its ability to rotate guys in and out to keep the old guys fresher. We can also continue to add in parts as we prepare for the long-haul future. That's exactly what we did last year with AD.

Who do we really see at ILB that you'd want to put on the field instead of the guys we already have available to play ILB? If we don't get a definite "yeah that gets us better" in that exercise, we have a couple of inside/outside options that get us better by proxy if/when we get better/deeper at OLB.

In other words, I don't see either linebacking area as an area of crisis. I see them both as areas of creeping age/need. In that situation, I'd much rather see what's coming out (in FA more than the draft), and pick what's most compelling in the batch.

The point that "most fans want to see" the Pats get quicker/more athletic at LB isn't lost on me, but isn't the last word either. I guess it's a matter of what BB and company want to see.

I find it hard to look at a rising star who only excelled when he got stood up at OLB in a 3-4, has great size and skills, and has stats to back all that up... and think, "no thanks, we need to get quicker."

What we need is to field 4 healthy and talented guys on every play, preferably with enough rest to continue to excel (oh yeah did I mention, we are really good as it stands?)

He seems the best fit in terms of raw talent, for what we do, and for a long time. I love the Z Thomas pickup too, if we actually pull it off.

In closing, Calvin Pace.

Yours in Calvin Pace,

PFnV

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

That's the thing, I thought fans wanted to get faster/more athletic at LB? Pace isn't faster or more athletic than either Colvin or AD. Maybe he could rotate with Vrabel, but NE could draft a rookie to rotate with Vrabel. He is interesting, but considering his ability (and limitations) I wouldn't pay him top dollar to play OLB in NE's 3-4. If you want to get faster and more athletic at LB there is going to be a guy named Groves sitting at the backend of round one or the top of round two. At 6'3" 250lbs he runs a 4.43 forty, and notched 26 QB hurries in 2007, while playing through dislocated toes. He's also a team leader, plays with an attitude, has great pursuit, and a non stop motor.

I'm another of those guys that says production in college at LB just doesn't seem to predictably translate to pros, at least in our FO's mind... hence the FA focus (for me.)

All kidding aside, I think I can back off the Calvin Pace mantra... I just see the on field, proven measurables we love seeing here, and find it hard to say "nah, I heard there's this really good guy in the draft this year." As I said above, I think you can address LB to the extent you need to by bolstering either positions, because we are blessed with 2 guys who can play inside or outside. I have no problem w/additional moves at either ILB position. But we bolster depth on the outside, and make 2 very good versatile guys available at inside positions, with the Pace move:

Outside: Pace Colvin
Inside: Bru Seau Z. Thomas (?)

Can shore up either: AD Vrabel

Sure there are other possibilities out there, both draft and FA... this just strikes me as a pretty nice nucleus. I don't know that we "need to get" anyhing at LB... we just need to have guys that can play, every year. That translates (perhaps) to younger, when it can happen. Pace gets you that.

But do we really need a track team at the LB position? Not from where I'm sitting.

PFnV

 

[sebman2112]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

I'm another of those guys that says production in college at LB just doesn't seem to predictably translate to pros, at least in our FO's mind... hence the FA focus (for me.)

All kidding aside, I think I can back off the Calvin Pace mantra... I just see the on field, proven measurables we love seeing here, and find it hard to say "nah, I heard there's this really good guy in the draft this year." As I said above, I think you can address LB to the extent you need to by bolstering either positions, because we are blessed with 2 guys who can play inside or outside. I have no problem w/additional moves at either ILB position. But we bolster depth on the outside, and make 2 very good versatile guys available at inside positions, with the Pace move:

Outside: Pace Colvin
Inside: Bru Seau Z. Thomas (?)

Can shore up either: AD Vrabel

Sure there are other possibilities out there, both draft and FA... this just strikes me as a pretty nice nucleus. I don't know that we "need to get" anyhing at LB... we just need to have guys that can play, every year. That translates (perhaps) to younger, when it can happen. Pace gets you that.

But do we really need a track team at the LB position? Not from where I'm sitting.

PFnV

Please stop talking about Vrabel as an OLB/ILB. He's already said he doesn't like playing ILB, and it's pretty obvious that he's more effective at OLB.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Sorry if you've linked to the quote you're referencing, Sebman, but can you link to it once again for me? I'm not saying he didn't say this, I am sure he did. But there's a difference between expressing a preference and being so adamant about it that it makes it difficult to make use of his versatility.

Granted, that puts him in the pure OLB role, if in fact his preference is strong enough that it's tantamount to a refusal to alternate those positions... which would put the team in a different position as outlined above:

Pure OLB: Vrabel Pace Colvin
Pure ILB: Bru Seau Z. Thomas (?)
Inside/Outside: AD

I'd still put Vrabel at inside/outside regardless of preferences, because in an emergency he'd do it, if nothing else as payback for getting to play tight end at the goal line.

PFnV

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

interest in derek smith?? for what? going to his retirment party? no we dont want him. we want to get younger.
i am intriqued by the calvin pace discussion. that might be a good option, but i really dont know much about him.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't mind picking up anybody that can play, but ultimately, I have to agree, when we can get younger we should, so we don't end up with a year where the bottom suddenly drops out.

 

[Anatnom]

I must say that as I Niner fan, I like the idea of the Pats signing D. Smith.

 

[captain stone]

I must say that as I Niner fan, I like the idea of the Pats signing D. Smith.

Was he really that bad?

 

[Anatnom]

Was he really that bad?

the worst part were the 1000's of "Get rid of D. Smith" threads we've had to endure on the Niner MB over the years.

 

[BPF]

Smith is off the market.

www.profootballtalk.com

SMITH LANDS IN SAN DIEGO
POSTED 4:42 p.m. EST, February 24, 2008

Well, we'll have to take Derek Smith out of the official PFT dumpster.

The veteran linebacker signed a contract on Sunday with the Chargers, less than a week after being cut by the 49ers.

Smith had spent seven seasons in San Fran. As a reader pointed out to us, he originally was drafted by the Redskins in 1997, at a time when Chargers coach Norv Turner was the head coach in D.C.

 

[JackBauer]

Oh thank GOD. Derek Smith is HORRIBLE.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Oh thank GOD. Derek Smith is HORRIBLE.

Agreed and WE WANTED HIM! Even more frightening!

 

[captain stone]

Re: 49ers Cut Lb Derek Smith

First off, TBC sucked when he was a rookie and he was worthless his last year on the team. I have no problem with veterans that are 26-30, but that is where it needs to end. Did you notice how slow the Pats defense was this year. That is all I'm saying, get faster.



The Pats defense played well this year, but it was a lot easier for them when their offense is putting opposing teams in a hole early. They did a very good job on the Giants until 2:30 left in the game. Holding or not, in the grasp or not, Manning was asking to be sacked until he realized the Pats completely whiffed a sack to pretty much end the game. So if your satisfied with that defense don't be surprised when they miss out on the superbowl next year. Teams are getting faster every year, the Patriots coaching staff needs to realize this and I'm sure they will. You have to be pretty naive to think the coaching staff is satisfied with their current situation.



Sure why not? I don't have a problem with it at all. But where do we draw the line? If they do sign Thomas, then the Pats have to move on without Bruschi or Seau or maybe both.



33 is young compared to Seau, you are correct. But, if I'm talking out of my "arse", then the Pats should have easily sacked Manning before his prayer pass to Tyree. Manning curled up because he thought he was going down but somehow with 3 Pats around him, Manning did his best Criss Angel impression. Same with Adalius Thomas, he bull rushes the LT into Manning but then Thomas sudddenly dissapears on the play. What pisses me off the most about the play is that 1.) As Manning breaks free and turns towards the sideline, the front seven just stopped playing as if Manning was just going to throw the ball away but ran after him as soon as he loaded up to throw the prayer 2.) As the ball was in the air, how come the Pats DB's just watched Harrison try to defend that pass? I saw 2-3 other DB's that were in the area that could have come over and helped deflect the pass. But nope, they just watched Harrison one on one. So from my opinion, I don't put all the blame on Harrison. For as long as that pass was in the air and only one guy defended Tyree? Pathetic. Lastly, I'm sorry that the offense wasn't aware being down by 4, needing a touchdown, to take up more off the clock . At that point of the game, they can't choose when they want to score, especially the way the Giants D-Line was playing (notice I only say D-Line instead of defense. Their LB's and secondary basically had the night off). The Pats defense had 5+ minutes to rest, that should have been enough.

In conclusion, you guys are going to have to get over Bill Belicheck's "not drafting a LB in the first round because they won't be able to pick up my system" crap. So you guys are telling me he wouldn't have drafted (if given the opprotunity) DeMarcus Ware? Shawne Merriman? Patrick Willis? Please. The reason why he doesn't draft LB's in the first round is because he hasn't had the opprotunity to do so. Sure they could've drafted Beason but I guess they had a higher grade on Merriweather. Or flash back 2 years ago, everyone though that Carpenter was going to be a Pat but that didn't happen because Dallas did the Pats a favor. Even if Carpenter were available, the Pats still would have passed on him. Your probably thinking "easy for him to say", but I was the few that didn't think Carpenter was anything special and benefited from A.J. Hawk doing all the damage. Bottom line, no matter what position it is (except QB) the Pats will draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE according to their grading. With that said, they will draft Vernon Gholston if available to play OLB.

I smell what you're cooking, esp. re: Ellie's Escape in the SB. There is just no effin way that he should not have been sacked. Almost every effin play that gained yardage on that effin drive could have/should have been avoided.