43 Defense in 2008?

[RayClay]

Thank you.
I think that BB is working toward a major emphasis to the 43 Defense this year.
#1 I think our personnel is geared more toward a 43 this year. Our strength is our D line. We could line up Seymore and Warren on the ends, with Wilfork and either Smith or Wright in the middle. Jarvis Green can fill in.
#2 There are more and more teams moving to a 34 D so that leaves alot of good 43 players out there. We could probably get a better player for the money on the FA market and in the draft.
#3 The top of this years draft features 2 awsome DL Dorsey and Ellis and 1 may drop to number 7
#4 Our D is smart enough to make the switch since they run the 43 about 20% of the time now (this is a guess)
#5 Our LB situation would go from an area of need to an area of strength. Bruschi in the middle of Thomas and Vrable would be sweet and if we go after Briggs that would be equitable to the Moss move last year.
#6 We could spend the 2008 draft letting Capers build his secondary.

Seymour and Warren on the ends? Do you know how a 4-3 defense works?

Our three laterally quick linebackers covering all that ground are Bruschi Thomas and Vrable?

 

[cornhuskers_2002]

It would be a crappy 4-3 . we would be able to stop the run but not get any pass rush.

 

[RayClay]

It would be a crappy 4-3 . we would be able to stop the run but not get any pass rush.

The quarterback could eat a sandwich and order from the dessert menu.

Every three yard pass to Addai or Leon Washington would go for at least 40 yards, depending on the secondary.

 

[RayClay]

I do think we're going for some kind of hybrid with quicker LBs or more flexibility.

We couldn't possibly be more built for a 3-4 though.

I'd like to see AD go right to the old McGinest swing role and they could play with him and Green as the DEs and Seymour only on a switch.

We need some freaking linebackers though, it's ludicrous.

 

[jeffbiologist]

There is good news. Now that the Jets and Miami are going to be playing 3-4(Miami will eventually I think) they have to completely retool their defense.....Today they could lose 2 top 15 draft picks for 4th round picks because they simply dont FIT Mangenius' defense. It will take them YEARS to complete this, and we will be kicking their ass the whole time. The real good thing could be he loses the job in a few years and they have to retool BACK to what they are now,,,,,how are we lucky enough to be in a division with these guys, Miami(need I say more), and Buffalo drafting guys like Losman and McGahee?? Wake me up when we get to the playoffs..

 

[Rob0729]

There is good news. Now that the Jets and Miami are going to be playing 3-4(Miami will eventually I think) they have to completely retool their defense.....Today they could lose 2 top 15 draft picks for 4th round picks because they simply dont FIT Mangenius' defense. It will take them YEARS to complete this, and we will be kicking their ass the whole time. The real good thing could be he loses the job in a few years and they have to retool BACK to what they are now,,,,,how are we lucky enough to be in a division with these guys, Miami(need I say more), and Buffalo drafting guys like Losman and McGahee?? Wake me up when we get to the playoffs..

Well, the Jets have been in a 3-4 for two years now. Granted they have been trying to form-fit a lot of 4-3 guys into roles they aren't suited for.

The Dolphins have been switching between a 4-3 and 3-4 since Saban came aboard.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thank you.
I think that BB is working toward a major emphasis to the 43 Defense this year.
#1 I think our personnel is geared more toward a 43 this year. Our strength is our D line. We could line up Seymore and Warren on the ends, with Wilfork and either Smith or Wright in the middle. Jarvis Green can fill in.

Sorry, but that isn't the case at all. Seymour and Warren are both DTs in a 4-3 situation. As is Wilfork. Green is a heavy for a 4-3 DE but not overly so. Who do they line up on the other side?

#2 There are more and more teams moving to a 34 D so that leaves alot of good 43 players out there. We could probably get a better player for the money on the FA market and in the draft.

You do realize that this is also a false statement. The 49ers played about 50/50 3-4 and 4-3. The Jets, Steelers, Chargers, and Cowboys are the only other teams playing the 3-4. No other teams are using the 3-4. In fact, Houston dropped the 3-4. And, with the Jets going after Kris Jenkins, it seems that they may be moving more to a 4-3 than a 3-4 situation.

#3 The top of this years draft features 2 awsome DL Dorsey and Ellis and 1 may drop to number 7

So what? Neither Dorsey nor Ellis are 3-4 NTs. They are better suited as 4-3 DEs. Also, the Pats are more likely to trade down and pick up extra picks than they are to stay at number 7.

#4 Our D is smart enough to make the switch since they run the 43 about 20% of the time now (this is a guess)

#5 Our LB situation would go from an area of need to an area of strength. Bruschi in the middle of Thomas and Vrable would be sweet and if we go after Briggs that would be equitable to the Moss move last year.

Bruschi does NOT have the sideline to sideline speed that is needed from a MLB. Bruschi of 2001 had that speed, but the 2008 Bruschi does not.

Sorry, but the LB corps wouldn't change. It will still be an area of need. In fact, i'd contest that you'd actually make the situation worse because you take some of your best players off the field since Warren, Seymour and Wilfork are 4-3 DTs and one of them would have to be on the sidelines in the 4-3.

#6 We could spend the 2008 draft letting Capers build his secondary.

The Pats can do both. The Pats can add quality LB and CB talent in the draft without trading down.

 

[DaBruinz]

It is easier to field 3 Quality LB's than 4. and I believe that there are alot more 43 LB's in FA than 34 LB's. We need (2) 34 LB's Now. If we go to 43 we need 1 fast guy in the middle

You clearly don't have enough of a grasp of the differences between the 3-4 and the 4-3.

In fact, you saying that the Pats only need "1 fast guy in the middle" is a clear indication you are clueless about it.

While there may be more "4-3 LBs" in Free Agency, that doesn't mean that they are Patriots type players or that they have the abilities to initergrate into the Pats system.

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand what you are saying but they play 4-3 sometimes anyway, usually to good effect. Also, in 2001 I seem to remember players like Seymour, Bruschi, and Vrabel playing in the 4-3 pretty effectively. The loss of Colvin as an OLB pass rusher works into this as well. I just think it may be an option, I am not making a real case for it or a solid prediction, just wouldn't surprise me.

When was the last time that the Pats ran the 4-3 on any sort of regular basis that you can say that they ran in effectively? The last time I remember was 2004. That's 4 years ago. Bruschi doesn't have the speed he used to. Neither does Vrabel for that matter. Also, when the Pats played the 4-3, Seymour was playing on the INSIDE at DT along side Warren or Ted Washington.

 

[DaBruinz]

Awesome points....sounds pretty accurate

Actually, its anything but accurate. In fact, its wrong on so many points that it shows you don't understand much about the differences between the 3-4 and the 4-3.

 

[PullaRandyMoss81]

I thought having a 3-4 was mostly used to maximize your front 7 speed as a unit and create confusion upfront. We've given confusion throughout the year, but speed is a big issue. If we don't get a couple speed linebackers I'd like to chang to a 4-3. No point in having a 3-4 if it doesn't do what its supposed to do. I say the 3-4 is supposed to have more speed because linebackers are ushually smaller and faster, where as D-backs are fat and slow (ushually but not always) Thats why sometimes I wished we had rosevelt colvin in the super bowl. He would have added speed and maybe would have sacked elis ass if he were there.

 

[Pats726]

Thank you.
I think that BB is working toward a major emphasis to the 43 Defense this year.
#1 I think our personnel is geared more toward a 43 this year. Our strength is our D line. We could line up Seymore and Warren on the ends, with Wilfork and either Smith or Wright in the middle. Jarvis Green can fill in.
#2 There are more and more teams moving to a 34 D so that leaves alot of good 43 players out there. We could probably get a better player for the money on the FA market and in the draft.
#3 The top of this years draft features 2 awsome DL Dorsey and Ellis and 1 may drop to number 7
#4 Our D is smart enough to make the switch since they run the 43 about 20% of the time now (this is a guess)
#5 Our LB situation would go from an area of need to an area of strength. Bruschi in the middle of Thomas and Vrable would be sweet and if we go after Briggs that would be equitable to the Moss move last year.
#6 We could spend the 2008 draft letting Capers build his secondary.

How is the personnel geared to a 4-3?? Especially when in the last years the team has been acquiring players for teh 3-4?? Changing overnight?? Doesn't make sense at all...There are only a FEW 3-4 teams..and a better player for the money?? MOST of the NFL is after 43 linemen and LBs..so a better chance?? So vecause of 2 players..rookies..the team changes it's base D..doesn't make sense. Bruschi in the MLB position?? Doesn't work. If THAT by chance happened..I think they would be using the draft for MANY positions... NOT happening...way way too many changes and NOT good ones. i DO think they MAY play more 4-3..but that is a far cry from a base 4-3.

 

[DaBruinz]

I thought having a 3-4 was mostly used to maximize your front 7 speed as a unit and create confusion upfront. We've given confusion throughout the year, but speed is a big issue. If we don't get a couple speed linebackers I'd like to chang to a 4-3. No point in having a 3-4 if it doesn't do what its supposed to do. I say the 3-4 is supposed to have more speed because linebackers are ushually smaller and faster, where as D-backs are fat and slow (ushually but not always) Thats why sometimes I wished we had rosevelt colvin in the super bowl. He would have added speed and maybe would have sacked elis ass if he were there.

The problem is that your understanding isn't correct. The Pats used the 3-4 to Maximize the different options they have to rush the passer. Typically, 3-4 LBs are bigger and not as fast as 4-3 LBs, particularly at the ILB position. This is because the ILB has to regularly take on a guard and the extra 20 lbs they have helps them do that.

The 4-3 is the where the LBers are smaller and faster. In both cases, the CBs skill sets aren't affected.