PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

2014 Draft Prospect Thread


One thing I wanted to mention about mobile quarterbacks: all things being equal, if you ask me, a quarterback that can scramble is less likely to be injured than a quarterback who can't. First of all, I'm not talking about read option. That's putting yourself in danger in exchange for yards, and, although the play is extremely effective, I'm cautious about using it unless I have Cam Newton (more on that in a moment). The thing about a quarterback that can scramble is that if you can scramble effectively and consistently slide to avoid a hit, the opposing pass rush can't be aggressive. The defensive ends MUST get outside contain on every play, because, if they don't, they know the quarterback will scramble for a big gain. They can't be effective as pass rushers, since if they are too aggressive as pass rushers the quarterback will be able to scramble. So the first positive impact is less aggressive pass rush schemes. After that, if you can really rush, the defense may consider even using a spy on the quarterback, which means one less guy rushing the passer. Again, your quarterback is less likely to be hit.

There's no denying that mobile quarterbacks tend to get injured more often. But I believe people are wrong as to why that's the case. Mobile quarterbacks are constantly injured because most of them are skinny. Mike Vick is 6'0, and generously listed at 215lbs. He doesn't have the size and the strength to take hits. Robert Griffin is 220lbs. The Seahawks saved their read option plays for late in the season simply because Russell Wilson can't take a beating at 206lbs (that's a huge problem). I feel slightly comfortable with Kaepernick taking a couple hits at 230lbs, but he looks very skinny on film. There aren't many durable statue quarterbacks under 225lbs. Most of them have had perfect O-lines (Ryan, Brees, Eli). Rodgers, maybe Dalton, are exceptions (Dalton hasn't been around enough to say yes for sure). Cutler gets injured. Kevin Kolb. Matt Cassel is pretty skinny. Alex Smith.

But there is one quarterback who is durable and a frequent ball carrier: Cam Newton. He is durable because he is huge. 6'5, 248lbs. The durability and strength, combined with his athleticism, makes him the best physical specimen of any quarterback in the NFL. Built like a tight end, takes hits like one too. He's a guy who I don't feel the need as a coach to ask him to slide when he scrambles.

Regarding Teddy Bridgewater, his inability to use his athleticism is why I think he's a bit overrated. Teams feel comfortable sending 5 guys and ignoring outside contain against him because he seems unable to use his 4.65 40 to scramble effectively. He's 220lbs. He's not really big enough to take a hit. He has to make the defense think twice before sending the house, or he will have injury issues in the NFL. At this point, he hasn't shown me much of an ability to do so. Until then, he's slightly overrated.
 
Went and actually watched a full game of Anthony Barr today and didn't come away as impressed as I thought I was going to be.

Pros: Extremely fast and quick. Ran down alot of plays where most normal linebackers would not have. Extremely versatile. Some plays he's got his hands on the ground, sometimes he's standing up, sometimes he's out covering a slot receiver, sometimes he's covering a TE. I was actually very impressed with his coverage skills, more so than I thought I would be. Has a very good understanding of the game. Came off some blocks to make plays on swing passes and screens. Pretty good run defender.

Cons: First off, he's alot more lean and lacks the size/strength that I was expecting. He REALLY struggled to get off blocks once engaged. His pass rushing moves are limited to a speed rush or a spin move. Spent ALOT of time on the ground; like an inordinate amount of time for a premier pass rusher. Ran himself out of plays, lost contain on the QB more than a few times.

Cliffnotes: I came away not nearly impressed as I thought I would be. Really struggled to create a consistent pass rush. Couldn't get off blocks. Limited pass rush repertoire. Good in coverage. I just don't know that I see at Top 5 or 10 pick. Thoughts?
 
But there is one quarterback who is durable and a frequent ball carrier: Cam Newton. He is durable because he is huge. 6'5, 248lbs. The durability and strength, combined with his athleticism, makes him the best physical specimen of any quarterback in the NFL. Built like a tight end, takes hits like one too. He's a guy who I don't feel the need as a coach to ask him to slide when he scrambles.

The less he slides the more likely he is to take a damaging hit, why not have him slide?
 
Went and actually watched a full game of Anthony Barr today and didn't come away as impressed as I thought I was going to be.

Pros: Extremely fast and quick. Ran down alot of plays where most normal linebackers would not have. Extremely versatile. Some plays he's got his hands on the ground, sometimes he's standing up, sometimes he's out covering a slot receiver, sometimes he's covering a TE. I was actually very impressed with his coverage skills, more so than I thought I would be. Has a very good understanding of the game. Came off some blocks to make plays on swing passes and screens. Pretty good run defender.

Cons: First off, he's alot more lean and lacks the size/strength that I was expecting. He REALLY struggled to get off blocks once engaged. His pass rushing moves are limited to a speed rush or a spin move. Spent ALOT of time on the ground; like an inordinate amount of time for a premier pass rusher. Ran himself out of plays, lost contain on the QB more than a few times.

Cliffnotes: I came away not nearly impressed as I thought I would be. Really struggled to create a consistent pass rush. Couldn't get off blocks. Limited pass rush repertoire. Good in coverage. I just don't know that I see at Top 5 or 10 pick. Thoughts?


I agree but then I wasn't a great fan of Dion Jordan either.
 
Gil Brandt has posted his top 100 seniors.

While he's probably redundant for the Pats, everyone should watch this guy. real fun:

9. Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo
Mack (6-2 5/8, 245) will most likely be the highest draft pick in the history of University of Buffalo football. Defensive end Gerry Philbin was a third-round selection, No. 19 overall, by the New York Jets in the 1964 AFL Draft. In the modern era, the New England Patriots made offensive tackle Ed Ellis a fourth-round pick (No. 125 overall) in the 1997 NFL Draft. In 2012, Mack led the Bulls in tackles (94), tackles for loss (21) and sacks (eight). He is coached by Lou Tepper, who has coached three Butkus Award winners in the past: Colorado's Alfred Williams and Illinois' Dana Howard and Kevin Hardy.

Meet UB Football's Khalil Mack - YouTube


Hot 100 seniors: OTs Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan rank at top - NFL.com
 
The less he slides the more likely he is to take a damaging hit, why not have him slide?

I really don't care if Cam Newton gets hit. His size gives him so much durability, and, if he can break a tackle, then he's doing good things.
 
what's everyone's opinion of Will Sutton DT ASU? and also cbs has kyle van noy at 35 in their rankings he is someone i would love to get
 
what's everyone's opinion of Will Sutton DT ASU? and also cbs has kyle van noy at 35 in their rankings he is someone i would love to get

Both Van Noy and Mack are two LBers that I love but that's the problem, they're the same type of player as Jamie Collins and having taken two LBers high the last two years, I really don't think we'll go there again.
 
yeah completely agree our LB core is really good so theres not really a need maybe a 3rd/4th rounder but not too much of a reason to go 1st or even 2nd round at corner someone id like to get though is Ed Reynolds from Stanford if Wilson doesnt work out id really like us to go for a top ranking safety instead of hoping mid round mystery selections work out i hope they do but at this point im not sure

edit: Ed Reynolds cant declare this year nevermind
 
Last edited:
yeah completely agree our LB core is really good so theres not really a need maybe a 3rd/4th rounder but not too much of a reason to go 1st or even 2nd round at corner someone id like to get though is Ed Reynolds from Stanford if Wilson doesnt work out id really like us to go for a top ranking safety instead of hoping mid round mystery selections work out i hope they do but at this point im not sure

edit: Ed Reynolds cant declare this year nevermind

Why can't he declare?
 
Hundley looks really good. I've only seen him throw about 3 deep balls so far, and they were all bad, which is a red flag, but, most of the time, the guy looks like Russell Wilson with good size. Needs to keep his eyes downfield when he scrambles, but incredible elusiveness in the pocket and shocking accuracy. Just destroys zone coverage
 
what's everyone's opinion of Will Sutton DT ASU? and also cbs has kyle van noy at 35 in their rankings he is someone i would love to get

He is too small. Reminds me of klecko a bit. Dan not Joe.
 
He probably won't declare for the draft, but Terron Ward is very interesting. Solid bulk for a 5'7 running back and ridiculous quickness and speed.

Edit: got interested too quickly. He accelerates instantly and can change directions, but he lacks long speed
 
what's everyone's opinion of Will Sutton DT ASU? and also cbs has kyle van noy at 35 in their rankings he is someone i would love to get

Haven't seen too much of him, but he looks incredibly out of shape when wearing pads. Yet he moves extremely well and has good strength. He doesn't have the build of an athlete, but he performs like one. Hardly know what to make of it yet.

Edit: Charles Barkley comes to mind
 
Manxman, I can see why you think Morris is overrated, but I also understand why people are infatuated with him. His second throw in the Virginia Tech game left me stunned. 62 yards on the fly (Pythagorean theorem, luckily appeared to go exactly the distance of the hash marks sideways and 60 yards forward) and 2.715 seconds hang time. By my calculations, the ball's average speed was 55.4 mph. However, that neglects friction and air resistance. That's a big deal. When they say a baseball is "thrown 100 mph" that means it was 100mph hour when it left the player's hand. I've read that it's going 90 by the time it reaches the plate. The average velocity is 95. And that pitch has about .434 seconds of hang time. Air resistance isn't as strong with slow moving objects as it is with fast moving objects, but it's stronger with objects that aren't particularly dense (and a football isn't as dense as a baseball). Those two aspects probably come close to canceling each other out, but the additional hang time almost certainly means that the difference between average velocity and initial velocity is probably bigger than that of a baseball. All things considered, that pass was probably going 65mph when it left his hand, which puts him ahead of Brett Favre. Facts like that make scouts drool. I would agree he's a bit overrated, but there are legitimate reasons as to why many people are enamored with him.
 
Manxman, I can see why you think Morris is overrated, but I also understand why people are infatuated with him. His second throw in the Virginia Tech game left me stunned. 62 yards on the fly (Pythagorean theorem, luckily appeared to go exactly the distance of the hash marks sideways and 60 yards forward) and 2.715 seconds hang time. By my calculations, the ball's average speed was 55.4 mph. However, that neglects friction and air resistance. That's a big deal. When they say a baseball is "thrown 100 mph" that means it was 100mph hour when it left the player's hand. I've read that it's going 90 by the time it reaches the plate. The average velocity is 95. And that pitch has about .434 seconds of hang time. Air resistance isn't as strong with slow moving objects as it is with fast moving objects, but it's stronger with objects that aren't particularly dense (and a football isn't as dense as a baseball). Those two aspects probably come close to canceling each other out, but the additional hang time almost certainly means that the difference between average velocity and initial velocity is probably bigger than that of a baseball. All things considered, that pass was probably going 65mph when it left his hand, which puts him ahead of Brett Favre. Facts like that make scouts drool. I would agree he's a bit overrated, but there are legitimate reasons as to why many people are enamored with him.

Mackenzie:

Actually, based on some googling, they don't cancel out: the drag coefficient for a baseball appears to be about 0.3, while the drag coefficient for a football is about 0.05 (it's less dense, but it's better "designed" for travel point-first). Plus the drag force is proportional to the velocity squared. So while the football is in the air longer, on a per-second basis the drag force on a baseball is about 20 times larger.
 
Mackenzie:

Actually, based on some googling, they don't cancel out: the drag coefficient for a baseball appears to be about 0.3, while the drag coefficient for a football is about 0.05 (it's less dense, but it's better "designed" for travel point-first). Plus the drag force is proportional to the velocity squared. So while the football is in the air longer, on a per-second basis the drag force on a baseball is about 20 times larger.

Fair enough. That wasn't covered in my physics class. Still, it's nearly 7 times as much hang time.
 


Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
Back
Top