2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

[ATippett56]

Eric Moore is probably the best #5 OLB in the league. Seriously, what do you expect from a #5 OLB?

Yes, we need to add a stud OLB.

Eric Moore didn't perform worth a damn against the New York Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game. The fact that the New England Patriots defense did not sack Mark Sanchez once with a backup right tackle illustrates the serious need to upgrade. The youth movement seriously needs to continue at the 3-4 outside linebacker position.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Eric Moore didn't perform worth a damn against the New York Jets in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game. The fact that the New England Patriots defense did not sack Mark Sanchez once with a backup right tackle illustrates the serious need to upgrade. The youth movement seriously needs to continue at the 3-4 outside linebacker position.

Moore got injured during the game.

 

[ATippett56]

Moore got injured during the game.

By keeping Eric Moore on the roster is maintaining the status quo. Eric Moore is not the long term solution and padding one's stats against the Chicago Bears offensive line is not impressive whatsoever. I certainly hope the New England Patriots draft a 3-4 outside linebacker with the first three picks in the 2011 NFL Draft.

 

[DW Toys]

Well it's like I said. The guy will be a UFA. So the Jets can't "commit" to anything besides franchising him at this point. Depending on where the cap comes in, franchising him may be tough. As for comparing him to Mayo, I think Harris is a more complete player. Mayo is a tackling machine. One of the reasons he's got so many tackles is because he plays on the same team as Guyton, TBC, Ninkovich, etc.

As for Spikes, I don't have anything against him (besides the blown coverage on the 58 yard pass to Cotchery). I just don't want to count on him as a sure fire starter given that he's a work in progress on the field, and off the field he's exhibited poor judgment on a number of occasions and already has 1 strike against him with the NFL office.

Cousin, How do you feel that WR Cotchery should have been Spikes man? He was in that zone and Cotchery went deeper. We had our Safety who was fifteen yards deeper than that. Why? I would assume you are a fan of said Safety who had a decent year but is as much a pass liability as Spikes methinks.
Cotchery always kills us. He was the slot guy. Why on earth would BB even think that Spikes could one up on him? A zone deal that went south quickly. Two mistakes. Too shallow on Spikes and way, way too deep on the Safety. Look at the tape. He would need a taxi cab to get to Cotchery.
DW Toys

 

[RobertWeathers]

By keeping Eric Moore on the roster is maintaining the status quo. Eric Moore is not the long term solution and padding one's stats against the Chicago Bears offensive line is not impressive whatsoever. I certainly hope the New England Patriots draft a 3-4 outside linebacker with the first three picks in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Agreed. I was citing that Moore was invisible during the NYJ game b/c he was hurt in the 2nd qtr.

With that said, however it is done - via draft, trade, FA if this defense does not add 2-3 impact players on the front 7 this team regardless of their regular season record is not a SB contender.

 

[DW Toys]

Eric Moore is probably the best #5 OLB in the league. Seriously, what do you expect from a #5 OLB?

Yes, we need to add a stud OLB.

I have to agree. Maybe not a starter but Moore has versatility and seems to make plays. Good find on the Pats personnel staff. He does not reduce our need for at the least two more OLB/DE sign-ups.

Personally I like Kerrigan and FA Manny Lawson, who has become a superb cover guy, but still had twelve sacks the last three years and he is the Niners cover LB.

I still think Von Miller is special, but won't be there so I would not mind adding Cameron Jordan at DE to help the OLB group.
DW Toys

 

[mgteich]

Why not cut Cunningham; he's the status quo?

Seriously, we have five OLB's. If we use our resources and find TWO upgrades, that's fine. One addition seems the most likely scenario (plus a DE upgrade). I see no reason why Moore wouldn't make the roster as our #9 LB (5th OLB).


Cunningham
open (like Cunningham, will likely be give half a year to develop)
Ninkovich
Banta-Cain (backup and top special teamer)
Moore/Murrell

By keeping Eric Moore on the roster is maintaining the status quo. Eric Moore is not the long term solution and padding one's stats against the Chicago Bears offensive line is not impressive whatsoever. I certainly hope the New England Patriots draft a 3-4 outside linebacker with the first three picks in the 2011 NFL Draft.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Cousin, How do you feel that WR Cotchery should have been Spikes man? He was in that zone and Cotchery went deeper. We had our Safety who was fifteen yards deeper than that. Why? I would assume you are a fan of said Safety who had a decent year but is as much a pass liability as Spikes methinks.
Cotchery always kills us. He was the slot guy. Why on earth would BB even think that Spikes could one up on him? A zone deal that went south quickly. Two mistakes. Too shallow on Spikes and way, way too deep on the Safety. Look at the tape. He would need a taxi cab to get to Cotchery.
DW Toys

Hmm I thought he was Mayo's man to pick up. Must've read the coverage wrong. TY for the insight

 

[ATippett56]

Why not cut Cunningham; he's the status quo?

Seriously, we have five OLB's. If we use our resources and find TWO upgrades, that's fine. One addition seems the most likely scenario (plus a DE upgrade). I see no reason why Moore wouldn't make the roster as our #9 LB (5th OLB).


Cunningham
open (like Cunningham, will likely be give half a year to develop)
Ninkovich
Banta-Cain (backup and top special teamer)
Moore/Murrell

The jury is still out on Jermaine Cunningham with his best played game against the Baltimore Ravens. Banta-Cain is a one trick pony and he is on the downslope of his career. Moore and Murrell are just another guys. The New England Patriots need to draft two 3-4 outside linebackers in the 2011 NFL Draft with at least one preferably with their first three picks. Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers while the rest are expendable.

 

[bucky]

Mayo dropped off the face of the Earth after his year two injury. Him getting the nod might have been about stats, but it wasn't about name recognition. He beat out the guys with the name recognition. Harris did not.

As for calling out Curran, I don't know what you're basing your claim on.

Harris is weak in the passing game. He's a downfield attacker. Mayo isn't a great pass defender, but he's much better than Harris. Maybe you've got Harris confused with a different linebacker?

A starting guard is much more important than what is a relatively minimal upgrade at ILB, especially if you're dropping $7 million plus on the decision.

A LB that plays every down is more valuable that a Guard. They're harder to find and harder to cover up for. But we can agree to disagree on this. In the end, Harris probably gets a huge contract from the Jets cause he's their best front 7 defender.

 

[ATippett56]

I still think Von Miller is special, but won't be there so I would not mind adding Cameron Jordan at DE to help the OLB group.
DW Toys

Von Miller is too small to play outside linebacker for the New England Patriots and Cameron Jordan is overrated.

 

[bucky]

Cousin, How do you feel that WR Cotchery should have been Spikes man? He was in that zone and Cotchery went deeper. We had our Safety who was fifteen yards deeper than that. Why? I would assume you are a fan of said Safety who had a decent year but is as much a pass liability as Spikes methinks.
Cotchery always kills us. He was the slot guy. Why on earth would BB even think that Spikes could one up on him? A zone deal that went south quickly. Two mistakes. Too shallow on Spikes and way, way too deep on the Safety. Look at the tape. He would need a taxi cab to get to Cotchery.
DW Toys

I didn't say Spikes had him 1-1. Cotchery ran right through Spikes' zone. Unfortunately, Spikes bit hard on the play action and was not in position. Thus a 6 yard play turns into 60.

 

[ATippett56]

A LB that plays every down is more valuable that a Guard.

Aside from Logan Mankins, the only starter on the New England Patriots offensive line under the age of 30 is Sebastian Vollmer. The New England Patriots current roster situation dictates Logan Mankins is more valuable to the New England Patriots organization than a free agent inside linebacker.

In the end, Harris probably gets a huge contract from the Jets cause he's their best front 7 defender.

Then it's a moot point.

 

[bucky]

Aside from Logan Mankins, the only starter on the New England Patriots offensive line under the age of 30 is Sebastian Vollmer. The New England Patriots current roster situation dictates Logan Mankins is more valuable to the New England Patriots organization than a free agent inside linebacker.

Connoly is under 30. He started practically every game this year. And I'd say he performed better at his position than the Spikes/Guyton duo at ILB. We've been looking for a solid ILB since Phifer retired 6 years ago - guys like Adalius and Monty Beisel, and pulling Seau out of retirement time and time again. Filling in at LG will be a lot easier - I can guarantee that.

 

[ATippett56]

Connoly is under 30. He started practically every game this year.

Connolly sucks and was abused in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game.

And I'd say he performed better at his position than the Spikes/Guyton duo at ILB.

You're out of your mind. The New England Patriots have a far greater need at the 3-4 outside linebacker position than the 3-4 inside linebacker position.

Filling in at LG will be a lot easier - I can guarantee that.

No the Patriots have to fill the right guard position and what you propose is left guard position as well. None of the New England Patriots backup interior lineman are starting material: Connolly, Wendell, Ohrnberger, Ojinnaka.

 

[Deus Irae]

A LB that plays every down is more valuable that a Guard. They're harder to find and harder to cover up for. But we can agree to disagree on this. In the end, Harris probably gets a huge contract from the Jets cause he's their best front 7 defender.

The bolded part is not an accurate statement. It would be a player-by-player evaluation, rather than a question of position v. position. It also doesn't explain why you'd make such a poor decision regarding Harris, since he wouldn't be an every down linebacker in BB's system.

 

[JackBauer]

Other than QB, is there an area right now on the Patriots that requires less urgent attention than ILB?

 

[ATippett56]

Other than QB, is there an area right now on the Patriots that requires less urgent attention than ILB?

There is no need whatsoever to expend a 2011 NFL Draft pick on a quarterback, tight end, or inside linebacker.

 

[bucky]

Connolly sucks and was abused in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game.

The first part of your comment explains why the second one is so wrong. You clearly dislike Connoly and approach the game that way. I saw Connoly give up 1 sack, but he was solid the rest of the game. Is he a great OL? No. Can you play and win with him? Yes. Meanwhile, the Guyton/Spikes duo contributed nothing positive and gave up 2 huge plays - Tomlinson TD and 60 yard catch by Cotchery.

Now, to the crux of my entire point - it's a lot easier to upgrade a guy like Connoly at the G position, that it is to upgrade at ILB.

You're out of your mind. The New England Patriots have a far greater need at the 3-4 outside linebacker position than the 3-4 inside linebacker position.

I agree. Not sure what the OLB position has to do with this discussion at all though.

No the Patriots have to fill the right guard position and what you propose is left guard position as well. None of the New England Patriots backup interior lineman are starting material: Connolly, Wendell, Ohrnberger, Ojinnaka.

IMO, if we bring back Light, we'll be just fine at Guard with the combination of Neal, Connoly, Kaczur, Wendell, and a 2nd round draft pick. On the other hand, if we bring back both Light and Mankins, we're set at OL for 2011. But I'm not going to argue this point any further because this is a LB thread.

 

[bucky]

The bolded part is not an accurate statement. It would be a player-by-player evaluation, rather than a question of position v. position.

You can evaluate player by player, but the top ILBs are still paid more than the top OGs.

It also doesn't explain why you'd make such a poor decision regarding Harris, since he wouldn't be an every down linebacker in BB's system.

Harris has been a 3 down player for the Jets since he entered the league - playing for Mangini as well as Ryan. As for BB, he used the same ILBs on all 3 downs back when he had dependable ones - Bruschi and Phifer. Against the Jets, it was Mayo and Fletcher on 3rd downs. You can't tell me Harris wouldn't be an upgrade there.