2011 Offseason Outlook - Linebacker

[RobertWeathers]

A lot of people seem to think we're set at ILB, but I actually think this position can be upgraded quite a bit.

Spikes is a real question mark at this point - being out of shape after the suspension, not playing well in the playoff game, his overall judgment with the sex tape and all the other stuff I mentioned. He's also flat out a liability in coverage and 1 poor judgment from being suspended for a full year. Guyton is just not a full time LB.

Spikes may not be the sharpest knife in the draw but I'm not ready to throw him out quite yet. Set aside the mistakes off the field, he had a very good rookie year. Need to stick with him. Dane Fletcher is a hidden gem in this group. I agree with the Guyton assessment. So does BB.

The guys I'd love to see us get is David Harris. He's a 3 down player, excelled in Mangini's system, and has managed to keep his mouth shut in that loudmouth locker room. Only thing is - I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets franchise him, as he's the best player in their front 7.

Harris is a very good player but IMO, if dollars are going to be spent, the team needs to spend the dollars on a pass rush.

 

[bucky]

Spikes may not be the sharpest knife in the draw but I'm not ready to throw him out quite yet. Set aside the mistakes off the field, he had a very good rookie year. Need to stick with him. Dane Fletcher is a hidden gem in this group. I agree with the Guyton assessment. So does BB.

Harris is a very good player but IMO, if dollars are going to be spent, the team needs to spend the dollars on a pass rush.

Don't want to throw out Spikes. He can still play the Ted Johnson role. The team needs 3 ILBs. Agree on Fletcher as well, but he may not evolve as a 3 down player for a while still.

The question on Harris will definitely be $$$. But the Pats should be in position to get 2 Mankins-level contracts, be it at G, ILB, OLB, or DE.

 

[Deus Irae]

A lot of people seem to think we're set at ILB, but I actually think this position can be upgraded quite a bit.

Spikes is a real question mark at this point - being out of shape after the suspension, not playing well in the playoff game, his overall judgment with the sex tape and all the other stuff I mentioned. He's also flat out a liability in coverage and 1 poor judgment from being suspended for a full year. Guyton is just not a full time LB.

The guys I'd love to see us get is David Harris. He's a 3 down player, excelled in Mangini's system, and has managed to keep his mouth shut in that loudmouth locker room. Only thing is - I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets franchise him, as he's the best player in their front 7.

Bob Glauber of Newsday thinks Harris’ re-signing is a given. The Jets have already “committed” to re-signing him, which could cost upwards of $9 million-per-season.

David Harris, Antonio Cromartie may take precedence over Jets wideouts | ProFootballTalk

$9 million for a guy who's not as good as Mayo. No thanks.

As for Spikes, is it really surprising that a rookie coming off of a 4 game suspension AND a bye week would struggle a bit in his first game back?

 

[JackBauer]

ILB is one of the deeper positions on the team. Not sure why you'd want to throw money at an overrated David Harris.

 

[scout]

How about the kid from BC? He was pretty good before the ordeal he had to go thru. Don't know alot about him other then I liked to watch him play a couple years ago. Hopefully his health problems are over and he continues with his life.

 

[VJCPatriot]

TBC didn't quit on the team, the team just didn't give him enough 3rd and long opportunities to do his thing.

Really, is that why the Pats were the worst in the league in 3rd down conversions allowed on defense? Not enough TBC huh. Let's not kid ourselves. Putting aside any talk of whether or not he 'quit', TBC is still a mediocre OLB at best. We overpaid him based on his one season with 10 sacks. I don't see him repeating those numbers.

If anything, I believe that Cunningham has room for improvement, but TBC has pretty much hit his ceiling in the Pats system. I look for the Pats to go hard after a guy like Tamba Hali or Lamarr Woodley in free agency.

The draft looks like a crapshoot for OLBs yet again. I see our best value and safest bet as a stud DE who can pressure by collapsing the pocket on passing plays. Right now it looks to me like JJ Watts could be our target. What little I've seen of him looks quite impressive. Ideal frame and body size at 6'6 300lbs, long arms, nonstop motor, sudden when closing on the ballcarrier or QB, mentally alert and hustles (just look at those fumble recoveries and the kick block). I would be pretty happy with Watts at #17.

 

[BlueThunder]

The big question is...Will Watts be available at #17 ?

It always amazes me when I pick someone that I think BB will be targeting and in the WHOLE draft, not one ever gets drafted by the Pats....

If I do actually (purely luck) get one right, I can't believe it...most of the time I'm caught by surprise...

Last year.....Gronkowski was the only one I had listed as a possible pick....and that's only because we know how much BB values that position..

With 3 picks out of the first 33....does ANYONE have a clue who BB drafts with the first 3 picks he has? I sure as hell don't...:bricks:

 

[RobertWeathers]

How about the kid from BC? He was pretty good before the ordeal he had to go thru. Don't know alot about him other then I liked to watch him play a couple years ago. Hopefully his health problems are over and he continues with his life.

Herzlich has more guts and heart that can't possibly be measured.

I follow BC football pretty closely and read the other day that he needed surgery to strengthen a leg bone. My assumption is that they needed to remove some bone from the cancer he had. Thats great from a life-standpoint (caught it early enough..), but from a NFL prospect's standpoint, unfortunately that raises a lot of doubt surrounding the stability of that leg. Chemo has a funny effect on bones. Thats why doctors prescribe calcium supplements.

If he kept growing and added a few more LBs he was a 2nd rounder for sure- maybe a late 1st. Now? Just don't know.

Someone will take a chance on him and they will be a better team for it.

 

[bucky]

David Harris, Antonio Cromartie may take precedence over Jets wideouts | ProFootballTalk

$9 million for a guy who's not as good as Mayo. No thanks.

As for Spikes, is it really surprising that a rookie coming off of a 4 game suspension AND a bye week would struggle a bit in his first game back?

Well it's like I said. The guy will be a UFA. So the Jets can't "commit" to anything besides franchising him at this point. Depending on where the cap comes in, franchising him may be tough. As for comparing him to Mayo, I think Harris is a more complete player. Mayo is a tackling machine. One of the reasons he's got so many tackles is because he plays on the same team as Guyton, TBC, Ninkovich, etc.

As for Spikes, I don't have anything against him (besides the blown coverage on the 58 yard pass to Cotchery). I just don't want to count on him as a sure fire starter given that he's a work in progress on the field, and off the field he's exhibited poor judgment on a number of occasions and already has 1 strike against him with the NFL office.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

It's a rough draft. The Pats need an OLB, but there just aren't any standout prospects. Quinn has a few red flags. Aldon Smith has an agent that Bill hasn't worked with in five years. Ayers is soft and can't rush the passer. Von Miller is as close to Chung's size as he is to Cunningham's. Houston's length is iffy. Who's left, Kerrigan? That's about it.

If, as expected there is a rookie wage scale for 2011, it changes everything for BB. Then he could care less if the first round pick was represented by Condon or the football equivalent of Scott Boras.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well it's like I said. The guy will be a UFA. So the Jets can't "commit" to anything besides franchising him at this point. Depending on where the cap comes in, franchising him may be tough. As for comparing him to Mayo, I think Harris is a more complete player. Mayo is a tackling machine. One of the reasons he's got so many tackles is because he plays on the same team as Guyton, TBC, Ninkovich, etc.

As for Spikes, I don't have anything against him (besides the blown coverage on the 58 yard pass to Cotchery). I just don't want to count on him as a sure fire starter given that he's a work in progress on the field, and off the field he's exhibited poor judgment on a number of occasions and already has 1 strike against him with the NFL office.

I don't know what you're claiming for "complete", but Mayo and Patrick Willis were voted to the All-Pro team (first team) this year. That's usually a pretty good thing. Harris, on the other hand, didn't make either the first or second team.

Again, Mayo's a better player than Harris. I'm not seeing any reason for the team to pay $9 million per year to a lesser player than Mayo just to add an ILB where one's not really needed.

 

[mgteich]

I just checked the calendar. It's still January. Many of us anticipated players picked in last year's draft. Check out the draft board on about April 25th, you'll find lots of names that will be drafted that weekend.

The difficulty is knowing who will be available when we pick and what trades will be made.

Certainly McCourty, Grankowski, Spikes, Hernandez and Mesko were not surprises at all.
Most were surprised with Cunningham over Dunlop, and Price over some of the other receivers. We had Belichick choosing between McCourty, Wilson and Jackson, but many, many had McCourty as one of the top 3 or 4 possibilities.

The big question is...Will Watts be available at #17 ?

It always amazes me when I pick someone that I think BB will be targeting and in the WHOLE draft, not one ever gets drafted by the Pats....

If I do actually (purely luck) get one right, I can't believe it...most of the time I'm caught by surprise...

Last year.....Gronkowski was the only one I had listed as a possible pick....and that's only because we know how much BB values that position..

With 3 picks out of the first 33....does ANYONE have a clue who BB drafts with the first 3 picks he has? I sure as hell don't...:bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

I just checked the calendar. It's still January. Many of us anticipated players picked in last year's draft. Check out the draft board on about April 25th, you'll find lots of names that will be drafted that weekend.

The difficulty is knowing who will be available when we pick and what trades will be made.

Certainly McCourty, Grankowski, Spikes, Hernandez and Mesko were not surprises at all.
Most were surprised with Cunningham over Dunlop, and Price over some of the other receivers. We had Belichick choosing between McCourty, Wilson and Jackson, but many, many had McCourty as one of the top 3 or 4 possibilities.

I dont think anyone was talking about a corner. I know I mentioned it as a need I thought was 1st round material, and pretty much everyone on the board disagreed with me.

 

[mgteich]

???
There were several posts the week before the draft suggesting that the choice was between Odrick and a corner. I posted at least 2 threads with that subject myself. At least 2 posters chose McCourty. I was on the fence, and refused to guess which of the four Belichick would ultimately choose (Odrick or one of the 3 corners).

Many, many folks thought the likelihood of a 1st round OLB was small and that we would wait until the early second (or very late first). We wanted Spikes, but I don't recall anyone choosing Cunningham.

I dont think anyone was talking about a corner. I know I mentioned it as a need I thought was 1st round material, and pretty much everyone on the board disagreed with me.

 

[bucky]

I don't know what you're claiming for "complete", but Mayo and Patrick Willis were voted to the All-Pro team (first team) this year. That's usually a pretty good thing. Harris, on the other hand, didn't make either the first or second team.

Again, Mayo's a better player than Harris. I'm not seeing any reason for the team to pay $9 million per year to a lesser player than Mayo just to add an ILB where one's not really needed.

First, as I'm sure you know, All-Pro voting is done by a bunch of media who do more writing, blogging, and tweeting than actually watching football - like Tom Curran. It's based on stats and name recognition more so than true performance on the field.

Second, I'm happy to agree that Mayo had an excellent year this past year and may turn out to have a better career than Harris. However, Harris has been very consistent over his entire 4 year career and is probably a bit better in the passing game right now.

Third, I never suggested giving him $9 mil/year. Last year's franchise tag for LBs was $9.7 mil, including OLBs like Ware, Suggs, etc. At $9 mil/year, Harris would probably be in the top 2 or 3 highest played ILBs in the NFL. I would not want him at that price any more than I want Mankins to be one of the 2-3 highest paid Guards. But that figure comes from a tweet by a newsday reporter who did not sight any sources. We don't really know what Harris wants, do we? If it was more like $7 mil/year, I would rather give that much money to an ILB than a Guard. And if the Jets choose to franchise him for $10 mil, let them do it.

 

[jah]

Woodley isn't going anywhere, guys. I think Moore does TBC's job better than TBC, so the OLBs should look something like:

Cunningham
Ninkovich
Moore
Rookie/FA

 

[ATippett56]

Potential 3-4 Outside Linebackers for the 2011 New England Patriots defense:

Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
Justin Houston, Georgia
Akeem Ayers, UCLA
Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma
Sam Acho, Texas

 

[Deus Irae]

First, as I'm sure you know, All-Pro voting is done by a bunch of media who do more writing, blogging, and tweeting than actually watching football - like Tom Curran. It's based on stats and name recognition more so than true performance on the field.

Mayo dropped off the face of the Earth after his year two injury. Him getting the nod might have been about stats, but it wasn't about name recognition. He beat out the guys with the name recognition. Harris did not.

As for calling out Curran, I don't know what you're basing your claim on.

Second, I'm happy to agree that Mayo had an excellent year this past year and may turn out to have a better career than Harris. However, Harris has been very consistent over his entire 4 year career and is probably a bit better in the passing game right now.

Harris is weak in the passing game. He's a downfield attacker. Mayo isn't a great pass defender, but he's much better than Harris. Maybe you've got Harris confused with a different linebacker?

Third, I never suggested giving him $9 mil/year. Last year's franchise tag for LBs was $9.7 mil, including OLBs like Ware, Suggs, etc. At $9 mil/year, Harris would probably be in the top 2 or 3 highest played ILBs in the NFL. I would not want him at that price any more than I want Mankins to be one of the 2-3 highest paid Guards. But that figure comes from a tweet by a newsday reporter who did not sight any sources. We don't really know what Harris wants, do we? If it was more like $7 mil/year, I would rather give that much money to an ILB than a Guard. And if the Jets choose to franchise him for $10 mil, let them do it.

A starting guard is much more important than what is a relatively minimal upgrade at ILB, especially if you're dropping $7 million plus on the decision.

 

[ATippett56]

Woodley isn't going anywhere, guys. I think Moore does TBC's job better than TBC, so the OLBs should look something like:

Cunningham
Ninkovich
Moore
Rookie/FA

Eric Moore is a JAG and the outside linebacker position needs serious upgrading.

 

[mgteich]

Eric Moore is probably the best #5 OLB in the league. Seriously, what do you expect from a #5 OLB?

Yes, we need to add a stud OLB.

Eric Moore is a JAG and the outside linebacker position needs serious upgrading.