2010 NFL MVP Debate (merged several times)

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Should be sealed: Tom Brady as MVP

I agree. As much as I want Mike Vick to do well, if he's getting in Tom's way, well, I'm glad he got destroyed against . . . the Vikings!

Welcome to the board, Mr President!

 

[pherein]

Call me cynical. Call me old-fashioned. But Vick remains a sad creation of handlers and enablers ($$$ vampires and the ADD video-game/fantasy football crowd) who have blown enough smoke up the public's arse to convince folks that this soulless creep has "rehabilitated and redeemed himself." Even our own damn president stupidly and naively has bought in. I don't buy it for a second. And thank goodness that his true colors as a player were laid bare on the national stage last night for all to see. The charade is over. Meet Michael Vick, same as the old Vick.

Preach on tuna, this is not a good person. We dealt with him for years, and know how to beat him on the field. He might be New to NFL, he's not new to us.
He's not fooling anyone down here. Vick will show his true face when he has a 70 million dollar contract, until then he'll play the media. MVP would be crime.

 

[Fball]

Opinions vary on the sincerity of Vick's regret & turnaround. It will always be just a matter of personal opinion whether it's real; I'm a huge dog lover, and couldn't stand him a year ago. But I DO think it's real, and I believe in redemption & second chances. He seems like a changed man every time I see him.

As far as the MVP, it hasn't really been in doubt for well over a month now. Brady has just played out of his mind. Vick has been excellent, but it hasn't really been close. The media just needs to keep people interested, and likes a story. Kind of like when there are 5 minutes left in a game and a team is up by a few scores & clearly going to win, but the announcers will focus on the smallest possibilities of a comeback just to keep viewers on that channel...

 

[37Harrison]

Not to take this thread of track but should Cassel get more love for MVP than Vick? One could argue that he is more important to his team than Vick and the Chiefs won their division.

A quick comparison of their stats this year:

Vick
Pass Rtg: 100.2
Comp %: 62.6
Pass Yards: 3,018
TD's: 21
INT's: 6
Fumbles: 11
Fumbles Lost: 3
*Record: 8-4

Cassel
Pass Rtg: 98.8
Comp %: 60.2
Pass Yards: 3,001
TD's: 27
INT's: 5
FBL's: 3
FBL's Lost: 1
*Record: 10-4

*Record is determined by games started. Out of the 3 games Vick didn't start, the Eagles won 2. The 1 game that Cassel didn't start, the Chiefs lost and were shutout 31-0.

 

[JR4]

Call me cynical. Call me old-fashioned. But Vick remains a sad creation of handlers and enablers ($$$ vampires and the ADD video-game/fantasy football crowd) who have blown enough smoke up the public's arse to convince folks that this soulless creep has "rehabilitated and redeemed himself." Even our own damn president stupidly and naively has bought in. I don't buy it for a second. And thank goodness that his true colors as a player were laid bare on the national stage last night for all to see. The charade is over. Meet Michael Vick, same as the old Vick.

I can't judge whether he is rehabilitated or not. How can you get inside
the guys mind.
I believe in second chances ... everyone makes mistakes.

But I also believe people need to accept the consequences of their actions.
He paid a debt in prison that's true but it goes beyond that.

If I get caught cheating on my wife, she might forgive me but I will
loose her unconditional trust. Which is the way it should be.
If a preacher commits adultery, he/she may be forgiven but there should
be a consequence ... he/she should lose the right to be in a position of
trust again.
In the case of Vick or Jimmy Swaggart I think many people did not want
to lose the image they had of the man so they are willing to ignore
that should be long term consequences for such violations of public trust.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I can't judge whether he is rehabilitated or not. How can you get inside
the guys mind.
I believe in second chances ... everyone makes mistakes.

But I also believe people need to accept the consequences of their actions.
He paid a debt in prison that's true but it goes beyond that.

If I get caught cheating on my wife, she might forgive me but I will
loose her unconditional trust. Which is the way it should be.
If a preacher commits adultery, he/she may be forgiven but there should
be a consequence ... he/she should lose the right to be in a position of
trust again.
In the case of Vick or Jimmy Swaggart I think many people did not want
to lose the image they had of the man so they are willing to ignore
that should be long term consequences for such violations of public trust.

Its pretty sad watching him psycho babble about someone he's never been in the same room with. And 100% of everything he knows about said player and said incident are second hand. Dude had a bad game, In an otherwise remarkable season. With atl He was soo one dimensional... now he is not. It's that simple he needs to change those blocking assignments upfront and make pre-snap reads or he will never be a champion.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

We are one and the same on this Vick should never get any awards, and should just be happy to be playing. We dealt with Vick for years and are still of the mind he is putting on an act until he gets a contract. Its our opinion, and we don't buy it.

What he did, takes a super human disrespect for life. Im not sure how you reach that point in your life were the suffering becomes "matter of fact", Im sure most of us could not even approach the cruelty it takes, it mind numbing. To think prison reformed him or that he ok now, is naive. Anyone that does this has mental damage.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

There are better people and candidates, that have not gone to Vicks extremes.
Brees really deserved a decent shot at the MVP in 2008,2009, didn't get it. Hes just not doing it this year and dosnt deserve it. Our vote is with TB. It would be a crime again if he didn't get it, and person like Vick was even considered. And thats not Pats homerish to us the list is

1. T.Brady
2. M. Cassel
3. T. Polamalu
4. Rivers
5. J. Mayo
6. A. Samuel
7. D. Brees ( only reason hes on this list, is he played with a mcl injury)
8. C. Johnson
9. C. Mathews
10. shoot out between M.Turner and M. Ryan

You cannot punish on-field success for off-field issues. Especially after the state of VA says he's paid for his crimes and The commissioner of the NFL has re-instated him. If the nfl is so worried about saving face than they shouldn't have re-instated him period.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We are one and the same on this Vick should never get any awards, and should just be happy to be playing. We dealt with Vick for years and are still of the mind he is putting on an act until he gets a contract. Its our opinion, and we don't buy it.

What he did, takes a super human disrespect for life. Im not sure how you reach that point in your life were the suffering becomes "matter of fact", Im sure most of us could not even approach the cruelty it takes, it mind numbing. To think prison reformed him or that he ok now, is naive. Anyone that does this has mental damage.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

There are better people and candidates, that have not gone to Vicks extremes.
Brees really deserved a decent shot at the MVP in 2008,2009, didn't get it. Hes just not doing it this year and dosnt deserve it. Our vote is with TB. It would be a crime again if he didn't get it, and person like Vick was even considered. And thats not Pats homerish to us the list is

1. T.Brady
2. M. Cassel
3. T. Polamalu
4. Rivers
5. J. Mayo
6. A. Samuel
7. D. Brees ( only reason hes on this list, is he played with a mcl injury)
8. C. Johnson
9. C. Mathews
10. shoot out between M.Turner and M. Ryan

Great post. I've been wanting to rant about Vick for some time, but I thought I'd stick with the on-the-field stuff. Now that the race is virtually over, I'd like to say that I agree with you.

To think that a person could be so cruel to DOGS is just sickening. I've been a dog lover my whole life; how could anyone ever want to hurt them? They'll do anything for people; they'd run in front of cars and sacrifice their lives to help their owners. They are unselfish, always trying to please, never bringing anything but joy and laughs. I think Vick is so disgusting I can't even watch his games.

I completely agree that this guy is not "rehabilitated" and probably never will be. This is a typical media BS bit that they are trying to jam down our throats. When a guy wins games, he's suddenly changed. Why? Because he smiles, says the right things, and hasn't been convicted of another felony yet.

My wife has just gotten into football this year, and she noticed a look on his face when his attitude suddenly changed during locker room footage of the Giants game. She turned to me and said "this guy is really evil." It was true; behind the scenes, you could really sense the anger and wickedness that he has in his heart. His vocal tone and facial expressions just completely changed.

Anyway, I'm glad he failed last night, and I'm glad he is injured. I hope he suffers a career ending injury and finishes his life with nothing. We'll see if he still does PETA commercials and charity work once he has no incentive besides his own personal redemption.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

You cannot punish on-field success for off-field issues. Especially after the state of VA says he's paid for his crimes and The commissioner of the NFL has re-instated him. If the nfl is so worried about saving face than they shouldn't have re-instated him period.

off field issuies aside, he has had a nice year, but when it came to big games he came up small, chicago and last night when they should have won... he did beat the giants, but im not sure the giants more lost the game...

Games that Brady won and was huge
At pitt
indy
At san diego
Baltimore
nyj
at chicago in the snow...
packers

Brady also has not turned the ball over in those games, Vick was a To machine last night... there should be no debate anymore... Brady 2010 mvp...

 

[pherein]

You cannot punish on-field success for off-field issues. Especially after the state of VA says he's paid for his crimes and The commissioner of the NFL has re-instated him. If the nfl is so worried about saving face than they shouldn't have re-instated him period.

I wrote a lot of stuff about what he did, and wasn't caught doing, but I realized this is not the place for it. suffice it to say, he is not a good person, and that will be proved soon enough. I hope Im wrong, but well..

 

[West Philly Patriot]

off field issuies aside, he has had a nice year, but when it came to big games he came up small, chicago and last night when they should have won... he did beat the giants, but im not sure the giants more lost the game...

Games that Brady won and was huge
At pitt
indy
At san diego
Baltimore
nyj
at chicago in the snow...
packers

Brady also has not turned the ball over in those games, Vick was a To machine last night... there should be no debate anymore... Brady 2010 mvp...

100% Agree with you. Tom Brady is the best QB in our league and He has had the best year. Vick will never be better or as good as tom F'n brady. As far as I'm concerned there is only one man that should be mentioned in the same breath as him and he likes to wear skechers for some reason.

Brady has played nearly flawless football. I have DVR'd every pats game this season and even the cleveland game besides the jets(week2) game was his worst outing. And he still gave us a chance to win. I think patsfans are in such a hurry to make this about vick playing poorly when it's really about TFB playing out of his mind.

I will say vick is a big fumble waiting to happen with how he carries the rock. It's a terrible running style, and he looked rattled under duress and bradywelkermoss hit it right on the head in week 16 discussion he will see more blitz if he can't adjust at the line. He sucks @ that.

 

[Haley]

Vick would still be killing dogs if he hadn't been caught. I don't understand anyone claiming redemption for this man, at least not for a long, long time. This is the equivalent of declaring someone cured of alcoholism because they didn't go out and party one weekend when they just got over the flu.

But this 'redemption' discussion is not even relevant to the MVP discussion. The reality is his stats simply aren't there. The only reason he *ever* made the list of considered candidates was some kind of misguided popularity contest, nothing more. I love to hear Vick supporters say that the dog fighting aspect shouldn't be part of the discussion because they fail to realize his visit to prison is the only reason he made it into the discussion. Prison made him "gangsta" and therefore popular. As previously pointed out, there are many more deserving candidates even if you don't look to TFB.

 

[Tunescribe]

Everybody wants to redefine the QB position. They want the easily identifiable athletes and quantifiable measurables guys whose bandwagons they climbed on from college to shine. It took a while for the NFC (which tends to be a day late and a dollar short by and large) to catch on to the blueprint or formula for marginalizing these guys to highlight tape stars. Hit 'em, confuse 'em, watch them self destruct. The more you "respect" what they bring, the longer they get away with bringing (or in the case of the gunslinger slinging) it. Three or four games a season like that and Vick won't be so dangerous... While he has modified his style somewhat, they can almost all do that if sufficiently motivated to. Drew did it once for half a season in Buffalo. Favre did it for three quarters of a season in NY and even a full regular season in Minnesota. But it's a short term solution as eventually they all return to form. Be they the scrambler or the mindnumbing gunslinger, when the pressure mounts and the season or post season is on the line, nine times out of ten they fall back on what they believe got them there, athleticism or a laser rocket arm... Unfortunately the competition at this level is a lot more equally athletic and way better coached than what they faced in HS and college.

I'll go you one further on this line of thought: Vick admired himself in the mirror after the miracle win vs. the Giants and concluded that he's finally been vindicated as a player. "Coaching? Studying film? Bah! Look at the tattoo on my arm! I'm Superman!" Who really believes from his performance against the lowly Vikings -- in which he should've been picked off AT LEAST three times by SUBSTITUTE players in the secondary -- that he prepared hard for that game? Vick is a sociopathic cretin.

 

[Joker]

yeah but...Brady had a bad playoff game in 2009,Tunes!!!!!! So Vick HAS TO BE the MVP this year...I just read that somewhere here...that and "asians eat dogs...what's the matter with a little dog death?"...

 

[West Philly Patriot]

So we can say for sure he's ok? This is a man that tortured defenseless animals, probably for more years than he was caught with. Anyone really believe this is his 1st offense?
Do you think this was Farves 1st offense or are there 20 more things they didn't catch in his career? You do realize serial killers have this same pathology.

so, 1 year hes a good football player, and he said hes ok, he spent his 2 years in jail, they really help guys there, oh gosh hes super, MVP him.

I live in the inner city I see more criminals than I care to mention. So i know the justice system is flawed. But that is a case for the united states justice sysytem. Not football fans to take away accolades based on criminal history.

Having that said I agree, Something has to be off up there for you to do that. I pray he never does anything like that ever if so throw him under the jail for stupidity alone. I am not a dog-lover however I love MY dog. So i would probably have strangled vick if he'd done that to my dog. But I'm not a champion of all animal rights nor is anyone else on this board unless they are vegan.

I think too many americans pick and choose which animals are holy and which are expendable. Dogs are not people as mean as that may sound. You can't compare vick to a serial killer. Especially when in alot of cultures dogs are a snack

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Last night was one of the few non Patriots games I have watched start to finish. Michael Vick is certainly a draw, which is the ONLY reason the league as well as the Humane Society and Jeffrey Lurie prostrated themselves to rehabilitate his image. Reid the mismanager did it because of his own history with his wonderful sons. The draw for me was not the chance to witness more of his explosive athleticism and newly acquired reading skills, it was the hope that the Vikings defense would somehow find it's soul and a way to abuse Vick like a bait dog...

I hope last night doesn't mean the Eagles opt for the tag. Mike's creditors deserve more. Sign him to a largely guaranteed long term deal...you Patriot model franchise frauds...:rocker:

 

[West Philly Patriot]

But this 'redemption' discussion is not even relevant to the MVP discussion. The reality is his stats simply aren't there. The only reason he *ever* made the list of considered candidates was some kind of misguided popularity contest, nothing more. I love to hear Vick supporters say that the dog fighting aspect shouldn't be part of the discussion because they fail to realize his visit to prison is the only reason he made it into the discussion. Prison made him "gangsta" and therefore popular. As previously pointed out, there are many more deserving candidates even if you don't look to TFB.

Brady (13-2)
35 total TDs
5 total turnovers
3,731 total yards (66.0%)
109.8 Rating

Vick (8-2)
30 total TDs
9 total turnovers
3,696 total yards (62.6%)
100.2 QB Rating

That's in the same discussion, slick
_________________

 

[Haley]

I live in the inner city I see more criminals than I care to mention. So i know the justice system is flawed. But that is a case for the united states justice sysytem. Not football fans to take away accolades based on criminal history.

Having that said I agree, Something has to be off up there for you to do that. I pray he never does anything like that ever if so throw him under the jail for stupidity alone. I am not a dog-lover however I love MY dog. So i would probably have strangled vick if he'd done that to my dog. But I'm not a champion of all animal rights nor is anyone else on this board unless they are vegan.

I think too many americans pick and choose which animals are holy and which are expendable. Dogs are not people as mean as that may sound. You can't compare vick to a serial killer. Especially when in alot of cultures dogs are a snack

You cannot reasonable compare purposeless cruelty and gambling addiction with a need to eat and survive. I'm sorry but that is just fundamentally flawed.

 

[coolguy]

Brady (13-2)
35 total TDs
5 total turnovers
3,731 total yards (66.0%)
109.8 Rating

Vick (8-2)
30 total TDs
9 total turnovers
3,696 total yards (62.6%)
100.2 QB Rating

That's in the same discussion, slick
_________________

The case that is being made for vick over brady is
1Nfc east is the toughest/best* division in the nfl
2The whole bill's the reason for the pats success
4If vick played in every game he would have better numbers than brady
5 vick takes more shots down the field than brady
6The whole matt cassel won 11 games bs
7vick has bad o-line and his legs are the reason the eagles are good
8 the comeback

All of which is crazy.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

You cannot reasonable compare purposeless cruelty and gambling addiction with a need to eat and survive. I'm sorry but that is just fundamentally flawed.

I dont think people eat dogs to survive haley. I think they eat it because they like the taste. I'm not comparing what vick did to a asians eating dogs. Im saying that you can't compare him to a serial killer. Who murders PEOPLE.