Run game?

thecore762 said:

Well we will see how things playout in the next few weeks, but Brady is no young buck anymore, so the running game will benefit your QB and their longevity throughout the season.

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They have shown they will run the ball, they just didn't do it today

thecore762 said:

I know we played the Jets today but we cannot abandon the run game! We need to run more, we cannot have Brady throw 90% of the times...we need to bring back balance to our offense. If we run then the pass rush would slow down.

I am hoping to get Marcus Cannon back, he would help our run game greatly!

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We've been getting this argument from people since at least as far back as 2007, often from one of the mods here. The Patriots, therefore, have been proving that argument wrong for more than 7 seasons.

game specific game planning seems to throw a lot of fans for a loop...

thecore762 said:

I know we played the Jets today but we cannot abandon the run game! We need to run more, we cannot have Brady throw 90% of the times...we need to bring back balance to our offense. If we run then the pass rush would slow down.

I am hoping to get Marcus Cannon back, he would help our run game greatly!

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so we win SB against Seattle with run game?

thecore762 said:

Well we will see how things playout in the next few weeks, but Brady is no young buck anymore, so the running game will benefit your QB and their longevity throughout the season.

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There are a bunch of crap defenses coming up, Washington, Houston, Tennessee, Philly just to name a few. They'll run plenty in those games (yes, Houston. Run lead/wham blocks right at Wilfork all day)

But the Patriots aren't going to bang their head into a wall for no reason. They haven't for about a decade (since Charlie Weis left), so there's no reason to think they would start now.

Brady's no young buck anymore, like you said. So it stands to reason the Patriots will try to get every point, every yard they can at every opportunity to get him another ring.

TommyD4207 said:

Hell, even the Jets, who would be considered a running time, threw more than they ran today. Know why? Every time they did it, it would kill their drive. They had better success throwing, and that kept them in it.

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This is a great point, and another sign that Bowles & co. have transformed that team. These Jets adapt to take what the defense gives them.

The Pats don't look for "balance"....they look for points by any means necessary

Take away your opponent's strength. Jets strength is Run D.

Can we get a shout out to the OL? Patched up crew did great against those first-round beasts of the Jets.

No Stork, no Mason, no Cannon, no Solder...30 points, 322 yards against a Revis and Cromartie-led secondary, and all that with a dozen dropped passes. Scary.

This thread reminded me of the HC or OC that actually tracked and robotically worked towards a 50/50 run/pass ratio. I can't recall who this was - anyone? Anyway, thank god that we have a HC, OC, and QB that are able to situationally do what works best.

We would have been lucky to haven gotten a first down had we decided to pound the ball against Wilkerson, Richardson, and Harrison and Williams, probably the best front in the league.

When you have the greatest quarterback of all-time, you let him do his thing in games like this.

In my book, anytime your team runs for 16 yards (15 by your QB) while your receivers are dropping ten passes (including at least one for a TD) and you still win the game, you just throw a few Virgins into the local volcano or sacrifice a goat or two, say "Thank You" and move on to the next game.

patriots offense adapts to counter a teams weakness....just like the seahawks in the superbowl there is no reason to beat your head against the wall trying to run on a stout D-line.

I knew brady was going to drop back and utilize the quick passing game. Same thing we did against the ravens in the playoffs last year and the Bills earlier this year.

I would expect we will run more against teams like the redskins etc.

There will be a games when the opponent defense leave just 3 or 4 in the box and make us run and I'm sure Brady would be happy to do so as long as we win.

I understand the thinking behind wanting a credible running game, and it is supported by years of stats. When QBs throw more than 50 times they almost always lose. Except when their name is Brady. The Patriots have been an anomaly to those stats for years, consistently winning when asking Brady to shoulder a lion's share of the snaps. Chuck all the stats and screw conventional wisdom. We win because our QB is Tom Brady and yours is not. GOAT.

Here is a remarkable statistic: The Patriots dropped back to pass on 90.9 percent of their offensive plays, the highest percentage of any team over the last 10 years, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Normally, that’s a recipe for failure [everyone else: 3W vs 109 L], but the Patriots are 4-0 over the last 10 years when throwing at least 80 percent of the time.

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Out-of-gas New York Jets could have done better job managing play time - New York Jets Blog - ESPN

Mack Herron said:

When QBs throw more than 50 times they almost always lose. Except when their name is Brady. The Patriots have been an anomaly to those stats for years, consistently winning when asking Brady to shoulder a lion's share of the snaps. Chuck all the stats and screw conventional wisdom. We win because our QB is Tom Brady and yours is not.

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Taking nothing away from Mr. GOAT, I think the biggest factor in that stat is that when other teams pass 50+ times, it's usually because they've fallen behind and start slinging the ball in catch-up mode. When the Patriots pass 50+ times, it's usually a deliberate game plan that the coaches believe will succeed. Then again, they might not go with that game plan if their QB weren't named Brady. It's the classic BB/TB chicken and egg argument.

patchick said:

Taking nothing away from Mr. GOAT, I think the biggest factor in that stat is that when other teams pass 50+ times, it's usually because they've fallen behind and start slinging the ball in catch-up mode. When the Patriots pass 50+ times, it's usually a deliberate game plan that the coaches believe will succeed. Then again, they might not go with that game plan if their QB weren't named Brady. It's the classic BB/TB chicken and egg argument.

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All stats require interpretation of course, and this is an average. Still, your comment applies to the Pats too. Brady had fallen behind yesterday and completed something like 14/17 in the 4th quarter. That 3rd and 17 was likely for all the marbles. Reminded me a little of SB49.

TommyD4207 said:

"Abandon" would imply that the Patriots tried to do it in the first place.

They didn't.

There's no point. The Jets, (like the Bills, like Miami) have a terrific front 4 and are excellent against the run.

Throwing the football is what you do best.

Why in the blue **** would you bang your head against the wall trying to run the football? Why?

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. They're going to do the EXACT same thing on Thursday, so get your fist ready to shake at passing clouds.

It's not 1965. Hell, even the Jets, who would be considered a running time, threw more than they ran today. Know why? Every time they did it, it would kill their drive. They had better success throwing, and that kept them in it. Then in the 4th, with a lead, they for some reason tried to run, couldn't do it, and they Patriots came back on them.

"Run the ball, stop the run" became useless the day the Colts had the rules changed.

Hell, look how many times Brady made a play-action fake, and the RB wasn't looking, running the right direction for a plausible fake, or there was NO RUNNING BACK AT ALL.

The Jets, being trained to "stop the run" bit every time. The Dolphins will do the same.

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TommyD my brother, switch to decaf .
As mentioned, I agree that running for the sake of running and somehow finding football nirvana because you had 50% of X and 50% of Y is illogical when victory is the only goal. BB/JM can and should call the plays that will give us the highest chance at productivity and winning. My question is why JM/BB seemed so convinced so quickly that running would not be productive. Did I miss where the Jets run D was anointed as the 85 Bears because they played 5 games against NFL bottom tier offenses? IMHO their run D has not proven they are so completely impenetrable that running the ball is out of the question.
But let's say I am completely off base and the chances of productively running on the Jets was so unlikely that virtually abandoning it was the only safe play for victory (I'm sure the our injuries played into the decision too). Now you are saying "They're going to do the EXACT same thing on Thursday" against a Phins team that averages 4.1 yards allowed per attempt? So another pass rush defense will have 50+ attempts to go straight at hitting/sacking Brady because the Phins run D looks pretty good? Another game plan of Brady being tee'd off on 50+ times by a pass rush that doesn't have to hesitate one iota when going after him?

OK, the Patriots had to do what they had to do against the Jets. We won, that's what matters most, on to the Phins. But 90% of offensive plays being passing plays 2 weeks in a row? That is playing with fire on multiple fronts (Brady being the most important one) at a level everyone should be concerned with. While we will likely pass much more then we throw, depending on the game situation we better find some production on the ground (no, not run to run, run to produce). Letting Suh have 50+ cracks at Brady as a game plan is ......

TheBostonStraggler said:

But 90% of offensive plays being passing plays 2 weeks in a row? That is playing with fire on multiple fronts (Brady being the most important one) at a level everyone should be concerned with. While we will likely pass much more then we throw, depending on the game situation we better find some production on the ground (no, not run to run, run to produce). Letting Suh have 50+ cracks at Brady as a game plan is ......

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Here's hoping that Dion Lewis is good enough to go on Thursday, where he can then take advantage of 10+ days rest. It sucks that White still doesn't seem ready enough to contribute in all of his assignments, because he's the kind of guy we could've used vs. the NYJ.

I wonder if a guy like Bolden would've received 5-10 carries on Sunday, had he been able to go? I'm guessing it probably wouldn't have mattered too much, but who knows?

Mack Herron said:

That 3rd and 17 was likely for all the marbles. Reminded me a little of SB49.

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First thing I thought of as well.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Letting Suh have 50+ cracks at Brady as a game plan is ......

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The best way to score points and win the game.