NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 19, 2015

Hoodie said:
Did Berman ask Kessler any questions?

How are the wife and kids? Headed to the Hamptons this weekend? Where did you buy the tie, Rothman's?

BradyFTW! · Aug 19, 2015

reflexblue said:
Wasn't it Pash that invoked client, council privilege?

I believe attorney-client privilege was invoked when the NFLPA requested access to Wells' notes. Not sure though.

turkeyneck · Aug 19, 2015

tatepatsfan said:
The biggest positive I took away from today is not Judge Berman again calling into question the "facts" (or lack thereof) underlying Brady's punishment, but rather, Judge Berman diving more into how the NFL screwed up the process. Because this is what the decision is ultimately going to come down to.

I've been uncomfortable with Berman's grasp of the notion that nothing was done but I think you're right on point here that he's steering more towards NYJFL's process. And he's not happy with it.

Ring 6 · Aug 19, 2015

farn said:
I'm not laughing as much as you... Berman seems to be minimizing the science. I suppose I should be happy he is actually delving into the case instead of just looking at "is RG allowed to do this", but still.... Untrained eye : Berman thinks something WAS done to the balls, but disagrees strongly with how NFL handled case with no proof and botching all the evidence.

Totally wrong conclusion. The suspension was for ball deflation and non-cooperation. Asking how much was for which is not saying he thinks something was done, its saying how do you define how much is for which offense.

Rob0729 · Aug 19, 2015

Gabe Feldman ‏@SportsLawGuy 4m4 minutes ago
Judge Berman did ask Kessler about his "concession" last week that Brady could/should have done more to cooperate. (1/2)

Gabe Feldman ‏@SportsLawGuy 2m2 minutes ago
Kessler made clear he was making notice argument- Brady would have turned over records if he knew he could be suspended for not doing so

patsfan13 · Aug 19, 2015

ViperGTS said:
I know it's gotta be said, but man that first quote that bothers me. How can he at this point give anything to the NFL?

Because he can't say he has reached a decision yet. He is trying to give the NFL an out by reaching a settlement. He doesn't want his decision outside a settlement to be overturned because of his words or actions.

RELAX

Ring 6 · Aug 19, 2015

ViperGTS said:
I know it's gotta be said, but man that first quote that bothers me. How can he at this point give anything to the NFL?

Because the law favors the NFL, unless the process was unfair or biased, which it was.
In other words it should be a no brainer win for the NFL because there is major deference given an arbitrator, but this arbritrator was a major doofus so there are strengths on both sides.
Remember this has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

SVN · Aug 19, 2015

reflexblue said:
I think your right about the judge dropping hints to the nfl to settle, but we must remember goody, pash, etc. are all former jest. Thats means their not the sharpest knivesa in the draw.

Iam sure the owners are going to ask goodell to clean this up before 31st. We have to see what terms. I think this gets settled which may or may not be favorable entirely to brady.

sieglo · Aug 19, 2015

farn said:
I'm not laughing as much as you... Berman seems to be minimizing the science. I suppose I should be happy he is actually delving into the case instead of just looking at "is RG allowed to do this", but still.... Untrained eye : Berman thinks something WAS done to the balls, but disagrees strongly with how NFL handled case with no proof and botching all the evidence.

I've been thinking this since last week and it disturbs me. It echoes a lot of the conventional wisdom out here in the media right now. "Brady probably did something, but the NFL really botched the whole thing after that."

SVN · Aug 19, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
he has a tough argument. he's just doing his job - he doesn 't necessarily believe the NFL propoganda.

Doesnt mean he doesnt deserve a punch

RayClay · Aug 19, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
Stephen Brown ‏@PPVSRB 2m2 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
Berman also wanted to know how Goodell settled on four game suspension.

Stephen Brown ‏@PPVSRB 2m2 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
Berman: "Which of the four games were for ball tampering and which were for non cooperation?"

Stephen Brown ‏@PPVSRB 1m1 minute ago Manhattan, NY
Berman: "The next time someone tampers with a ball but cooperates, what suspension would he get?"

He's just toying with them now. I think he just wants to give all appearances of trying to reach a settlement.

karguy85 · Aug 19, 2015

sieglo said:
I've been thinking this since last week and it disturbs me. It echoes a lot of the conventional wisdom out here in the media right now. "Brady probably did something, but the NFL really botched the whole thing after that."

This just goes to my whole point that whether there is a settlement (with no admission of guilt), Berman confirms, or Berman vacates, public perception outside of New England won't change. That is why Brady should do what's best for Brady.

Deus Irae · Aug 19, 2015

Just a reminder:

While the questioning leads one to think the NFL is in 'trouble', you can't be sure what the judge is really thinking until he rules.

Ring 6 · Aug 19, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
I think that Berman is not allowed to dispute the evidence or Goodell's interpretations of the evidence. So (for example) if Goodell says science doesn't show Brady didn't deflate or even that there's little evidence deflation happened at all, Berman cannot substitute his opinion for Goodell's.

However, I think that Berman is allowed to consider the quality of the evidence and Goodell's interpretations of it for purposes of deciding if Goodell is acting in a sufficiently arbitrary, unfair, biased way.

But I (like many of us, I'm sure!) would love to hear from someone with legal experience re: the Federal Arbitration Act about where the lines are between a judge incorrectly reopening issues of fact and analyzing fairness of process.

My understanding is that he cannot object to the JUDGMENT of Abitrator Goodell, but he can set aside the verdict for bias, or procedural unfairness.
Such as Goodell rejecting case history that he was the losing party in, Goodell changing the reason for punishment, witness not being allowed to testify, and the whole conflict of interest and the bias and unfairness it created.
Once Brady gets the award vacated it will return to a new arbitrator (unless the NFL just gives up) and that arbitrator will make new judgement on the evidence.

SVN · Aug 19, 2015

Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw 10m10 minutes ago
Remember that the winner in Brady v. NFL must win twice: before Judge Berman and before US Court of Appeals for 2nd Circuit. Long way to go.

Ring 6 · Aug 19, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Just a reminder:

While the questioning leads one to think the NFL is in 'trouble', you can't be sure what the judge is really thinking until he rules.

But in this case, given the NFLPA must only win on any one point, his comments indicating they have one are telling. Its hard to rule that the award stands after you say it was unfair to not all Pash to be questioned and say that awards have been overturned for that. Otherwise, why say it?

Wiluven · Aug 19, 2015

^ Not entirely true. Not so sure the owners will want/allow Goodell to drag this out further.

SVN · Aug 19, 2015

Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt 7m7 minutes ago
When Berman asked Kessler re statement last week that Brady could have done more to cooperate, Kessler noted "others" advising Brady. Ouch.
Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt 49m49 minutes ago
NFL argument stays same: Brady a "disappointed grievant." Had 10-hour hearing, exercised all his rights under the CBA. #BradyHearing

Ring 6 · Aug 19, 2015

karguy85 said:
This just goes to my whole point that whether there is a settlement (with no admission of guilt), Berman confirms, or Berman vacates, public perception outside of New England won't change. That is why Brady should do what's best for Brady.

I think clearing his name is what Brady feels is best, but of course I am speculating.
Interesting thought. Would Brady prefer:

4 games screaming he is innocent?
1 games admitting he is guilty?

BradyFTW! · Aug 19, 2015

SVN said:
Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw 10m10 minutes ago
Remember that the winner in Brady v. NFL must win twice: before Judge Berman and before US Court of Appeals for 2nd Circuit. Long way to go.

I do wonder if it's at least possible that, if Berman rules against the NFL, the contingent of owners who just want this to be over might win out. I really doubt it, though. Losing this case is essentially a CBA concession, and I don't see the owners wanting any kind of concession made without exhausting all avenues to avoid it.

OTOH, if they realize that they have a losing hand, they may wish to avoid appealing up to the circuit court and losing there, creating a binding precedent across the second circuit (all of NY, CT, and VT) re: limitations on Goodell's authority.

NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

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