Zolak - Patriots think the league has NOTHING

patsfan13 said:

Well for there to be a preponderance of the evidence there need to be a shred of evidence. What we know is that:

1) the balls were properly inflated (12.5 psi) and approved by the ref pregame.

2) due to the lower temps and rain we know that the balls MUST lose air pressure somewhere between 1.16 and 2 psi, which apparently they did.

So unless there is something else on tape there is NO EVIDENCE the PATS did ANYTHING wrong.

So what shred of evidence is there that the pats did ANYTHING wrong?

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Disagree on item 1. The balls were approved by the refs, but we don't know if they were properly inflated

NEPats1 said:

Hope this isn't true

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/low-standard-of-proof-applies-to-deflategate/

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It's very true, and something that I've been bringing up for days as a major concern.

patsfan13 said:

Well for there to be a preponderance of the evidence there need to be a shred of evidence. What we know is that:

1) the balls were properly inflated (12.5 psi) and approved by the ref pregame.

2) due to the lower temps and rain we know that the balls MUST lose air pressure somewhere between 1.16 and 2 psi, which apparently they did.

So unless there is something else on tape there is NO EVIDENCE the PATS did ANYTHING wrong.

So what shred of evidence is there that the pats did ANYTHING wrong?

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The burden of proof is pretty low, and that's unfortunate. It's pretty much like the 51/49 standard they use for civil cases, whereas everyone here seems to feel that they're using the standard for criminal cases.

The fact that there's video evidence of the ball boy doing something wrong (and before anyone jumps in, no...you're not supposed to take a bag full of game day balls with you into the locked bathroom, even if he was just doing his business), and then also under inflated or deflated balls is plenty of evidence in the eyes of that snake Roger Goodell.

The whole situation sucks ass. It's his show, with his rules....not the other way around. In other words, the Pats have to answer as to why the ball boy went into the locked bathroom instead of directly to the field. The Pats have to answer as to why the balls were under inflated. This is an investigation brought on by the NFL during the league's biggest 2 week stretch for a reason.

Maybe the excuse of "he was just taking a leak," combined with "the weather caused the balls to deflate" will work---but there's plenty of reason to doubt things working out with that idiot Goodell at the head of the table.

This isnt a trail. Who cares about preponderance of evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt. The issue is public perception. That's it. If we get fined or lose draft picks boo hoo. They're not gonna suspend bb if it's possible something happened they'll needd proof. If all they have is weak circumstantial evidence of a ball boy going into a room the worst we will get is a fine fir having our balls deflated

This whole thing is a joke.

Enjoy super bowl week

billdog3484 said:

If we get fined or lose draft picks boo hoo. They're not gonna suspend bb if it's possible something happened they'll needd proof. If all they have is weak circumstantial evidence of a ball boy going into a room the worst we will get is a fine fir having our balls deflated

This whole thing is a joke.

Enjoy super bowl week

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I agree.

I think we're getting fined no matter what, with the possibility of losing a mid round draft pick.

Any suspensions should require some solid evidence, which they may not have.

The public perception isn't likely to change at all, without total exoneration and a public apology, and that's probably a long shot.

Either way, the big game is approaching, so it's probably best to try and put it behind us and much as possible.

turkeyneck said:

That would be penalizing the Pats for the normal functioning of the universe.

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In very simple terms its like fining the Patriots because it rained that night. They could have put in a dome.

Dr Pain said:

In very simple terms its like fining the Patriots because it rained that night. They could have put in a dome.

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I think it will be more of the "one coincidence may be accepted, but two....."

Coincidence #1: The Ball boy had to take a piss before the game, at that particular time, with a bag full of game day balls.

Coincidence #2: The balls ended up deflated.

supafly said:

I think it will be more of the "one coincidence may be accepted, but two....."

Coincidence #1: The Ball boy had to take a piss before the game, at that particular time, with a bag full of game day balls.

Coincidence #2: The balls ended up deflated.

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The ball boy is an NFL employee, not a Patriots employee.

Hoodie said:

The ball boy is an NFL employee, not a Patriots employee.

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It's been reported as a "Patriots employee/attendant."

The distinction between who pays the ball boys' salary seems to be a moot point.

It seems that almost every time someone talks about how the balls might have lost pressure without deliberate tampering, someone else chimes in, "Yeah, but then why didn't the Colts balls lose pressure too?"

This seems to assume a fact not in evidence. As I understand it, the only reason the Patriots balls were checked and reinflated at halftime is because there was a complaint made to the officials. Were the Colts balls also checked? Has any reporter even alluded to a source saying that both teams balls were checked and one team's balls were deflated and the team's weren't?

Honestly, there is just so much rumor-milling going back and forth about this, it's truly infuriating.

PromisedLand said:

Has any reporter even alluded to a source saying that both teams balls were checked and one team's balls were deflated and the team's weren't?

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Yes, pretty much all of them, although they're likely using the same 1-2 sources, so who knows?

PromisedLand said:

Honestly, there is just so much rumor-milling going back and forth about this, it's truly infuriating.

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Agreed. Just horrible.

I do not believe there will be any penalty. Furthermore, I think the Pats will get sort of an apology from the NFL, but it will be a limp weasley apology because that's the way the NFL rolls.

They can't afford the fall out from Brady/Bundchen and Belichick. I expect Belichick to make it privately known that he will resign and drop a ton of bricks on the NFL if there are sanctions for something he and the team didn't do. I'm sure that Belichick is a big threat to the NFL.

Brady/Bundchen are not prevented from filing legal action against the NFL. The clown show nature of the leaks from the NFL leaves them exposed.

I think Kreisel will quietly retire. He is so obviously the leaker, he might as well have let Mort use him as a named source.

hwc said:

I do not believe there will be any penalty. Furthermore, I think the Pats will get sort of an apology from the NFL, but it will be a limp weasley apology because that's the way the NFL rolls.

They can't afford the fall out from Brady/Bundchen and Belichick. I expect Belichick to make it privately known that he will resign and drop a ton of bricks on the NFL if there are sanctions for something he and the team didn't do. I'm sure that Belichick is a big threat to the NFL.

Brady/Bundchen are not prevented from filing legal action against the NFL. The clown show nature of the leaks from the NFL leaves them exposed.

I think Kreisel will quietly retire. He is so obviously the leaker, he might as well have let Mort use him as a named source.

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Sure hope you're right.

Sfpat said:

Additionally, footballs are difficult to handle, bounce funny when dropped and its tough to hold onto multiple balls without dropping them. Hard to imagine he could do all that in a tiny room without dropping any balls, getting them mixed up, etc. The whole thing is ludicrous.

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It probably could be done by somebody who had frequently practiced the maneuver in the past. About the best we can hope for as a result of the NFL's "unbiased" investigation is that they find:

1. If there were wrong-doing, it would have had to involve a fairly elaborate effort ...
2. ... of which there is no evidence.

Bella*chick said:

A nominal fine might be all right but there is no way I'd accept the loss of a draft pick for some guy going to the can for 90 seconds.

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Yikes. I just remembered a concept from the investment industry -- "Failure to supervise".

It's proper use is

• "One of your subordinates did something wrong, and ...
• ... we can't prove whether you were a co-conspirator or just an ineffective supervisor, so ...
• ... we'll punish you either way."

But it can be extended to

• "We don't know whether anybody did anything wrong, and ...
• ... the reason we don't know is that you weren't 100% perfect in preventing every possible way they could have done something wrong, so ...
• ... we'll punish you for that imperfection."

Sfpat said:

Disagree on item 1. The balls were approved by the refs, but we don't know if they were properly inflated

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BY rule it is the refs job to ensure that the balls are legal ie properly inflated. They ruled the balls legal so they were properly inflated according to the NFL.

supafly said:

It's been reported as a "Patriots employee/attendant."

The distinction between who pays the ball boys' salary seems to be a moot point.

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..and it shouldn't.

PromisedLand said:

It seems that almost every time someone talks about how the balls might have lost pressure without deliberate tampering, someone else chimes in, "Yeah, but then why didn't the Colts balls lose pressure too?"

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The mediots like Mort can't to grasp the idea that IF the Colts balls were prepared exactly like the Patriots balls and did not lose pressure, this would be quite suspicious and point to tampering by the Colts. Why doesn't any one of them ever ask the Colts people anything about this?

And if the Colts say, we pumped them up cold, this would corroborate the Patriots' explanation.

If I were the the family of that ball,attendant I would be in court today suing anyone who is claiming he tampered with those balls.

If Ted Wells convicts the Patriots on this basis the ball attendant should sue the NFL for defamation of character.

Personally I would have a problem with the team deliberately deflating the footballs after they were checked. That is outright cheating and would be indefensible. That thankfully should not be the case here so Im good.

Given what we know I still expect a hefty fine for that ball attendant taking the footballs where he did. That way Goodell can look like he's appeasing the masses who want their pound of flesh.