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D Mac #3 ranked Safety.


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I have the AFC Championship game on DVR and went back and watched it. First misconception is McCourty is only a FS which is flat out wrong. At the start of the 2nd quarter he and Gregory switched spots and McCourty played closer to the line of scrimmage, Gregory played deep middle of the field. It looked like they switched due to McCourty struggling to cover. With Gregory playing deep middle, don't think Denver hit a real deep pass. There were long runs after the catch due to missed tackles.

McCourty was flat out awful in the 1st quarter. 1st quarter 5:15 mark got beat deep on a seem pass to Thomas. Simms went onto say that Denver knew they could hit this play due to watching film and they picked up on McCourty tends to be late and often out of position. He tended to be late in Colts playoff game and let up two long TD's. Not my words they were Simms.

Very next play got beat on a deep in cut by Decker.

Next play lined up on the outside man to man on J. Thomas, mugged the guy in the end zone and never turned his head. Should have been a flag, but it is playoff football and I have no problem with with no flag being thrown.

Great play by McCourty with 47 seconds left in the first half came up and smacked Welker for a very short gain. Saw the play develop used his speed and made a great hit. This is what I want to see! More plays like this.

3rd quarter lined up again on the outside against J. Thomas and got beat again. Simms went onto say Denver was looking forward to this match-up because they thought it was very much in their advantage. Again Simms words not mine.

Overall view, if Pats take this current roster to that playoff game no doubt they would have beaten the Broncos. The score being 13-3 at half time with one of worst Pats rosters BB has ever put on a field, much to look forward to!

If you watched the game over you must have noticed that there was zero pressure on Manning from our front 7. Not trying to defend Devin or any DB for the play in that game. But when there is zero pressure, no DB can cover forever.
 
Based on my amateur knowledge of coverages (and somebody can feel free to correct me if they think I'm wrong), that play looked exactly like what people want to do with Revis. It was a 5-man blitz, and the four DBs (other than McCourty) plus Collins each had man coverage on a receiver. But more specifically, it sure looks to me like Talib was on an island, with McCourty playing more of a deep half on the opposite side, something like...
7vVMbFT.png

(Blus is coverage, orange is pass rush. The DTs cross, and then Hightower goes up the middle between them. There's no good way to draw that in Paint.)

Now there are two main reasons that I came to this conclusion. The three guys on the offensive right side all engage their defenders at the line. Talib doesn't. He goes straight into his backpedal without any attempt at a jam. A few moments after the snap, the coverage looks like this:
i5ACSvC.png

One of these things is not like the others. The three defenders on the offensive right side are jamming their receivers. Talib is not. If my thinking on this play is correct, that's because Talib needs to respect the deep ball more than the other defenders. They have McCourty backing them up, while Talib does not. And then...

QsPzPHF.png

There are two things happening in this picture. First of all, notice McCourty's position. The term you hear a lot is the "rotation" of the safeties. When the SS comes up in a shorter zone or in this case man coverage, usually the FS rotates more toward the middle of the field. There's no rotation back there. From the snap to when McCourty makes his break toward Demaryius Thomas, he's gone basically straight back 8 yards. Again, feel free to correct me, but I would think that if McCourty had any responsibilities as far as helping Talib, then he would at least made some movement toward that side of the field.

And of course, the other thing to notice in this picture is Talib. He's facing outside while his receiver flies by on the inside. Yes, I understand why Talib bit so hard on the fake outside. If Thomas beats him to the outside and Peyton delivers a good ball, it's a TD. At least by funneling Thomas inside, it was only a 29 yard play (and eventually a field goal) rather than a TD. Still, I think that's the biggest difference between Revis and Talib. Talib did a lot of good work singled up on some good receivers, but I would expect that Revis makes this kind of mistake a lot less often.

At least from my point of view, this wasn't at all McCourty getting beat down the seam. It was McCourty cleaning up Talib's mess. They were asking a lot from Talib on the play, and he couldn't do it. I think the announcers completely over simplified things, and unfortunately most people aren't going to give it any second thought.
The only thing is, if Talib was playing Thomas man to man on an island, why does he immediately give up inside leverage to Thomas? It looked like he was expecting safety help. Could have been some miscommunication between Talib and the safetys that messed that play up.
 
The only thing is, if Talib was playing Thomas man to man on an island, why does he immediately give up inside leverage to Thomas? It looked like he was expecting safety help. Could have been some miscommunication between Talib and the safetys that messed that play up.
Right after the play Talib said something to McCourty. Also to the other poster I don't think Phil Simms would lie do you. Talk the day before the game about a particular play and coverage that they thought they could hit and they hit it and Simms talked about. I put a little faith in Simms on this one.
 
Right after the play Talib said something to McCourty. Also to the other poster I don't think Phil Simms would lie do you. Talk the day before the game about a particular play and coverage that they thought they could hit and they hit it and Simms talked about. I put a little faith in Simms on this one.

I will never understand why. Dan Connolly was not made their full time kick returner, you should see the play where he runs one back.
 
The only thing is, if Talib was playing Thomas man to man on an island, why does he immediately give up inside leverage to Thomas? It looked like he was expecting safety help. Could have been some miscommunication between Talib and the safetys that messed that play up.
I think inside is better than outside. Gregory was in position to defend the slant before going to pick up the RB. Further down the field, Talib didn't have coverage help on either side but at least had a backup tackler to the inside.

Or I could just be crazy. I'm not ready to disregard that possibility yet.
 
I think it is important to note that McCourty missed the final game of the season with a head injury and returned for the playoffs, he was not himself in either game.
 
Right after the play Talib said something to McCourty. Also to the other poster I don't think Phil Simms would lie do you. Talk the day before the game about a particular play and coverage that they thought they could hit and they hit it and Simms talked about. I put a little faith in Simms on this one.
I don't think he was intentionally lying. I think that if nobody here with the ability to watch the play as many times as they want can definitively say that McCourty was supposed to be helping Talib, then Simms shouldn't be calling out McCourty for messing up moments after the play happens, much less going into a story about it. It's not possible to get a pass in before the late safety arrives if defending a pass to that receiver isn't the safety's job.
 
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Devin McCourty is the #2 safety in the NFL in my opinion, and if he can begin converting some of the interception opportunities that he dropped last season, he will give Thomas a run for #1. McCourty is a very sound tackler with one of the lowest missed tackle rates at the safety positons. He makes plays on the football, and reads the QB extremely well. I think him not being a big mouth like the Seahawks secondary and not looking for $20m per season like Byrd makes people think he is not as good as he is.
 
So you're trying to set it up that if the 2014 defense, adding Revis, Easley, Browner, Mayo, Wilfork, Kelly, etc. is better than the injury-decimated 2013 crew, that proves that Devin McCourty is just an average player? Nice trick. o_O

Nope

Go back and look at the numbers. The best pass defense Mcourty was on was last years 14th ranked pass defense. Which is slightly above average.The rest were 17th, 28th and 23rd. Mcourty benefited from having Talib and I suspect Mcourty will really benefit from having Revis and Browner.

Question: When was Mcourty Elite on his own? His Rookie season playing CB, thereafter has not been pretty.

You cant have it both ways and blame the Pats pass defense not being better because of injuries and then add one of the best CBs in the game and a fine player in Browner and tell everyone that Mcourty can finally shine now that you've added some of the best DBs in the NFL.

Chung should benefit too. I suppose if we see eye popping number from him he will be elite too.
 
Mcourty benefited from having Talib and I suspect Mcourty will really benefit from having Revis and Browner.

Umm...yeah. It's a team game. That's why Revis was on #1 ranked pass defenses with the Jets, and the #11 ranked pass defense with Tampa. And why checking a team ranking on FootballOutsiders.com doesn't tell you how much to pay a player.

This just in: Devin McCourty isn't Revis, or Ronnie Lott, or Lawrence Taylor, or any first-ballot hall of famer you care to name, AND NOBODY HAS CLAIMED HE IS. What has been claimed is that he's one of the best current free safeties in football, thus an extremely valuable asset who will have to be compensated as such. You, in turn, have claimed he's "average."

There's a vast gulf between "hall of famer" and "average," and it's in that space that rosters are built and championships won. If you discard players like McCourty because they're not at the HOF level, you're going to end up with a lot more seasons starting the likes of James Ihedigbo at safety.
 
I always felt that Talib benefited from having McCourty.

No kidding.

We got Talib for a 4th round pick. Talib was on the verge of being cut by TB. Talib career was saved by coming here!
 
No kidding.

We got Talib for a 4th round pick. Talib was on the verge of being cut by TB. Talib career was saved by coming here!

Talib was going to be cut because of character problems.

He served a 4 game suspension with NE for behavior problems in Tampa.
 
Umm...yeah. It's a team game. That's why Revis was on #1 ranked pass defenses with the Jets, and the #11 ranked pass defense with Tampa. And why checking a team ranking on FootballOutsiders.com doesn't tell you how much to pay a player.

Well there you go.

Revis IS Elite. No question about it. Paying a player has nothing to do with it. Richard Sherman has been Elite these last few years and was playing for peanuts. Money doesn't mean anything. Its a team game but special players stand out on bad teams like Rodney Harrison and Junior Seau on some of those Charger teams.

This just in: Devin McCourty isn't Revis, or Ronnie Lott, or Lawrence Taylor, or any first-ballot hall of famer you care to name, AND NOBODY HAS CLAIMED HE IS. What has been claimed is that he's one of the best current free safeties in football, thus an extremely valuable asset who will have to be compensated as such. You, in turn, have claimed he's "average."

As players like Ed Reed and Polumau leave the game perhaps Mcourty is Elite in the eyes of some. Paying Mcourty lots of money proves nothing. Oucho Cinko received 6 mil guaranteed for doing nothing. Almendola received way more money than he should have.

Mcourty is replacable. Revis is not. Rodney was not.

There's a vast gulf between "hall of famer" and "average," and it's in that space that rosters are built and championships won. If you discard players like McCourty because they're not at the HOF level, you're going to end up with a lot more seasons starting the likes of James Ihedigbo at safety.

Mcourty is much closer to average than he is HOFer.
 
How when bad CB play has plagued the Patriots for several years?

You think only the CB play has been bad in the secondary since 2008? So you also think the play of Merriweather, McGowan, Chung, Ihedigbo, Sterling Moore, and Steve Gregory was just fine but it was the CB play that plagued the Patriots?
 
You think only the CB play has been bad in the secondary since 2008? So you also think the play of Merriweather, McGowan, Chung, Ihedigbo, Sterling Moore, and Steve Gregory was just fine but it was the CB play that plagued the Patriots?

That list of Safeties is truly painful to read.......

their are a lot of swings and misses from BB in that list
 
That list of Safeties is truly painful to read.......

their are a lot of swings and misses from BB in that list

I won't argue with that but it really is no surprise that once McCourty got moved to safety and Talib came in as the CB1, the back end of that defense stabilized more than in any previous year before that. Even when Talib was banged up or missing time, the secondary still wasn't as putrid as it had been from 2009-early 2012. And yes, the secondary was putrid in 2010 too. That defense lived and died off of their ability/inability to create turnovers.
 
How when bad CB play has plagued the Patriots for several years?
The Patriots were not plagued by bad cornerback play in 2013.
 
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