Let's not get carried away on building D

mayoclinic said:

My "blueprint" for the Offense:

1. Build a defense that can get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down, limit red zone effectiveness, and generate turnovers. An offense's best friend is a good defense. I'm thrilled with the moves on defense so far, and wouldn't stop.

2. Strengthen the interior OL. I couldn't care less about getting Brady more "weapons". He has plenty. What he needs is adequate protection to use them - especially protection up the middle.

3. Strengthen the TE position. I don't think there is a TE worth taking in the 1st round other than possibly Eric Ebron, who will be long gone. But I don't think we need to, either. There is TONS of day 3 talent in this draft who can come in and IMMEDIATELY be effective - Trey Millard, Gator Hospkins, Trey Bruton, Joe Don Duncan, Richard Rodgers, Jake Murphy. Maybe even take a flyer on Colt Lyerla (very unlikely), or a TE conversion of Larry Webster or Logan Thomas.

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Your disagnosis and prognosis are... Spot on.


I constantly hear how we must sa Pass rusher. Bologna. The Pats got Andre Carter back from Oakland at the end of the season. As an elder DE, he doesn't have the stamina to play lots of consecutive downs, but they don't need him for that. He merely has to provide some releif to Jones and Ninko.

In hte short time here the former Top Ten First Rounder collected 2 sacks, so he can still do it.

Why does everyone overlook the fact that the Pats registered 48 sacks/season. Their former high was 34/season ther last five seasons.. The Pass Rush has come together, despite not having Vince Wilfork or Tom Kelly.

Whatever they get from V Wlifork, T Kelly, and A Armisted is pure gravy.
Draft a TE or better yet a hardnose Big X Wr to do both outside receiving and slot work like APerp.

Spend your high picks on interior OLs to keep Tom Brady healthy; and another half second to deliver the ball.

When Gronk was healthy last year, the Pats had an elite offense by pretty much any classification. Just based on that, I really don't see huge changes as being necessary. The interior of the OL needs to be upgraded, and one each will probably be needed at WR/RB/TE just to offset Blount/Hernandez/Edelman. I think TE will be addressed in the draft, and WR/RB in FA.

Based on that, I'm still more interested/concerned in seeing what happens with the D: add a DE and a DT and they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

slash83 said:

Defense wins championships...Lets.

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They have already finished building it.

AzPatsFan said:

They have already finished building it.

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Now add Peppers...another DT and man the D is good

AzPatsFan said:

Your disagnosis and prognosis are... Spot on.


I constantly hear how we must sa Pass rusher. Bologna. The Pats got Andre Carter back from Oakland at the end of the season. As an elder DE, he doesn't have the stamina to play lots of consecutive downs, but they don't need him for that. He merely has to provide some releif to Jones and Ninko.

In hte short time here the former Top Ten First Rounder collected 2 sacks, so he can still do it.

Why does everyone overlook the fact that the Pats registered 48 sacks/season. Their former high was 34/season ther last five seasons.. The Pass Rush has come together, despite not having Vince Wilfork or Tom Kelly.

Whatever they get from V Wlifork, T Kelly, and A Armisted is pure gravy.
Draft a TE or better yet a hardnose Big X Wr to do both outside receiving and slot work like APerp.

Spend your high picks on interior OLs to keep Tom Brady healthy; and another half second to deliver the ball.

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Stats don't always tell the true story.Seattle had 44 sacks last season, but anyone who watched both teams play will tell you our pass rush was not better than Seattle.Stats in football must be analyzed in context. Too many times opposing qbs had an age to throw.Rotating good pass rushers increases every rusher's effectiveness.

The draft is deep at TE and WR. If Hageman falls to us we should take him IMO. If not, it's wide open since i don't think we need a safety.

slash83 said:

Defense wins championships...Lets.

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In spirit, I agree, but I think it's more accurate to say balance wins championships. You need playmakers on all phases of the game including special teams, so I can't totally dismiss the OP thoughts. We need Edelman back or someone who'd replace his production and another H-back.

Still, with Vince in limbo, without a replacement for him in the middle, without another playmaking DE and still more depth at LB, there are issues unaddressed on D despite these awesome signings.

Given what we've signed and Wilfork in doubt, it's better to make sure we complete our defense over worrying about elite weapons, otherwise our elite secondary could be a wash. I'd rather work to finish this and build an elite D.

We have Gronk and plenty of offensive talent that was under utilized last year due to injuries. Brady can win without Megatron.

Brady_to_Moss said:

Now add Peppers...another DT and man the D is good

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Yep. I want them to get carried away building this defense up. The more they do the less they have to rely upon the draft for the production. I still think they need to address some offensive needs but the best weapon you could give Brady right now is a defense that allows 16 points a game, it also gives him his best shot at winning more rings. I would love to see them bring in Peppers as a rotational pass rusher, restructure Wilfork if possible, and bring in a young DT in the first 3 rounds of the Draft. If they can't get Peppers or a good DE to put in the rotation then Kony Ealy may be an option in the draft, and Tuitt or Nix could also end up being good options for them but in different roles.

Offensively i think there is talent available at reasonable prices in what remains of free agency, which is substantial. They can add veteran WRs, TE's, and OL and field a really strong starting offense with what they already have (if Edelman returns-otherwise they need a starting WR like Sanders to replace him).

PATS16N0 said:

Given what we've signed and Wilfork in doubt, it's better to make sure we complete our defense over worrying about elite weapons, otherwise our elite secondary could be a wash. I'd rather work to finish this and build an elite D.

We have Gronk and plenty of offensive talent that was under utilized last year due to injuries. Brady can win without Megatron.

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Right on the money. They could waste the money spent on the secondary if the front 7 doesn't get it done, and they are both short on depth and questionable at some spots on it.

DT-Even if Wilfork stays they need to add a good young DT to this roster. Kelly is coming off an injury and Jones and Siliga are good but better as depth. One way or another Belichick will absolutely address this.

DE-I think another starter is needed. Not to turn Ninkovich into a back up but to be part of a 3 DE rotation. Jones and Ninkovich played way too many snaps last season and they need high quality back-ups to take their reps and spell them enough to be at full speed in the playoffs. It's possible they see good things with Micheal Buchanon but it's also really hard to know, right now it's a hope but not something i would count on. Jared Allen would be my first choice but i don't think that's going to happen, after that it's Peppers and i think there's a possibility of that happening. And odd as it may sound i think DE is more of a priority in free agency even though DT is the bigger need. I think it is going to be hard to fill the pass rushing DE role in this Draft and much easier to come away with a good DT prospect early.

LB- Hightower is the key. he has to have a good season for this unit to be really successful. Mayo will be fine and Collins should really upgrade them but the weight is going to be on Hightower's shoulders as he takes over at MLB.They need a 4th quality LB and their pursuit of Woodyard shows they knwo it. I don't think Fletcher has signed but would love him back as depth. they are 3 deep and need more than that to get through a season.

S-I'm not sure if they think they need any more help in the defensive backfield at this point? Belichick may feel like his young safety's can be really good player or he may just not be looking at it in pure S/CB terms and may feel like his CB's can fill the roles of the opposing "safety" to McCourty. He may be moving away from the delineations between the positions and to a system that is just based upon defensive backs and match-ups. Brandon Browner may not be designated a safety but could end up spending the whole day one Julius Thomas, or he could end up outside at CB against the bigger WR.



CB-They need help, clearly, Belichick simply isn't willing to spend to upgrade the position. If they go into the season with only Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan and Arrington then i am going to be so pissed.........

RayClay said:

The draft is deep at TE and WR. If Hageman falls to us we should take him IMO. If not, it's wide open since i don't think we need a safety.

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I wouldn't touch Hagemann. If he only plays part of the time in college there's no reason to believe he will play all of it when he has the cash in his pocket. Linemen on either side of the ball with no motor aren't worth a bucket of spit.

I'll take a stout defense over a high-powered offense any day of the week, and that statement has little to do with the Seahawks and what they did in the SB. Defense has, and as far as I'm concerned, always will win championships.

If BB wants to stock up on the defensive side of the ball, then I'm good with it. Tom Brady has shown he can win with less. He hasn't won with more. Had the team not been ravaged by injuries last season, we might be talking differently today. But everyone is entitled to whatever opinion they choose. So carry on.

Yea. Let's stick with the tried and true formula of getting to the SB only to watch the season flow down the drain as your defense caves in like a house of cards in the waning minutes because you didn't feel the need to build up your defense when you should have during the offseason. Sorry, no disrespect meant, but I'm sick and tired of the defense not being able to get off the field when it matters the most.

English Patriot said:

Of course we all want Browner to sign and i think we really need him even though we have the best corner in the game already because the physicality and size he will bring is something alot of players don't have naturally.

However we are all getting too obsessed with this Seahawks method of winning it...

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Huh? Let me get this straight. The team that blew out the team that handily beat you is being imitated and that UPSETS you.

Um, interesting choice.

English Patriot said:

Of course we all want Browner to sign and i think we really need him even though we have the best corner in the game already because the physicality and size he will bring is something alot of players don't have naturally.

However we are all getting too obsessed with this Seahawks method of winning .

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Back when the Patriots Won Super Bowls this was their method of winning. Whats old is new again, grasshopper.

Everyone knows that BB will trade that first round into 2 second rounds.

How about this? Build the defense AND the offense

VJCPatriot said:

That article makes me wonder though. Since Sherman was a WR to CB conversion, why can't we take a guy who was a receiver out of college and convert him to the CB position?

I'm thinking of one guy in particular, 6-6 WR Brandon Coleman from Rutgers.

Brandon Coleman, WR, Rutgers, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

We know that BB loves Rutgers players, so it's almost like a done deal. But why not draft him to play corner instead of WR?

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I want to get him to play "move TE"and X WR...:snob:

kudzif said:

Stats don't always tell the true story.Seattle had 44 sacks last season, but anyone who watched both teams play will tell you our pass rush was not better than Seattle.Stats in football must be analyzed in context. Too many times opposing qbs had an age to throw.Rotating good pass rushers increases every rusher's effectiveness.

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True. But there is a difference in kind, going from 30-sacks/season the prior 4-5 seasons, to 48 sacks/season. The 3rd down conversion % came way down too, as did the 3-and-outs go up, if yu look at them. The injuries just obscured the seasonal stats, while they were scrambling to find some "hole-pluggers" to take Wilfork, Kelly and Armsteads places. And they DID, and things settled down.

Anybody they get back from that trio is pure gravy, meanwhile Siliga, Jones and Carter are still here. But now Siliga, Jones, and perhaps even Vellano have a years of starting experience under their belts.

Last years injury and teething problems of the newcomers, seldom apply a year later, for a 12-4 club.

Unaddressed interior O line problems remain, however. Brady will NOT remain healthy taking another season of 40 sacks. Fix THAT problem.

I will go back and read the 3 pages of this thread, but I couldn't make it past the title without saying...LET's get carried away on building the D!

I've been begging for a D for the last 6-7 years. I want a defense that makes other teams uncomfortable. It's been a long time since we have seen that.

Watch the last Super Bowl. Let's get carried away, please.

reflexblue said:

Back when the Patriots Won Super Bowls this was their method of winning. Whats old is new again, grasshopper.

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Yes, but our secondary is better than back then, (Law, Milloy, OTIS and ??, and Buckly versus Revis, McCourty, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington and Harmon), as well as our starting LBs. (Bruscii, Phiffer, Vrabel versus Mayo, Hightower, Collins and, Fletcher?)

The D-line as is, with out an addition, is equilvalent to back then too, (McGinnest, Seymour, Pleasant, versus Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovitch, Tom Kelly, and Wilfork(?), Chris Jones, Sealver Siliga, Armon Armstead and Andre Carter)

Keep Brady upright. Fix the interior Offensive line before TFB ends up on IR. That is more important than a reserve TE behind Gronk, or a duplicative, 4th string, aging DE.