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ESPN:Is Tom Brady on the decline?


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Guys, you can put the "eyesight test" aside and look at the raw numbers....

I went to ESPN's split-stats page and looked up PASSES THROWN. Again, it's an air yards stat that measures the distance of the pass. So anyway, you can see it for yourself. However, I noticed that the mere attempts for "41+ yards" or even "31-40" are so small (often times you'll see 0 completions or just 1 or 2 attempts) that I simply decided to combine them. Really, if a QB can merely crack double-digits in completion for an entire season, it's like, utterly elite; that's how barren the stat-lines are here. So my stat box down below is "31+ yards." I simply added-up the "31-40" and the "41+" on espn's stat sheet to make the numbers less barren.

I compared Brady to a bunch of active QBs with enough years behind them (the stat didn't start until '02). The results? Brady is a little weaker. But! My biggest observation, by far, is that these stats rise/fall based on who the QB is throwing too. Brady's stats trump anyone's once Moss came in '07. Peyton Manning? His stats were utterly dominant....until Marvin Harrison left Indy after 07, then they became pretty 'meh'. How about Eli? His numbers were great when he had Plax and Toomer in '06. Toomer got hurt in 07 and Plax went to jail the following year and Eli's stats fell off. Drew Bress? He was the most eye-opening. His stats in San Diego were awful; I guess that's what no WRs and Marty Ball will bring you, lol. Anyway, from the very first season in New Orleans Drew Brees has been utterly astounding. Like, total turnaround.

So, yeah, I really do think this stat has more to do with the QB's weapons rather than the QB himself (assuming he's good), because the stats seem to fluctuate too much.


Code:
Passes Thrown 31+ yards
Player
Yr:	Comp/Att Yrd	TD INT

Brady
'02: 	03/22 	117 	0 1
'03: 	12/31 	566 	5 3
'04: 	12/38 	507 	3 3
'05: 	06/27 	164 	3 1
'06: 	07/25 	314 	3 3
'07: 	13/30 	622 	8 2
'09: 	06/30 	284 	4 4
[COLOR="Red"]'10: 	05/19 	225 	3 2
'11: 	01/15 	046 	0 0
'12:	06/21	256	3 1

AVG for these years  4/18.3  175.7 2 tds and 1 int[/COLOR]



PManning
'02: 	08/30 	322 	3 4
'03: 	11/31 	449 	6 0
'04: 	11/22 	400 	8 1
'05: 	09/26 	355 	7 2
'06: 	13/31 	560 	3 0
'07: 	10/27 	452 	6 2
'08: 	07/28 	363 	3 4
'09: 	07/27 	327 	3 2
'10: 	08/25 	347 	3 1
'12:	7/19	256	3 1

Roethlisberger:
'04: 	09/25 	361 	3 3
'05: 	07/13 	315 	1 1
'06: 	03/19 	336 	2 6
'07: 	09/18 	378 	6 2
'08: 	07/24 	306 	3 2
'09: 	10/24 	455 	5 2
'10: 	09/19 	377 	4 1
'11: 	07/27 	385 	4 2
'12:	05/19	279	4 0

Vick
'02: 	06/30 	298 	3 1
'03: 	03/08 	131 	1 1
'04: 	04/22 	180 	2 1
'05: 	06/27 	274 	1 3
'06: 	06/38 	298 	0 1
'10: 	08/20 	427 	3 1
'11: 	07/21 	335 	2 4
'12:	04/21	204	1 2

Rivers:
'06: 	07/30 	289 	3 0
'07: 	04/21 	164 	1 2
'08: 	10/24 	465 	4 1
'09: 	11/35 	520 	1 2
'10: 	08/21 	407 	5 3
'11: 	09/31 	370 	6 4
'12:	05/28	198	2 2	

Rodgers:
'09: 	09/31 	437 	2 2
'10: 	08/24 	381 	4 4
'11: 	11/20 	526 	6 0
'12:	06/16	268	3 1

Flacco:
'08: 	08/31 	409 	4 3
'09: 	07/28 	300 	4 4
'10: 	08/23 	385 	3 0
'11: 	07/33 	289 	3 1
'12:	10/42	407	3 0

Eli
'05: 	05/30 	221 	0 3
'06: 	10/25 	414 	5 4
'07: 	06/29 	252 	3 2
'08: 	05/20 	186 	3 1
'09: 	08/22 	335 	2 1
'10: 	07/29 	328 	6 2
'11: 	11/35 	624 	3 1
'12:	10/27	459	5 1

Brees
'02:	5/24	217	2 3
'03:	3/16	96	2 3
'04:	2/15	197	3 0
'05:	7/17	284	1 2
'06:	11/19	553	7 2
'07:	7/20	286	3 1
'08:	14/32	741	6 2
'09:	9/25	335	7 2
'10:	8/26	372	3 4
'11:	10/21	442	6 1
'12:	13/33	584	4 3

18.3 attemps in that range is too low. The personnel at WR was likely the reason we took so few attempts. This off season we have upgrade speed and size at the WR position while sacrificing experience. It may take some time but I think by the playoffs our offense will look a lot different than it did to end last season. Really nice Dobson or Boyce to hit though.
 
It's only going to get worse, Brady has to face the jets twice this season and Quentin Coples has already come up with a gameplan to shut him down, saying "If Brady tries to throw the ball I am just going to bat it down. He can't complete passes if I bat them down, right?"

I'm amazed it has taken coaches and defenders in the NFL this long to figure out what it has taken Coples less than a season to realize. And he has the backing of his coach, as Rex Ryan said at practice Tuesday "I think it would be unfair to Quentin to compare him to Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor when he really is a combination of White, Taylor, Ray Lewis, Darrelle Revis, and Deacon Jones. Quentin is really a special players."

Jets Fan!

Et tu, Ivan? Et Tu?
 
18.3 attemps in that range is too low. The personnel at WR was likely the reason we took so few attempts. This off season we have upgrade speed and size at the WR position while sacrificing experience. It may take some time but I think by the playoffs our offense will look a lot different than it did to end last season. Really nice Dobson or Boyce to hit though.

18 attempts of 31+ is too low? Eh. Maybe. But Peyton was at 19 last year; he was MVP calibur. Rodgers was at just 16. Those were the two best QBs last year, Brady aside. So what does 31+ amount to? Personally, I think deep throwing is the most overrated aspect of QB'ing. The stats are utterly miniscule. They fluctuate way too much, year to year. I think it has much more to do with who your deep threat is, assuming you have a good QB.

So, yes, I think Dobson will impact the numbers, albeit slightly.
 
Every year they say he is in decline and every year he gives MVP type season. the man is like the finest wine. if brett favre could play till he was 40 in a somewhat high level i dont see TFB not doing that considering the fact that he is WAY better than favre.
 
I'm thinking 3 phases:

Phase I
Holy crap who's this guy?????
(Dark side: He just gets lucky... over, and over, and over)

Phase II
The Manning War
Two QBs vie for "best in the league." To anybody not from Indy, Tom wins this... Peyton gets his ring, Tom proves he's a stats-God if you load up the receiving corps... but ends up on top in both battles, peak vs. peak

Phase III
Other QBs Exist
Both Tom and Peyton begin their "slides" toward career ends. Both get season ending injuries for the first time. More importantly, Brees and Rogers emerge, and others are waiting in the wings and making their names. The vultures are circling because they're both over 35. Let's be "first" to ask the question whether they aren't any good anymore.

Peyton's closer to the end chronologically, but coping. Tom's still playing at the level where you can't make practical use of the information, other than "preparation." It's not like you can swap him out for anybody else and get the same level of play.

Keep enjoying the ride guys. Hope we've got our eye on the Rogers to his Favre, the Young to his Montana, however you want to think of it.

This model's still on the road, but pretty soon all the triumphalists here because the Pats have been the most dominant team for more than a decade may be hopping off the train :(

Of course, there's always the possibility of the next Brady. Either way, it's a few years down the road. Brady's in advanced middle age here in QB terms. Hopefully it's a while longer before we start shopping nursing homes.
 
Brady's never been a GREAT deep passer. Moss' athleticism made his deep pass look good. Just like Brees' receivers do for him, Rodgers receivers are doing for him and Manning's receivers always did for him. Brady was supposed to lose to the Ravens... Let's face it, even Mallet looked confused during the fake punt, which would've otherwise worked, because the Ravens didn't seem to notice, until Mallett made it clear.

Brady doesn't have as much talent as Rodgers QB-wise. But he has much more smarts, better accuracy on intermediate passes and more knowledge of the game. He dictates defenses and carries an otherwise 7-9 team to 12 to 14 wins a season. Rodgers just throws the ball down the field, it's enough to win him 8-10 games a season, but it's not enough to get him in the SB (it seems for Brady, win or lose) almost every year. Brady's the best in the league, Rodgers and Brees just have the better highlight reel. So does Michael Vick and he's nowhere near Brady's level. It's about time for the haters pretending to be blind go on and admit the facts.
 
Brady doesn't have as much talent as Rodgers QB-wise. But he has much more smarts, better accuracy on intermediate passes and more knowledge of the game. He dictates defenses and carries an otherwise 7-9 team to 12 to 14 wins a season. Rodgers just throws the ball down the field,

Maybe not as much talent athleticism-wise but not QB-wise. I'd argue he has as much talent as Rodgers in terms of just strictly being a QB, maybe even more.

The guy is three drops away from having 6 SB rings.

2006 AFC Championship- Reche Caldwell drop
SB 42- Asante Samuel missed INT/Giants fluke Catch
SB 46- Welker drop
 
Brady's never been a GREAT deep passer. Moss' athleticism made his deep pass look good. Just like Brees' receivers do for him, Rodgers receivers are doing for him and Manning's receivers always did for him.

...and yet, for a guy who has never been a great deep passer...

Brady has 3 seasons where he reached double digits in completions. Yup, 3 seasons; so it wasn't just '07. P.Manning and Brees - widely regarded as two of the best -- only have just one more season than TFB at double digits in completions (4 seasons); no other QB beat that (that I've seen)

Brady's also cracked 500 yards in 3 seasons. Brees did it just twice, P.Manning just once (along with Rivers and Rogers). So no one tops Brady in this dept; not bad for someone who isn't great.

One of those seasons Brady threw for 600 yards; the only other guy to do that was Eli.

Oh, and Brady tied Peyton for the most TDs in a single season (8 total).


Yeah, for someone who allegedly isn't great at throwing deep, Brady has put up some great numbers (not just '07 either)...
 
I think the stat I like most about Brady is that single season interception percentage of 0.8

I know Damon Huard is considered the record holder, but I consider Brady the holder. Seeing is how Huard attempted 244 passes and only started 8 games. Whereas Brady all 16 and 492 pass attempts.

He had 4 INT all regular season. One which was on a last second throw it up and see what happens hail mary in end zone before overtime

Also that same season Manning went over a 3 game span of throwing 3, 4, and 4 INT against NE, SD an DAL.
 
I love ESPN...the station that covers what lebron ate that morning and will then do a 3 sec segment on NHL playoffs :bricks:
 
E! SPN

(10 char)
 
It's apparent that he is slipping, but not by far at all. My biggest concern though is if Brady gets taken out again and we are left with a JAG like Matt Cassel. I don't think Mallet is ready to step up. Heck he may never be ready.

I just hope that Brady realizes when the right time to step down is and he doesn't end up with a career ending injury like Favre because that's just depressing.
 
My biggest concern though is if Brady gets taken out again and we are left with a JAG like Matt Cassel. I don't think Mallet is ready to step up. Heck he may never be ready.

Take out rodgers..they have a JAG..take out Brees...JAG. Take out any superstar QB and that team will struggle to make/win in playoffs.
 
I love ESPN...the station that covers what lebron ate that morning and will then do a 3 sec segment on NHL playoffs :bricks:

If the Pens win you'll see FESPN go full blown nuclear about their Syd and Malkin, the Goo Gee Gaa Gaa Twins...the exact same empty vacuous, mongo ,fanboy crap they do for LeBronzed...
 
It's apparent that he is slipping, but not by far at all. My biggest concern though is if Brady gets taken out again and we are left with a JAG like Matt Cassel. I don't think Mallet is ready to step up. Heck he may never be ready.

I just hope that Brady realizes when the right time to step down is and he doesn't end up with a career ending injury like Favre because that's just depressing.

In what way is he actually slipping? SB appearance last year,AFC game this year. He led an historic offense with injuries along the O-line, no deep threat and two of his top 3 targets injured at one time or another and with his main weapon gone for the playoffs. I just don't get it. Brady had a bad game vs the ravens but it's not like he had a whole lot of help. How about somebody else making a play for a change? All Flacco does at times is just throw it up and surprise surprise Boldin just beat the guy who was covering him. Peyton Manning just one and done'd another season with his killer picks in a game where he couldn't throw the ball further than 10 yards and it's Brady who is slipping. No QB is as consistently successful as Brady and gets so little respect for it.
 
to be fair, when you are top of the mountain the only direction you can go is down.
 
Brady is getting old......if he hasn't slipped yet, doing so in the not too distant future is not an unreasonable notion

in the mean time, there's nobody even close to being able to replace him, so there's no point to this......the pats ran the ball more than anyone except seattle last year...... expect more of the same, and expect more work on a game plan that minimized brady's exposure to harm
 
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