Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety?

Double TE said:

Guess thats why Bill went after Lynch a while back, eh? Just not enough good ones out there.

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Do you actually mean John Lynch, who was brought in 4 years ago or are you referring to Laron Landry??

vuudu said:

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With his hands like that, it looks like Chung's saying, "You drop the ball, you mean man!" And he proceeds baby slapping him.

Are you related to Spikes? I like your list, but I would move Spikes down a notch.

patsinthesnow said:

IMO if I had to rate the defensive starters into categories:

All-Pro-best in the league (Revis, D'ware, etc)
-Vince Wilfork

Pro-bowl Caliber/Great players
-Jerod Mayo
-Brandon Spikes
-Chandler Jones

Solid/Good players
-Kyle Love
-Rob Ninkovich
-Devin Mccourty
-Dont'a Hightower
-Tavon Wilson

Below average/mediocre
-Kyle Arrington
-Steve Gregory
-Patrick Chung

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patsinthesnow said:

I don't know what happened to Arrington really

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Arrington was never a good corner, especially a "cover" corner. He was in the same league as Ellis Hobbs, and that is probably why Arrington changed his number from 27 to 24, people thought Hobbs was back.

What helped Arrington look good in the eyes of many fans was a number... the number seven. Youhave no idea how many times the number of interceptions he had last season, a team leading 7, has been mentioned by people saying he is a good cornerback.

And, I tell them all the same thing, go and look at the videos of those seven interceptions. What they will see is, perhaps, one of the luckiest players on the field.

On five of those interceptions, and this is not a lie, he was out of position. No receiver near him. He was standing alone and the ball was either tipped to him or it was a badly thrown ball by the quarterback that sailed right to him.

One of his interceptions that he got credit for was when he was laying flat on the ground and the ball, actually, rolled onto his stomach. Go ahead, be my guest,go back and look at them and that is exactly what you will see.

What I DO give him credit for is good yards after the int. However, that might be a little skewed also as there normally isn't any opposition receiver anywhere near him to make the tackle because he has been beaten so badly.

So, to answer your question, "what happened to Arrington?" The answer is simple, His luck ran out.

patsinthesnow said:

IMO if I had to rate the defensive starters into categories:

All-Pro-best in the league (Revis, D'ware, etc)
-Vince Wilfork

Pro-bowl Caliber/Great players
-Jerod Mayo
-Brandon Spikes
-Chandler Jones

Solid/Good players
-Kyle Love
-Rob Ninkovich
-Devin Mccourty
-Dont'a Hightower
-Tavon Wilson

Below average/mediocre
-Kyle Arrington
-Steve Gregory
-Patrick Chung

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Sorry, but I disagree on two players. Spikes, down one notch with great potential and will, probably, become a pro bowl player, perhaps even this season.

And on Chung, you are falling for the topical discussion in this forum. Chung is a decent player. He goes from hot to cold and back, to hot, but he does a reasonably decent job, MOST OF THE TIME. As it usually is with most players, make a bad play, a potentially costly one, and that sticks in people's minds and sometimes they come to a wrong conclusion because of it.

At this time, I would move him UP a notch in your list.

And, one minor addition, move Arrington down one category. Oh wait, you say there is no lower category. Well, then make one for Arrington.

Chung looks like he's thinking to much on the field, taking bad angles and reading the play a split second to late.. Not sure if the thought of him being a FA at the end of the year and trying to stay healthy is hampering his play..

Any ways, His play has been well below average for about 20 games.. I would have thought last years play was due to the lockout but he's actually looking the same, maybe worse..

I'm a fan of letting this kid go and moving McCourty over.. Devin is a great tackler and plays VERY well with the ball in front of him..

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Size-wise, I don't think you'd lose much with McCourty or Ras-I at safety. Chung is morphing into Brandon Meriweather, except not as fast. Or maybe James Sanders, except not as smart. Just good enough to stay on the field, not good enough to make any plays when he's on it. Not quick or fast enough to be of any help to the CBs on downfield throws. I don't know if that's a lack of physical ability or instincts. A JAG safety, IMO. I think the Patriots were thinking they were going to be able to get Delmas, but when Detroit took him, they went with the next best safety on their board instead of the next best player on their board.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Well below average in coverage. About average in run support.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Deus Irae said:

If he were being used as an in-the-box safety, he'd be fine in terms of his skill set. He can diagnose the run and tackle moving forward. He's terrible in coverage, though, despite the Patriots trying to force his development in that area since the day he arrived on the scene. He's also not a huge guy (207 lbs), so this isn't a case where he'd be well served to just play the roll of a hammer, either.

If he asks for real coin next year, they should let him walk.


Just my $.02

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I think this is the most accurate assessment you're going to get here OP. There are good in the box run support safeties, there are good ball hawking coverage safeties, and then there are the rare talents (Harrison, Reed, Polamalu) who can be both, at least to competent degrees.

Chung is in the first category, which is probably as good as we should expect now. Chances are he won't get better before another team overpays for him and he walks.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

I'd say average, the type of player you can win with but, whose play you'd want improved upon if possible.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

He is a guy who is on a downward slide. Perhaps it is injuries, maybe being asked to do more - not exactly sure, but I lean towards injuries. He always looked best when pressuring the QB, but hardly see him do that anymore. He absolutely sucks in coverage - way below average. Run support seems to be on the slide as well - so I say he is somewhere between average and below. Overall, I say below average. He is looking especially bad this year - so I hope he turns it around.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

BradyFTW! said:

I think a lot of the uncertainty and confusion around here will go away once people just accept that is isn't particularly good. He has regressed this year, but I don't understand why people are acting like he went from a Pro Bowler to where he is now. He was never much better than average.

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No ones acting likes he was a Pro Bowler, but he was a very good player in his sophomore year.

3 INT, 2 blocked kicks, 4 TKL, 9 PD, 96 Tackles.


He was injured last year, and when he came back the defense improved a lot (along with Spikes).



This year he just seems tentative. Playing safe instead of going for contact.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Above average in playing the run. Below average in playing the pass. Injured more than the average player. Put it together you get a below avg safety. Given that pass defense is a bigger problem for us than run defense I'd like to see a change next season.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

I think that changes in football, specifically more regulations about leading with the head, hitting receivers in defenseless positions, etc., have hurt Chung's game.

He's a hitter in the mold of old time safeties, and that part of the game has gone / is going away, and he's having trouble adapting.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Chung is above average in the box but below average in coverage. I think we keep him for the remainder of the season but we will not make a big bid for him in free agency therefore he will have a new team in 2013. Pats have a need at safety for 2013 and will either address it in the draft or through free agency. The problem with switching McCourty to safety is

A) we don't know if he can play safety well
B) who would we use to replace him at corner?
1 decent game at nickel by Dennard does not a starting player make. not to mention he's also a rookie so I don't think he's ready yet until he has proven himself a lot more to warrant a switch.

Double TE said:

Would someone who understands football better than me...a simple fan please answer this.

Is Patrick Chung an average safety, above average, below average? I just from my observation do not see him as a playmaker OR a nasty tackler. That one play where Thomas caught that pass and Chung was right there he did not make the play. When Rodney was back there he seemed to be intimidating AND would make critical INTs frequently. Chung is a good dude and seems to give 100% at all times but talent wise is he just a C player?

Would the Pats be better served with Wilson and McCourty as starting safeties and Dennard and Arrington as starting CBs?

Just curious

Thanks

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Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

I feel Chung has regressed so far this year. He's always been an average safety but this year he's slightly below average I would say. He's just terrible in coverage.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

MrNathanDrake said:

No ones acting likes he was a Pro Bowler, but he was a very good player in his sophomore year.

3 INT, 2 blocked kicks, 4 TKL, 9 PD, 96 Tackles.


He was injured last year, and when he came back the defense improved a lot (along with Spikes).



This year he just seems tentative. Playing safe instead of going for contact.

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Look at this Sophomore season stats from a Pro-Bowl safety:

4 INT, 2 Sacks, 9 PD, 83 Tackles.

Yeah, this was Meriweather in 2008. The point is, you can't judge secondary players merely by looking at their stats, especially when most of those were accumulated in a single game (against Miami, in Chung's case). Chung is average at best. It's time people around here start dealing with that fact, because he probably isn't going to be around next season.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Alfred said:

He will be here. Why, you ask? Because, overall, he is a good safety, period.

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Overall what? His only good attribute is being a good tackler. That's it. He's not a force against the running game, he's never shown an ability to get to the QB when blitzing, he's often late with support up top, he's always right there, but never makes a play on crossing routes, I don't recall him doing a good job when matched up 1-on-1 against big TEs, and the list goes on. He's not atrocious at any aspect of the game, but he doesn't do nearly enough to be considered "good" by any stretch.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Just using my naked eye test he is not very good in coverage and not really a nasty tackler either. Its annoying because he seems to be a really good team guy. But he is neither a hitter nor a ball hawk he is just well...there.

I am glad we drafted Wilson because he looks like an athletic hitter and good ball hawk. I like seeing him out there more than Chung and he is a rookie. I'd rather see Wilson and Troy Brown out there LOL.

Re: Patrick Chung question please: average, above average or below average NFL safety

Alfred said:

He will be here. Why, you ask? Because, overall, he is a good safety, period.

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How so? Please explain what he's good at, what he's average at, and what he's bad at, that would lead you to conclude that overall he is good?