FoxSports Radio: DeAngelo Hall will be traded by draft

[BradyManny]

I don't think the statement is accurate, if you think they'll improve to Asante's level, then you can also assume Asante's level of play would have increased. I think Hall would be over kill unless we get him for short money for a year. I think we need to adddress our linebacker corp and add some youth, then see what we can add to our pass coverage.

But I don't think Asante's level of play would've increased. I don't think it was at nearly as high a level as some make it out to be.

Honestly, I'd rather beef up the LB corp and pass rush and go into camp with a couple of JAGs than worry about getting a "#1" corner like Asante or Hall or whoever.

Ask yourself how useful Asante is as a "shutdown corner" if Belichick opts to use Hobbs (and a banged up Hobbs dealing with two injuries) on Plaxico in an all-out blitz that was to make or break the Super Bowl. Maybe - as many posters here have said - the difference between the two's coverage ability is not as wide a gap as it may seem. Hobbs - who more often than not drew tougher assignments - kept Plaxico quiet all game.

 

[BradyManny]

I feel like if people keep saying this enough, he's going to become decidedly underrated. People seem to be bucking against the opinion that Asante was the best cornerback in the league, the problem with that being that I don't think anybody was actually of that opinion. In general, I think people around here have been pretty modest in their assessments of Asante's talent (which is a common defense mechanism when you know someone's walking). He's well better than average, maybe even very good, but not "great". I think that's the majority opinion. I don't know who you still think is overrating him.

The Philadelphia Eagles front office for one . Plus, I think you're severely underestimating the contingency of posters here who think we will have considerable trouble dealing with Asante's loss and that Asante was the best corner in the league.

 

[signbabybrady]

I feel like if people keep saying this enough, he's going to become decidedly underrated. People seem to be bucking against the opinion that Asante was the best cornerback in the league, the problem with that being that I don't think anybody was actually of that opinion. In general, I think people around here have been pretty modest in their assessments of Asante's talent (which is a common defense mechanism when you know someone's walking). He's well better than average, maybe even very good, but not "great". I think that's the majority opinion. I don't know who you still think is overrating him.

If you ask me Asante is one of the best CBs in the league right now. He will do good things with the Eagles. IMO he may even be better there than he was here because he will be asked to do more on his own as they blitz alot and he will be left alone alot and he will handle it just fine.

 

[Rob0729]

I feel like if people keep saying this enough, he's going to become decidedly underrated. People seem to be bucking against the opinion that Asante was the best cornerback in the league, the problem with that being that I don't think anybody was actually of that opinion. In general, I think people around here have been pretty modest in their assessments of Asante's talent (which is a common defense mechanism when you know someone's walking). He's well better than average, maybe even very good, but not "great". I think that's the majority opinion. I don't know who you still think is overrating him.

Many people around the league feel that Samuel is a product of the Pats system and that he is not a good man-to-man CB. I don't think it is just around here.

I personally think he is a bit overrated and agree that he isn't a great man-to-man CB, but I think he is a top CB as long as he is in a system that plays a lot of zone.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Hall isn't the player that Dillon was or Moss is. Also, both Dillon and Moss took "prove it to me" deals to come to the Pats. Hall wants "You know what I am so pay me" deal right now. So there is no way I see the situations are the same between Hall and Moss or Dillon unless the Pats only have to give up a fourth rounder or less (yeah, I know the Pats gave up a second for Dillon, but he took a way below market deal to come here) and Hall agrees to play out his deal or the Pats or we trade for Hall for more and he takes a multiyear deal well below his demands of $10 million a year (like $5-6 million a year). I definitely don't see the later happening and I doubt the former will either.

Hall is also 25 years old. And yes, talent-wise, he is very much as good a CB as Dillon was a RB in his prime (I wouldn't put him on Moss' level). You're acting like this is Pacman Jones we're talking about, Hall has all the talent in the world AND has stayed on the field. A lot of shine came off him last year because of the well publicized feud with Petrino, but I think we see now who the jerk in that situation was. Hall is an elite talent, and if you think anything other than that, you're wrong.

 

[signbabybrady]

Many people around the league feel that Samuel is a product of the Pats system and that he is not a good man-to-man CB. I don't think it is just around here.

I personally think he is a bit overrated and agree that he isn't a great man-to-man CB, but I think he is a top CB as long as he is in a system that plays a lot of zone.

I just posted above that I think he will do just fine in man to man. He has great instincts and speed and will do fine.

 

[BradyManny]

I personally think he is a bit overrated and agree that he isn't a great man-to-man CB, but I think he is a top CB as long as he is in a system that plays a lot of zone.

Right, and the premium for that is a little lower, thus Asante is overvalued, and anyone who wanted us to fork over a boatload of money to him isn't recognizing this. IE, CBs who are viewed as potential shutdown man corners will go in round 1, and we can find some good zone corners in rounds 2-4.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Many people around the league feel that Samuel is a product of the Pats system and that he is not a good man-to-man CB. I don't think it is just around here.

I personally think he is a bit overrated and agree that he isn't a great man-to-man CB, but I think he is a top CB as long as he is in a system that plays a lot of zone.

You need to look up the definition of overrated. If that is the consensus of people around the league (and I agree it is to some extent) than he was definitely NOT overrated. Maybe by the Eagles front office, but I think you're suggesting that most people have a pretty good idea what his talent level is.

 

[Rob0729]

I just posted above that I think he will do just fine in man to man. He has great instincts and speed and will do fine.

He has never been a good man-to-man CB. I disagree with you on that. He isn't the most physical CB and will have trouble playing man up with a big WR. His insticts suits him better in a zone.

 

[Deus Irae]

But I don't think Asante's level of play would've increased. I don't think it was at nearly as high a level as some make it out to be.

Honestly, I'd rather beef up the LB corp and pass rush and go into camp with a couple of JAGs than worry about getting a "#1" corner like Asante or Hall or whoever.

Ask yourself how useful Asante is as a "shutdown corner" if Belichick opts to use Hobbs (and a banged up Hobbs dealing with two injuries) on Plaxico in an all-out blitz that was to make or break the Super Bowl. Maybe - as many posters here have said - the difference between the two's coverage ability is not as wide a gap as it may seem. Hobbs - who more often than not drew tougher assignments - kept Plaxico quiet all game.

We all make mistakes on player evaluation, even once the players are in the league, but I've been calling Hobbs the better cover corner for some time now. It should be interesting to see and evaluate Hobbs and Samuel on opposing teams in the upcoming season.

As for Hall, to me the question is: what is the highest pick you are willing to give up in order to rent a player for a season? My thinking is that there's just no way New England will give up that #7 pick, and I'd imagine some other team would give up more than the Patriots' second rounder as well as giving him a new contract, so I don't see how he would end up in New England.

 

[Watson's IQ]

As for Hall, to me the question is: what is the highest pick you are willing to give up in order to rent a player for a season? My thinking is that there's just no way New England will give up that #7 pick, and I'd imagine some other team would give up more than the Patriots' second rounder as well as giving him a new contract, so I don't see how he would end up in New England.

That's a good point. Remember that Hall himself was the 8th overall selection 4 years ago, and still has first round talent with a bit more seasoning. That said, I agree with you that I wouldn't give up #7 for a one year rental, however I'm not going to agree with those who say he's not worth a long term contract, because I think he is.

 

[BRiZ]

thought about this scenario before.

Pats trade #7 pick to Atlanta for CB DeAngelo Hall and their 2009 1st round pick.

Pats get a CB to replace Samuel and in 2009 will have two 1st rounders to trade up for ILB REY MAUALUGA.

Atlanta can take Matt Ryan at #3 and could have taken Darren McFadden at #7 probably but they just signed Turner so...they could still get one of the DT's probably.

 

[RussFrancis]

That's a good point. Remember that Hall himself was the 8th overall selection 4 years ago, and still has first round talent with a bit more seasoning. That said, I agree with you that I wouldn't give up #7 for a one year rental, however I'm not going to agree with those who say he's not worth a long term contract, because I think he is.

The guy's absolutely worth a long-term deal. But at what price? $9mil a year? I dont see it. That kindof deal just collides with management philosophy here. With Brady or Moss, we're talking about 2 all-timers. You break the bank for guys like these. And with Seymour, he's anchoring the line where games are won and lost. And he has 3 rings. Hall should get a long term deal somewhere. But he's not an all-timer. I know he's not the best CB right now. I dont even know where on the short list he falls. But to keep this simple, I wouldnt want Hall because imo he's the 'Ray Lewis' of CBs. He's a great player, but his dance and his mouth outshine his game. And that just wont work here.

 

[Deus Irae]

thought about this scenario before.

Pats trade #7 pick to Atlanta for CB DeAngelo Hall and their 2009 1st round pick.

Pats get a CB to replace Samuel and in 2009 will have two 1st rounders to trade up for ILB REY MAUALUGA.

Atlanta can take Matt Ryan at #3 and could have taken Darren McFadden at #7 probably but they just signed Turner so...they could still get one of the DT's probably.

Atlanta is likely going to suck again this season. Why would they give up a top 5-10 pick in next year's draft?

 

[BRiZ]

Atlanta is likely going to suck again this season. Why would they give up a top 5-10 pick in next year's draft?

Cause they are guaranteed the #7 pick in the 2008 draft (theres no guarantee they would have a pick in the 5-10 range in 2009, could be middle of the road like 15-ish), and before they signed Turner they were flip flopping between Ryan and McFadden, they could have gotten both of them maybe with the #3 and #7 pick. But now that they got Turner i dont know if they would be too interested in doing the trade unless they covet another player like Long, Dorsey, Ellis ect.

 

[signbabybrady]

Atlanta is likely going to suck again this season. Why would they give up a top 5-10 pick in next year's draft?

not that I think the trade scenario was a good one

but what would be better next year for said struggling team, top ten pick or a top ten pick last year with a years experience.

 

[Deus Irae]

not that I think the trade scenario was a good one

but what would be better next year for said struggling team, top ten pick or a top ten pick last year with a years experience.

So you think Atlanta would trade Hall for one year's experience of a player? That's the totality of Brist's trade idea: Hall and next year's Falcons pick for this year's Patriots pick.

Pats trade #7 pick to Atlanta for CB DeAngelo Hall and their 2009 1st round pick

Even Al Davis isn't crazy enough to think that's a good move for Atlanta.

 

[signbabybrady]

So you think Atlanta would trade Hall for one year's experience of a player? That's the totality of Brist's trade idea: Hall and next year's Falcons pick for this year's Patriots pick.



Even Al Davis isn't crazy enough to think that's a good move for Atlanta.

Originally Posted by signbabybrady
not that I think the trade scenario was a good one

That should answer your question.

 

[Rob0729]

You need to look up the definition of overrated. If that is the consensus of people around the league (and I agree it is to some extent) than he was definitely NOT overrated. Maybe by the Eagles front office, but I think you're suggesting that most people have a pretty good idea what his talent level is.

I don't think it is the consensus around the league that he isn't overrated. Actually, I think the consensus is that he is slightly overrated, but the best free agent available on a very week free agent market. If there were a lot of very good free agents and/or people weren't seriously overpaying for average to mediocre free agents, I think the Samuel deal would have raised a lot of eyebrows.

 

[Rob0729]

Hall is also 25 years old. And yes, talent-wise, he is very much as good a CB as Dillon was a RB in his prime (I wouldn't put him on Moss' level). You're acting like this is Pacman Jones we're talking about, Hall has all the talent in the world AND has stayed on the field. A lot of shine came off him last year because of the well publicized feud with Petrino, but I think we see now who the jerk in that situation was. Hall is an elite talent, and if you think anything other than that, you're wrong.

I am talking about a good, not great CB looking to be one of the highest paid CBs in the league. It has little to do with his attitude. It has to do with him looking for a contract that will pay him $10 million a year. That means either we have to give him a Asante Samuel type of deal or treat him like a rent a player that we will get for one or two years (depending if we want to use the franchise tag on him after this season or not) and let him leave to free agency.

Hall is an above average talent living off his reputation. If we are going to give him an Asante Samuel type of contract, we should have kept Asante. You are entitled to your opinion, but you will find few who will agree that he is an elite talent or even better than Samuel.