FoxSports Radio: DeAngelo Hall will be traded by draft

[RussFrancis]

what about

Hall

for

Pats 2008 2nd round pick and 2009 1st round pick

If New England were in the same situation and about $25-30mil under the cap, the trade itself would be worth considering. But that's not the case, or they would have just kept Samuel. Not an entirely unrealistic trade, but this guy's never coming to this team.

 

[Rob0729]

what about

Hall

for

Pats 2008 2nd round pick and 2009 1st round pick

I would never do that. You are asking the Pats to give up two first day picks for a CB who is not as good as Asante Samuel, but wants around as much money as Samuel. If you made that deal, you would have to give Hall his $10 million a year. Why would you do that?

 

[BRiZ]

The trade blows. Big, meaty chunks.

your a neanderthal if you think the trade blows. Hall and Maualuga is probably better than anything we could get this year and next year at the #32 pick.

And Matt Ryan and (McFadden, Dorsey, Ellis, Jake Long ect) plus a filler pick (that you are blowing your load over) is probably better than anything Atlanta will get this year at #3 and next year at where ever they are picking (probably not top 10 cuz their div blows and Atlanta added two impact players 3 if you count Turner). You do know Atlanta has two second rounders and could easily replace Hall with one of them?

 

[Deus Irae]

your a neanderthal if you think the trade blows. Hall and Maualuga is probably better than anything we could get this year and next year at the #32 pick.

And Matt Ryan and (McFadden, Dorsey, Ellis, Jake Long ect) plus a filler pick (that you are blowing your load over) is probably better than anything Atlanta will get this year at #3 and next year at where ever they are picking (probably not top 10 cuz their div blows and Atlanta added two impact players 3 if you count Turner). You do know Atlanta has two second rounders and could easily replace Hall with one of them?

Wow.... you really don't know football.

Well, have a nice day.

 

[BRiZ]

Wow.... you really don't know football.

Well, have a nice day.

i know more than you.

 

[ScottieC]

Seriously. He is not Patriots material.

Indeed. I live in the ATL and this guy is a nightmare. We don't want him. Not to mention that he's just not THAT good. He's living proof that a few lucky and well timed INT's get you way more credit than you are due.

Kinda like a New York QB having a lucky 4 game winning streak, all of a sudden the dude walks on water......I'm soooooooooooooo bitter!

 

[Clonamery]

i know more than you.

So there!.....(imagine me sticking out my tongue. I would post a cartoon of a figure sticking out their tongue but one cartoonish response is enough.)

 

[Gumby]

Not sure I think hall is a good answer for Patriots (I give a lot of credence to the 'if Dimitroff doesn't want him then we don't' argument). But the counter to that is the Sanders quote that he is a hard worker and the other stuff is overblown. So I really don't know what to think.

But i find at least part of Rob0729's argument against the deal not valid.

B.) Hall wants Samuel money and he isn't as good and it will probably take a second or third rounder to get him. If we are willing to give up that much for Hall, why didn't we just keep Samuel?

I would never do that. You are asking the Pats to give up two first day picks for a CB who is not as good as Asante Samuel, but wants around as much money as Samuel. If you made that deal, you would have to give Hall his $10 million a year. Why would you do that?

ok - we DIDN'T KEEP SAMUEL; because he costs too much THIS YEAR. with the cap hit to keep Moss it was clearly one or the other and no one on this board, I think, would argue against that Moss is more important to overall team.

When you are looking at Hall; if he comes to us with 1 YEAR left on his ROOKIE contract - then at least next year he won't cost us anywhere near what Samuel would have cost. And the following year......

Worst case (assuming he performs as above avg to probowl level) - hall is good and we want to keep him and we have to FRANCHISE him. That is still 2 years of a great CB at an AVERAGE COST per year; of maybe 50-60% of the cost of Samuel. And we get to defer his big cap hit cost to when we can afford it.

Best case: he works out an extension or re-signs during the year next year and he gets money spread out over several year with a manageable cap hit. (After the big spike of Brady-Moss-Sey-Warren cap gets pared down.) Again we defer cap hit to when we can afford it - which we could not with Samuel.

Pats have proven with both Ty Law and Asante that they are willing to pay TOP 5 money to at least ONE Great CB at a time. SO this is NOT out of the realm of probable or possible.

To use Samuel as a reason to not do a deal with Hall is bad logic (IMO). There are other reasons for not doing the deal. this ain't one of them.

Now I said all that without anyone anywhere in this thread actually stating categorically WHAT IS HIS SALARY-CAP HIT (to the new team) for 2008-9 if he is traded under his EXISTING CONTRACT. If someone knows that - it might actually help the discussion.

 

[Seneschal2]

Some points to consider...

• Our top 3 roster CBs arrived on board as R3, R4, and undrafted (Hobbs, Samuel, Gay)

• This is a CB heavy draft

• The Pats have 4 of the top 100 selections (maybe one more if we trade down from #7)

Summation: Isn't it at all possible that BB could find a 'diamond in the rough' type CB, with starting ability, who fits his defense, anywhere from round one to round three?

The answer of course is yes -- because BB has done just that with Hobbs and Samuel being selected with the 84th and 120th picks respectively. All signs point to BB being successful once again in finding a starter...simply because the CB class is deep...and he knows the position very well.

Avoid signing a high priced CB. Save the money toward other veteran acquisitions be it FA/ RFA/ cuts. Fill the CB position via the draft.

 

[Gumby]

The answer of course is yes -- because BB has done just that with Hobbs and Samuel being selected with the 84th and 120th picks respectively. All signs point to BB being successful once again in finding a starter...simply because the CB class is deep...and he knows the position very well.

ok- but how many of those guys started the year they were drafted???

its a little different finding a diamond in rough for the team in 2 years versus drafting for NEED.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure I think hall is a good answer for Patriots (I give a lot of credence to the 'if Dimitroff doesn't want him then we don't' argument). But the counter to that is the Sanders quote that he is a hard worker and the other stuff is overblown. So I really don't know what to think.

But i find at least part of Rob0729's argument against the deal not valid.





ok - we DIDN'T KEEP SAMUEL; because he costs too much THIS YEAR. with the cap hit to keep Moss it was clearly one or the other and no one on this board, I think, would argue against that Moss is more important to overall team.

When you are looking at Hall; if he comes to us with 1 YEAR left on his ROOKIE contract - then at least next year he won't cost us anywhere near what Samuel would have cost. And the following year......

Worst case (assuming he performs as above avg to probowl level) - hall is good and we want to keep him and we have to FRANCHISE him. That is still 2 years of a great CB at an AVERAGE COST per year; of maybe 50-60% of the cost of Samuel. And we get to defer his big cap hit cost to when we can afford it.

Best case: he works out an extension or re-signs during the year next year and he gets money spread out over several year with a manageable cap hit. (After the big spike of Brady-Moss-Sey-Warren cap gets pared down.) Again we defer cap hit to when we can afford it - which we could not with Samuel.

Pats have proven with both Ty Law and Asante that they are willing to pay TOP 5 money to at least ONE Great CB at a time. SO this is NOT out of the realm of probable or possible.

To use Samuel as a reason to not do a deal with Hall is bad logic (IMO). There are other reasons for not doing the deal. this ain't one of them.

Now I said all that without anyone anywhere in this thread actually stating categorically WHAT IS HIS SALARY-CAP HIT (to the new team) for 2008-9 if he is traded under his EXISTING CONTRACT. If someone knows that - it might actually help the discussion.

And Hall won't cost too much this year? The Pats aren't going to trade a high draft pick especially not a first round draft pick unless they can get a new deal for Hall. You are kidding yourself if you think the Pats are going to give up that much for a rent a players.

If the Pats wanted to keep Samuel, they could have certainly worked the cap to minimize the cap hit this year. The fact of the matter is they do not see the point of paying a CB $10 million a year.

BTW, next year if the Pats wanted to get a deal done with Hall, it is almost certain that it would cost MORE to resign Hall. The cap will go up and more teams will have tons of cash and pay even more for free agents driving up the prices. Look at Calvin Pace. He got more than Adalius Thomas and no one thinks he is worth more than Adalius Thomas. Especially since Pace has had only one good year in his career.

Again, this is all moot since there is little to no chance that Hall is coming here. Dimitroff doesn't think he is a Patriots type of player that will hold a lot of weight with Belichick and Pioli and Hall has said that he doesn't want to play for the Patriots. How is this trade going to get done when from all indications, no one wants this deal to get done.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Some points to consider...

• Our top 3 roster CBs arrived on board as R3, R4, and undrafted (Hobbs, Samuel, Gay)

• This is a CB heavy draft

• The Pats have 4 of the top 100 selections (maybe one more if we trade down from #7)

Summation: Isn't it at all possible that BB could find a 'diamond in the rough' type CB, with starting ability, who fits his defense, anywhere from round one to round three?

The answer of course is yes -- because BB has done just that with Hobbs and Samuel being selected with the 84th and 120th picks respectively. All signs point to BB being successful once again in finding a starter...simply because the CB class is deep...and he knows the position very well.

Avoid signing a high priced CB. Save the money toward other veteran acquisitions be it FA/ RFA/ cuts. Fill the CB position via the draft.

Good points, and I don't even think there has to be a diamond in the rough. Based on their scouting reports, a guy like Godfrey or Porter or Jackson would fit well in our zone, and might be had with the late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

[sc patriot]

so who would be some decent zone corners making decent money the Pats could trade a 4th of 5th for? or what coners would be available in the 2nd to 5th rounds that would fit with the Pats?

There is a 0% chance Hall or a corner that wants that type of money comes here.

Hall may sign here in 2018 when he will sign cheap for a ring.

 

[BRiZ]

dont you guys think Hall may take a discount to play for the Patriots? I mean he is always complaining about not winning in Atlanta and wants to play for a winner. I dont think he would command Samuel type money here, not even close.

 

[Rob0729]

dont you guys think Hall may take a discount to play for the Patriots? I mean he is always complaining about not winning in Atlanta and wants to play for a winner. I dont think he would command Samuel type money here, not even close.

Not one red cent. He has already said that he doesn't want to play for the Patriots. He has also said no matter who he plays with he wants $10 million a year. I don't see him taking any discount to come to play for the Patriots.

 

[BRiZ]

Not one red cent. He has already said that he doesn't want to play for the Patriots. He has also said no matter who he plays with he wants $10 million a year. I don't see him taking any discount to come to play for the Patriots.

lol well i guess thats that heehee.

Hes going to be hard to trade to any team if he wants 10 mill. I doubt that he really meant it when he said he doesnt want to play for the Pats.

 

[DW Toys]

Not one red cent. He has already said that he doesn't want to play for the Patriots. He has also said no matter who he plays with he wants $10 million a year. I don't see him taking any discount to come to play for the Patriots.

Need to see the thread on that. I never heard of Hall saying no to the Pats. Unfounded rumor!
DW Toys

 

[Rob0729]

lol well i guess thats that heehee.

Hes going to be hard to trade to any team if he wants 10 mill. I doubt that he really meant it when he said he doesnt want to play for the Pats.

No I think he definitely meant it. And I don't think the Pats want him either. He was told by Pioli's former #2 man that he is not a "Patriots type of player" and he said he doesn't want to be a Patriots player. I think he meant it.

Why do you think Hall hasn't been traded? The Giants have already reported backed off a trade for him because of his contract demands.

 

[DW Toys]

dont you guys think Hall may take a discount to play for the Patriots? I mean he is always complaining about not winning in Atlanta and wants to play for a winner. I dont think he would command Samuel type money here, not even close.

Cousins,
O.K. This is long winded so if you don't want to view it pass and go to the next thread. It's just for fun, but not completely impossible. It shows how we maybe can get a D. Hall and a few others that make sense. This draft is starting to scare me. A lot of negatives floating. I am starting to think trade more and more. We did ok last year with Randy and Wes.

TRADING DRAFT CHOICES FOR PROVEN COMMODITIES?
The 2008 NFL Draft awaits. This is long so if you don’t want to read it, don’t. I believe that trades shall be on the increase in the 08 season with the new CAP space because there are less CAP type casualty cuts of superior players as in past years, and thus less of a FA pool on the market.

This is just my opinion, but if you consider it, these trades and choices are feasible. Of Course CAP limitations and signability are a factor in every trade. This upgrades the N.E. Patriots with less risk than all draft choices. We have sprinkled a few in. Besides it’s fun to contemplate and envision what each player can add.

The main deal? This has been mentioned. Brooking and Hall and the Falcons second round choice #35 (530 pts) for the Pats first round #7 (1,500 pts ) and Gutierrez and Kaczur (pending signing of Brooking and Hall).New Atlanta GM Tom Dimitroff is fresh from the N.E. organization and has a wealth of knowledge about some of the Pats roster that could help the rebuilding Falcons.

The Pats need a CB and some linebacker help. The Falcons need a QB and OT. Mostly the Falcons need to get some young studs to build on and two “blue chippers” would help the box office as well and new enthusiasm for a beleaguered franchise.

In my humble opinion, the new Dolphins honcho Parcells will have to go with QB Matt Ryan if he cannot trade the pick. So for the Falcons, Ryan will be off the board. The answer also has a year of NFL experience under his belt, little that there was. Dimitroff likes Gutierrez and knows what he is getting. In my opinion Gutierrez would be the value of the second best QB in this years draft class.

Also from the Pats is OT Nick Kaczur. He is at his best in the running game and with new RB Michael Turner, he could right for the Falcons style offense.

The Pats need a CB and have a preference for well experienced LBs rather than drafting rookies there. First the CB. That would have to be the emotional DeAngelo Hall who is on his last year of contract. If (and only if) the Pats could sign an extension with him for reasonable dollars, this deal could work. If the Pats could get Hall for close to what the Franchised CB price was last year ($7.6mm) they could be interested. I think that the low $8mm range would get it done long term with some incentives that the Hall camp would accept. The Pats won’t go $9mm or they had kept Samuel. How much will the unproven Matt Ryan get if he is the #1 pick? How much will the cost of a #7 be? The price may be close. The have a disgruntled CB looking to shoot his way out of town that states emphatically he is not coming back (see D. Branch/Pats rift two years ago).

Piece two would be Keith Brooking. The 08 $10mm salary owed is not going to happen and he could be CAP cut unless he restructures. Brooking would have to agree to restructure and perhaps a two-year contract with NE and Seau type money will get it done. Now Brooking has a chance for a SB ring as well.

The Pats just missed out on ILB Zach Thomas. The veteran LB option is still a priority in a N.E line up and I think Brooking might have more tread left.

The Pats will still go CB and LB in the draft, but the urgency to produce right now for those kids is tempered.

Pats trade second rounder just obtained from Atlanta at #37 overall, plus FS James Sanders (an Oakland need) and the Pats six round choice for available Raiders SS Michael Huff. Huff has youth, speed and he can cover and tackle. A great tandem with Merriweather et al. for years.

I think CB in late round two #62 (284 pts) overall. I would go Cason who maybe could be still had in the Pats actual second round slot but more likely Iowas’ Charles Godfrey who is big 6’ 1”and sprinters speed and coming up the boards, He could play Safety as well.

The Pats first choice in round three #69 (245 pts) overall they go with Oklahoma LB Curtis Lofton. This kid will be good and he loves to hit. Was an ILB, a little small but big hitter like Al Wilson.

I want to swap the Pats second third round pick #94 (120 pts) overall to the Broncos for their two fourth rounders the #9 (84 pts) and #20 (62 pts) picks of that round.O.K. We are not perfect but Shanny moves into a first day pick.

I am going to swap #9 in round four to Dallas for LB Bobby Carpenter. He is still a reasonable prospect. He lost his staring bid when injured late in the preseason but he is young, good size and fast, and a great ST kid. He can play inside or outside. A good replacement for Izzo and a LB that can actually take some snaps.

At #20 (62 pts ) position in the fourth the Pats swap with the Jacksonville for their two fifth rounders at #25 (30.2 pts) and #26 (29.8 pts) positions.

The first fifth rounder #25 in that round I go with WR/KR Dexter Jackson of from Appalachian St. Has speed, quicks and D. Branch type pass routes. He upgrades our KR status.

The second Jacksonville fifth rounder #26 (29.8 pts) could go to for the Vikings two sixth rounders at position #17 (20.6 pts) and #27 (16.6 pts) in that round.

The Pats fifth at position #31 is going to Carolina because I am making that Seward move at ILB AND Panthers will not match.

The Pats sixth rounder our #31 in that round, remember we gave to Oakland.

In the sixth at position #17 from the Vikings we get OL Jeremy Zuttah from Rutgers. He’s smart and quick and can play all line positions. Even caught some passes there. A speedy OT will help against some of the quicker pass rushers in the NFL.

In the sixth round at the #27 pick we take South Carolina RB Cory Byrd, the best receiver and hands of all the RB class. He is a bigger 6’ 1” 221 lbs. faster (4.41) Kevin Faulk and can run between the tackles a bit as well. He was underused by Spurrier.

Then in the seventh we get a talented blocking tight end in Nevada’s Adam Bishop. He is a film student of the game and cerebral.

At the end of Draft Day the Pats have added:

CB-DeAngelo Hall
CB-Charles Godfrey-R
S- Michael Huff
LB-Keith Brooking
ILB-Adam Seward
ILB-Curtis Lofton-R
OLB-Bobby Carpenter
WR/KR-Dexter Jackson-R
OL-Jeremy Zuttah-R
RB-Cory Byrd-R
TE-Adam Bishop-R


Not including additions SS T. Johnson, CB L. Sanders, CB J. Webster and LB. T.J. Slaughter. We’ve brought in 5 new LBs, 4 new CBs and two safeties. Versatility? Godfrey can play Safety, Huff can play SS and FS, Brooking can play OLB as can Seward and Carpenter can play ILB. Zuttah can play all O-line positions and TE on the goal line.

We give up Kaczur, Gutierrez and Sanders. Good deal all around.

DW Toys

 

[Rob0729]

Need to see the thread on that. I never heard of Hall saying no to the Pats. Unfounded rumor!
DW Toys

No unfounded rumor. I heard him say it on Sirius NFL radio a few weeks back. Others on this board have confirmed the same in other thread.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=78854

I don't have that quote, but I do have another quote in print from him on the subject that is similiar to what he said on Sirius:

Hall said new Falcons GM Tom Dimitroff, who came from New England, has told Hall he wouldn’t be a good match for the Patriots.

Hall said Dimitroff told him, “I wasn’t that kind of fit, one of those New England fit kind of guys. I don’t know if they’ll take me in New England with him saying that.”

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/...tries/2008/02/22/deangelo_hall_a_dolphin.html