Jerry Rice reaps what he sowed

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

And there we have the point I was about to make. IMO, when comparing Moss and Rice, there are 4 things we know, or at least 4 points I feel are facts:

1)Right now Rice is unquestionably, the GOAT WR. until Moss can do this for a couple of years, wwe cannot debate this seriously.

2)Now the reason why point 1 is true isn't because Moss hasn't ben as productive, or hasn't shown us enough to prove GOAT worthiness. I believe Moss has, over his first 10 seasons, already proven that he could be as great as Rice in a given season, minus last year with Oakland. Obviously, 10 seasons does not a career make, which is why my first point still stand. Jerry Rice is biggest asset when we look at his place in history was his insane longevity.

and now 2 points about intangibles that aren't on the stat sheet

3)Moss changed an offense much more than Rice ever did. As Satchboogie mentioned in his post, Moss is arguably the WR who's faced the highest number of double & triple coverage in this league's history. Even Belichick last April used those exact words when describing the Moss acquisition, saying he's the WR who has BY FAR seen the most double and triple teams since he came into the league.

4)Expanding on my 3rd point, Moss not only commanded attention but has an EXTREMELY unique skillset. He is, unquestionably the best deep threat in NFL History, he stretches the field to such an insane degree that for his QBs and fellow WRs he was a godsend. We can compare Rice to Marvin in being a great possession receiver, we can also compare him to TO in being great with catches over the middle and getting extra yardage. There is no one to compare to Randy Moss and what he's given offenses, and still gives offense. He's truly one of a kind. We already know what he did for Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte, and now Brady. But he also gave WRs like Wes Welker a probowl year, he gave Nate Barleson a 1000 Yd season, he gave Chris Carter a couple of probowl seasons when his ability had diminished. Its is not a coincidence the top two offenses were both wth Moss on them.

So I think as others have mentioned, Moss has the intangible edge over Rice because of points 3 & 4. Because of those intangibles, its not a reach to say if he doesnt need to break Rice's career marks but simply approximates them, as well as, obviously, winning a couple of SBs, in order to get serious consideration as the GOAT WR.

Now, so Rice defenders dont get confused, I'll repeat that Rice now is still the GOAT, and its not realistic to say Moss is in that debate, and thats because he doesnt have the years. BUT its also not realistic to say Moss is a longshot away, or not in the same stratosphere, or doenst have a chance of becoming the GOAT WR. Because he can do all those things, and he's probably the only one who can.

This is far and away the best post on the subject. Agree strongly with all points.

Just don't confuse some of us as Rice defenders simply because we understand the difference between current GOAT and potential future GOAT.

I would like nothing better than to see Moss become the GOAT, as a Patriot. He just isn't there yet. He doesn't need to match Rice record for record, he just needs to build his own post season resume and put a couple rings on his finger.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Ehhh.... neither Moss nor Rice is the 'inarguable' GOAT receiver. There are one or two receivers from the earlier days who were a match for either of them. And, no I'm not going to name them just so people can get this thread even further off topic.

Well, Sammy Baugh is my favorite QB besides Brady, so I guess we all have a soft spot for somebody.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Moss has played in 8 playoff games and has averaged better stats in those games than did Rice in his 28 playoff games.

Moss is off to a great start. Hope he finishes his career strong with the Pats and breaks every record there ever was. Hope he builds his post season resume quickly.

He is not, however, the inarguable GOAT, which is my main objection to a certain poster's unqualified comments.

 

[Xzibit23]

Jerry Rice is the GOAT in every possible measureable category except that he has one less TD in a single season than Moss. Moss has no post season stats to look at and no rings on his finger. That is some of the data people look at when they start lining up GOAT candidates. People look for an overall resume of stats, playoff wins, rings on the finger, ect. Then they take into consideration all the intangibles such as talent and clutch ability. I watched Moss play in the post season, and he was a complete non-factor. He took plays off or lost his focus because when his number was called he dropped easy catches that could have changed the outcome of the game. Hardly a 'clutch' intangible performance.

.

Whaat?? I'm a diehard Vikings fan and I have no idea where you got that info. I watched Moss tear up the Saints in the playoffs, I watched him get almost 200 Yds against the Rams and almost bring us back from 25+ down, i saw him burn the Cowboys for 130 and 2 TDs. The funny thing is people always talk about the moon game, a game in which the Vikings won at Lambeau in the playoffs mainly because Moss caught 2 HUGE Tds with over 100 Yds with a partially torn hamstring and on a gimpy leg. Does that sound like someone who didnt give everything and didnt focus?? Sad thing is no one ever talks about that when mentioning that game, its always the moon.

Bottomline is Moss is and was a great postseason performer, as Viking fans we always considered him at his best when the lights werre the brightest..Monday night football and the postseason. I'm surprised there are actually people out there who think Moss has to prove himself on the big stage. Has he had a couple of duds in the postseason?? Sure..but thats reality when your team becomes one dimensional and entire defenses focus on taking you out.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Whaat?? I'm a diehard Vikings fan and I have no idea where you got that info. I watched Moss tear up the Saints in the playoffs, I watched him get almost 200 Yds against the Rams and almost bring us back from 25+ down, i saw him burn the Cowboys for 130 and 2 TDs. The funny thing is people always talk about the moon game, a game in which the Vikings won at Lambeau in the playoffs mainly because Moss caught 2 HUGE Tds with over 100 Yds with a partially torn hamstring and on a gimpy leg. Does that sound like someone who didnt give everything and didnt focus?? Sad thing is no one ever talks about that when mentioning that game, its always the moon.

Bottomline is Moss is and was a great postseason performer, as Viking fans we always considered him at his best when the lights werre the brightest..Monday night football and the postseason. I'm surprised there are actually people out there who think Moss has to prove himself on the big stage. Has he had a couple of duds in the postseason?? Sure..but thats reality when your team becomes one dimensional and entire defenses focus on taking you out.

Actually, I had the Giants game in mind. That was their best team and best chance to go to the Superbowl. That team had a great running game with Smith. I don't remember them being one dimensional. I do remember Moss pouting and being a non-factor.

I did watch those other games as well, but I was fairly skeptical about the team, especially Culpepper, at that point. I didn't really expect them to win any of those games, even with Moss.

Moss is a great player any way you slice it, and I hope he breaks all of Rice's records but his playoff resume is still short compared to Rice, as is his regular season resume. There really is no way around that issue when you talk about undisputed GOAT.

 

[NEPatriot]

Jerry Rice is an old btch who moans when somebody broke his record.

btw, what does Rice expect Moss to say after breaking his record.? You are the best.???

Come on/

 

[DaedalusX]

This is far and away the best post on the subject. Agree strongly with all points.

Just don't confuse some of us as Rice defenders simply because we understand the difference between current GOAT and potential future GOAT.

I would like nothing better than to see Moss become the GOAT, as a Patriot. He just isn't there yet. He doesn't need to match Rice record for record, he just needs to build his own post season resume and put a couple rings on his finger.

You've completely moved the goal posts here. If you agree with every point Xzibit23 made, then you agree with this statement he made:

BUT its also not realistic to say Moss is a longshot away, or not in the same stratosphere, or doenst have a chance of becoming the GOAT WR. Because he can do all those things, and he's probably the only one who can.

which directly contradicts these statements you made:

Moss is the most talented WR of all time, and he will likely not touch Rice's records. Rice's records don't end with regular season games. He is off the charts in the playoffs.

Rice's numbers are off the chart. Staggering. Moss will never catch him.

And you haven't responded to people calling you out with hard numbers showing that Rice and Moss have been roughly comparable in output thus far.