Welcome to PatsFans.com

Moss' legacy when compared to Jerry Rice

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Xzibit23, Nov 14, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We all know Rice has always been he unquestioned GOAT WR, the debate has always beenno about #2. It wasn't just because of his career numbers, Rice was also considered the GOAT because in any given season, he was the best WR we saw. That got me thinking about Randy Moss, and how he will be remembered if he stays in NE for the next 4-5 years, is healthy and wins, lets say, 2 SBs. I personally dont see him passing Rice's all time numbers, its not impossible, but its close. Rice has those numbers because he played healthy from ages 35-40, and played at a good rate, thats basically unheard as a WR.

    I think when Moss' playing days are over, presuming he stays in NE...he has the potential to at least fuel a worthy debate on whether Rice is the GOAT WR. Its possible that Moss' would've had more GREAT seasons than Rice, considering he already has 2 17 TD seasons, and several other great ones in MN. It can be argued, that Moss at peak value is/was better than Rice...it can be argued. So I feel he could be remembered as the first guy you could say "At their best, I would take him over Rice for this season." Up until now, for one season or over a career, Rice's status as the GOAT has been unquestioned and so obvious that asking it would not even generate a serious response.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2007
  2. Nordy

    Nordy Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't really care about compiled numbers. All I know is I would take Moss in his prime over any other WR in NFL history. Moss was one of my favorite players long before he became a Patriot. Defenses tremble because of Randy Moss.
  3. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +9 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Doesn't matter to me. I would pay more money to see Randy Moss than any other receiver in NFL history. The guys is a highlight reel and may be super human.
  4. pwes

    pwes Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,431
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #87 Jersey
    If the senario you present is the case Randy will be remembered as one of the greatest. Possible #1 or #2. But Oakland will kill him forever. People won't forget it. And these people who hold it against him will always have him at #2 or lower even if he did pass Jerry in stats.
  5. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,241
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Jerry Rice had the beneft of playing with the greatest NFL quarterback of all time, whereas Moss is stuck with Tom Brady. :rolleyes:
  6. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12,304
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +23 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Yeah that is really KILLING his stats this year! :p
  7. Tip_Drill_81

    Tip_Drill_81 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I hope Moss does stay at least 4 years, and remains healthy.
    If he can do that, then there may be a debate at the end of his career.

    Rice is definitely the greatest WR ever. IMO, there's nothing Moss can do for the rest of career to change that, (outside of 5 consecutive 20+ TD seasons). Rice is also the most complete WR ever. He could do about everything great. I can't think about any weakness.

    With that said, I am a Moss fan, and would pay more money to watch Moss than Rice, simply b/c he's more of a "freak."

    In any given situation:
    90% of the time, i'll take Rice.
    10% i'll take Moss. This is because when Moss has a chip on his shoulder, no one's better.
  8. MichaelL

    MichaelL Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Well Jerry Rice is great because at the time, he was considered very large for a receiver and athletic enough to jump over cornerbacks and make the play. So Rice is great at two things, route running and athleticism. Combining those two attributes with a long and productive career is why he is both considered the greatest and has stats that are out of reach for most.

    Today, we have Marvin Harrison and Randy Moss. At the end of his career Harrison will have surpassed Cris Carter and should be #2 in everything. Moss has a good chance at the end of his career to surpass Harrison in receiving TDs.

    I think Harrison is possibly a better route runner than Rice. Moss is certainly more athletic and a better deep threat than Rice. So we have two guys that are in their specialty better than Jerry Rice but Rice was the complete package with the long career.

    That all being said, I think Moss is the most dangerous and game-changing receiver ever to play in the NFL. I don't know that even in his prime that Rice would cause a defense to devote 3 guys to cover him. Moss improves an entire offense by letting them play 10 on 9 or 10 on 8. So I would take Moss on my team as well, but I don't think Rice can be unseated.

    And then old-timers will always bring up Don Hutson who had modern receiver stats in an era where they didn't throw the ball downfield and who had records that stood for 40 years. Some would say that Hutson is even better than Rice, but it's hard to say since Hutson played in the 30's.
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Anyone who was fortunate enough to see Raymond Berry play know he was one hell of a WR as well
  10. letekro

    letekro Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,153
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    For most of Moss's career, he was kind of a one trick pony. That one trick was devastating, but Rice also was tremendous in the air and on deep balls. But how many 5-yard slants did Rice take to the house? It seemed like every week. Short routes, medium routes, deep routes, over the middle, on the sidelines, Rice was unstoppable. Couple that with his quiet demeanor and legendary work ethic, and I think he is a worthy GOAT. Does Moss have more talent - probably, but I still think he's the second best receiver I've ever seen.
  11. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,601
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You can't compare Moss to Rice. I know you prefaced it by saying let's see what happens if he stays in NE for a few more years. But, still. Not even close. Moss pissed away more season than Rice pissed away games. Total professional vs immature modern athlete. He're a comparision in another sport.
    That would be like saying Kobe is better than MJ. MJ did it his whole career. Well, at least until he came out of retirement to join washington. Kobe was his equal physically. But, nowhere near the drive/maturity of MJ. My .02
  12. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I was a big fan of Art Monk and Steve Largent as well. Not saying they belong in the discussion of GOAT, but those two definitely earned my respect.
  13. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You can compare a guy like Marvin Harrison to Jerry Rice. You can't compare anybody to Randy Moss, he is a unique talent like we've never seen before.
  14. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    [​IMG]
  15. ColtinIraq

    ColtinIraq Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Ever hear of Bob Hayes? The zone defense was created because of him. I don't think Moss changed anything about the game.
  16. Nordy

    Nordy Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:



    If you put Moss into Bob Hayes' era it would be an absolute massacre. They would think Moss was super human. There's not much left to be invented. Well unless you count regularly triple teaming a WR an invention.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2007
  17. MichaelL

    MichaelL Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Walked off the field with 2 seconds left? This year Vince Young the freakin' QUARTERBACK walked off the field with 1 minute left. The media was looking for something that year, I can tell you that 2 weeks before that incident, the camera caught Moss walking into the locker room with a minute and half left in the game slowly with a grimace on his face. Immediately the mediots start speculating on what Moss' facial expression meant. After the game, Coach Tice tells the press that Moss had hurt his hamstring and was sent to the locker room to get treatment.

    As for quitting on the Raiders, Moss got over 1000 yards in an injury filled season. The 2nd season, who actually played on that team? Jerry Porter? Did Jerry Porter quit? Did Aaron Brooks quit on that team? How about Warren Sapp, how was his year? Did Art Shell quit on the Raiders? Why does Moss have to take the blame for a crappy team with a crappy coach?
  18. D-cleater

    D-cleater Rookie

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    wow -only two people to reply to this nonsense actually get it.

    Moss is an incredible athletic talent. nothing more. He has no heart and never has. Why do you think the Pats got him for a 4th rd pick? Is there *any* other team in the league where he would be a success after his two years in Oakland? Seriously.

    Rice was the consummate professional, the epitomy of class ( Seattle notwithstanding) , and without doubt the best reciever of all time - FOR HIS WORK ETHIC ALONE. Moss doesn't make the top five.
  19. SteelerSteve

    SteelerSteve Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Jerry Rice is out of Moss' league, Moss is great at the jump ball and he can shred any db that I can think of and can regularly beat double coverage, having said that, look at jerry rice. He kept himself in perfect physical condition, he had awesome hands and could make spectacular one handed catches, but one of the reasons that he was so great was that he could alos get alot after the catch. I havent seen a reciever that stacks up to Rice, Harrison is a similar type of player, but imo he doesn't compare either.
  20. MichaelL

    MichaelL Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    How do you know Randy Moss has no heart? Do you know the man? And who off the current Raiders team can *ANYONE* imagine being a success somewhere else? Some teams like the Patriots, elevate the play of everyone on the team. Other teams drag all their players down. Look at this year's Bengals or the Chargers. Potential Hall of Fame guys on those teams...and look at their performance...do they have no heart either?
  21. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I find it so funny when people on a goddamm message board make comments about Randy Moss; is work ethic, about him being a punk. You have NO IDEA who Randy Moss is, all you do is drink the anti-moss koolaid and regurtitate that bs on message boards. I'm a Vikings fan and I followed Moss in Minnesota as much as one can follo0w a player from afar. I know how 90% of what was said about him was sensationalized media BS, things like mooning, walking off with TWO SECONDS... so please just stop acting you like you know Moss, This thread isnt about who you lke better, its about the bottom line production of Moss vs. Rice on the field. If you want to discredit Moss n that regards, fine, just make it something concrete and not something stupid like "Rice never took plays off". If you reference that quote, all it tells me is that you're clueless about where, when, and why Moss said that, and all you know is the "experts" on ESPN have said it was very bad...so it must be true.

    Also, regarding the last several posts taking shots at Moss, I really, really, really hope those were all trolls. If any of those posts were from a Pats fan, its just pathetic and sad after what Moss had done this year. Lemme guess, its all Brady??
  22. SteelerSteve

    SteelerSteve Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Well said, I agree that you cant necessarily judge players work ethic but, I dont think Moss is the overall great that Jerry was.
  23. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Pissed away more seasons?? ncluding this year, Moss has been in the NFL for 10 years. 8 of those 10 years have seen him surpass 1000 yards by a wide margin. Of the 2 seasons where he didnt hit 1000 yards, one of them(2004) was because he essentially missed FIVE games. Even though the oficial stats showed he missed 3 games, the 2 games prior he suited up and played 1 and 2 snaps respectively before the Vikings medical staff determined he couldnt go because he could further injure his partially torn hamstring. So that leaves exactly 1 season, last year, that he supposedly "pissed away", and he was on a team that had a pathetic Oline, a pathetic QB, and pathetic coaching.

    Also, regarding you calling Moss the prototypical immature athlete, I have to ask are you really a Pats fan?? For you to be calling Moss an immature punk after what he's done this year for the Pats is a joke. He's produced on a historical level as a WR, he's the main reason why the Pats offense is historically great, and he's done all this while completely shunning all the accolades and staying out of the limelight or media, something an immature athlete would obvioulsy never do. Furthermore, the few times he's talked to the media he's deflected ALL the credit for NE's offense performance and his own individual success. Instad he's called Brady the best QB in the NFL, fhe's called Belichick the best coach in NFL history, and he's talked abot "humble pie" amd how the Pats haven't accomplished anything because there's only one goal. So how a true Pats could take those shots at Moss is beyond me, seriously, especially when Belichick and Brady have re[peatedly said he's not the person you read about in the papers, he's hard working, he's mature, he's intelligent, and he's selfless. .
  24. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    Imo he will never be remembered for being the best All-Time WR but I really think he will be remembered as the most exciting player of all time....Now if he played in a Pats uniform his whole career then I think that would be another story.
  25. nokturnal

    nokturnal Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    which ones?
  26. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    God some of you guys are just stupid. Opinions on Moss's Character has NOTHING to do with how good of a WR he is. The only thing that should be in this conversation are stats and athletic performance/preperation. In that respect, Moss has been just as good as Rice. Moss is probably the more talented one, he is one of the most athletic talents I have ever seen. From what I seen, Moss has an incredible work ethic.

    Please don't be stupid and bring his character into discussion. You don't know who he actual is and it is completely irrelevent.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  27. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,060
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Jerry Rice looks like that guy from conan o'brien, peiar, I think? ya know the one that sits in the recliner of rage and rants about stupid things.
  28. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Not sure that these two players are directly comparable for a number of reasons.

    Rice is every clearly among the all time greats. He performed at a higher level over a longer period of time than anyone. His advantage is that he played most of his career with QBs named Montana and Young. He was a precise route runner and an outstanding YAC receiver who was an integral part of an offense that dominated over a long period of time.

    Moss has not enjoyed such good fortune with respect to QBs. During his rookie year, he was on the receiving end of Randall Cunningham's career season; the Vikings went 15-1 scoring 556 points, an NFL record that the Patriots hope to challlenge this season. After that, QBs with whom Moss has worked include Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Todd Bouman, Spergeon Wynn, Gus Frerrote, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks and Marques Tuiasosopo. No HOFers here.

    Moss has rare skills - perhaps the best ever hands, feet and body control. No one has ever tracked the ball as well as Randy Moss. These skills allow him to be "open" even when double or triple covered. Can we say the same about any other receiver in the league today?

    His legacy is yet unwritten and much will depend on the next 3-4 years. He has the opportunity to play on the 2 highest scoring offenses of all time - is that a coincidence?

    It is interesting to wonder how Moss might have fared in the 49ers system which was so successful for so long. Perhaps in that environment, some of the maturity issues we have seen earlier in his career may never have surfaced. Even though the 30-year old Randy Moss may have lost a step, we are now witnessing what this amazingly skilled player is capable of with a great QB, a great scheme and a positive, structured environment.
  29. Fanfrom1960

    Fanfrom1960 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,179
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Jerry Rice was legendary for his work ethic, but he was no walk in the park when it came to being a great clubhouse guy or anything like that. I followed the 49ers during all of their great years, and Rice, believe it or not, did a lot of whining about getting the ball enough and getting the attention that Joe or Steve got. It was so bad during and after the 1988 season that I believe they purposely went to him almost exclusively in the super bowl (for which he won MVP), but the 49ers barely eked it out in the last 3 minutes with the length of field drive and TD pass to John Taylor. Stories about his whining were all over the San Jose Mercury News and the SF Chronicle (pre Internet days). The message was that he was jealous of Joe Montana, if you can believe that.

    Rice was my least favorite player on all those teams that had Montana, Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Fred Dean, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Russ Francis, Brent Jones, et al because, yeah, I'll say it, he was pretty selfish. All time great, no question, but a whiner and a self server. You could say that this is a common trait of a lot of wide receivers, I guess.

    The reason I bring up all of this is because Moss is well known in his past for taking plays off, mooning goalposts to freak out Joe Buck, whatever, and everybody brings up Rice as the anti-Moss or something. Rice had his own faults, not the least of which was lack of any modicum of modesty.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  30. Spirit of '76

    Spirit of '76 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Unfortunately, somehow time diminishes the 'greatness' of sports athletes. We hardly remember, Jim Thorpe, the greatest athlete of all time. Jim Brown's accomplishments have been greatly diminished and now we are doing the same to Jerry Rice.
    I was fortunate enough to see him play his entire career. There is NO equal.
    Someone tried to diminish his greatness by pointing out that he played with Montana. I defy anyone to find me a great WR that didn't have a good QB. It goes hand in hand.

    Randy needs 11,200 more yds to catch Rice. Moss is only at 11, 624 now!
    Moss needs 817 receptions to catch Rice. Moss only has 732 receptions now!
    Moss needs 84 more TDs to catch Rice.

    Rice was a BEAST. He ran perfect routes, had great speed, had soft hands and had hand/eye coordination 2nd to none. It wasn't just longevity that helped him. He could have retired several years earlier and still been the GOAT.


    Hey, I'm enjoying Randy's year in NE. And I'm hoping it's for several more years.
    But in no way, can I compare him or any other WR in the NFL to the GOAT, Jerry Rice.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page