How Good Does Mac Have To Be To Get His Option Picked Up?

[crawhammer]

crawgoogeegaagaa and his "lists"....idiot must be a janitor somewhere

Not a janitor but what's your problem with making an honest living? Please tell us about your lofty perch in life. Picking on people with disabilities first and now janitors. You're a real well-rounded gent.

 

[crawhammer]

Lists are for small minds... you love lists.

Lame. Do better.

Rank the top 20 players... based on what... Crawdaddy's opinion?

Based on your opinion. Your criteria. It's your list. And spare me the bs about lists being worthless. How do you think NFL teams prepare for the draft (beyond scouting)? They create lists of the top players at all positions which can be compiled into a master list taking into account need, etc. How do you think voters select All Pros, MVPs, and HOFers? They rank and list (eligible) players in order. The top vote getters get in. This stuff isn't random. Names aren't being picked out of a hat.

You think QB's are all that matters, it's a child-like interpretation of football. I can't rationally discuss football with you because you don't have a rational bone in your body... you believe in superheroes.

I believe in having the capacity to put things in an order based on data or facts, or given criteria, or mere opinion. It's not child-like either. Children don't have the necessary perspective or frame of reference. It's why the voting age is 18.

 

[Wozzy]

We are discussing Brees because you brought him into the conversation. I never argued he wasn’t clutch enough. I said how a qb plays when the game is on the line means more than his cumulative stats.

Dude you are arguing against yourself.

Third most "clutch" in NFL history if game winning drives counts for anything... but I know it's a stat and they're irrelevant.

 

[Wozzy]

You can’t be missing the fact that when someone says QBs are most important you respond QBS ARENT ALL THAT MATTERS.
Do you agree or disagree that the Qb is the player who has the most impact on winning it losing?

Because you aren't saying "QB's are most important," you're saying a QB should be able to drag the 32nd worst defense kicking and screaming to playoff glory, and that's absurd to the nth degree.

You don't want to talk about Brees (or Deshaun Watson), because when he was at the peak of his powers, his defense was the worst in the NFL and he won 7 games. That's an uncomfortable truth for you, Crawdaddy, All3phases and every other QB fanboy here. You also pretend like Brady having a top defense annually wasn't a massive advantage.

It's fan fiction, hero worship.

Tom Brady was the greatest QB in history, there were none higher, and QB's are the most important position in football... they're also entirely overrated by fans like you.

 

[Ring 6]

Third most "clutch" in NFL history if game winning drives counts for anything... but I know it's a stat and they're irrelevant.

further illustrating why people who rely on cumulative stats get it all wrong.
But wait, you told me wins were a team stat. How is it now a clutch QB stat.

Why would tops accumulated comebacks be how you rank “clutchness” rather than comebacks per year or % of games.
Brees had 53 in 287 games. Derek Carr had 33 in 142 games.
That is almost 20% more per game than Brees. Is Carr the greatest clutch player in the history of the game? Or are you misusing stats?
“Captain Comeback” only had 21 in 131 so I guess he was a choker?

 

[Ring 6]

Because you aren't saying "QB's are most important," you're saying a QB should be able to drag the 32nd worst defense kicking and screaming to playoff glory, and that's absurd to the nth degree.

You don't want to talk about Brees (or Deshaun Watson), because when he was at the peak of his powers, his defense was the worst in the NFL and he won 7 games. That's an uncomfortable truth for you, Crawdaddy, All3phases and every other QB fanboy here. You also pretend like Brady having a top defense annually wasn't a massive advantage.

It's fan fiction, hero worship.

Tom Brady was the greatest QB in history, there were none higher, and QB's are the most important position in football... they're also entirely overrated by fans like you.

No I am saying qb is most important. YOU ARE SAYING I SAID SOMETHING ELSE. You brought up Brees who has nothing to do with the point.

You seem to be the one arguing the greatness of QBs and saying they can be great and lose and that’s not their fault.

None of what you are posting has anything to do with the fact that how a qb plays with the game on the line is more important than his statistics.

If your argument was that Brees did a great job by winning 7 games with a team that should have won 2 then you would be on to something. But that’s not your argument. Your argument is that QBs aren’t accountable to winning.

Back to where it started. I say that Mac Jones future depends on how he plays at the most critical juncture of games and much his team wins, you say it’s what his cumulative stat line looks like and winning doesn’t matter. We couldn’t disagree more.

 

[crawhammer]

Tom Brady was the greatest QB in history, there were none higher, and QB's are the most important position in football... they're also entirely overrated by fans like you.

Perhaps you disagree with the degree of importance but I don't see how you can say we're "entirely overrating" the quarterback. You agree it's the most important position in football and therefore the most difficult to compensate for. An elite quarterback can elevate average receivers but it takes an entire WR corps to elevate an average quarterback.

It's why I argue the current Patriots need a better WR corps, not because I'm trolling PatsFans, but because I consider Mac average at best and he's been given an average supporting cast. Not good enough in my opinion. Not when Allen has Diggs and Davis, and Burrow has Chase and Higgins, etc, or even when a guy like Tua has Hill and Waddle.

Are the Jets WRs better than ours? Garrett Wilson vs JuJu, Allen Lazard vs Parker, Corey Davis vs Bourne, Mecole Hardman vs Thornton... probably not a lot of distance either way between the two groups but I think a motivated Rodgers is getting a lot more done with his WRs.

 

[Joker]

Not a janitor but what's your problem with making an honest living? Please tell us about your lofty perch in life. Picking on people with disabilities first and now janitors. You're a real well-rounded gent.

 

[Tunescribe]

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm trolling PatsFans because I consider Mac average at best and he's been given an average supporting cast. Not good enough in my opinion.

 

[Ivan]

I quoted the applicable passage defining you as a troll. And you respond by trolling. You (1) enjoy causing drama, (2) use certain facts that are cherry picked to get negative reactions, (3) gaslight or play ignorant when called out and (3) manipulate people (or at least try to).

I suggest you recite that last sentence from your post to the nearest mirror.

Every study of trolls concludes that they are mentally ill.

 

[RodThePat]

Because you aren't saying "QB's are most important," you're saying a QB should be able to drag the 32nd worst defense kicking and screaming to playoff glory, and that's absurd to the nth degree.

You don't want to talk about Brees (or Deshaun Watson), because when he was at the peak of his powers, his defense was the worst in the NFL and he won 7 games. That's an uncomfortable truth for you, Crawdaddy, All3phases and every other QB fanboy here. You also pretend like Brady having a top defense annually wasn't a massive advantage.

It's fan fiction, hero worship.

Tom Brady was the greatest QB in history, there were none higher, and QB's are the most important position in football... they're also entirely overrated by fans like you.

Tom Brady dragged the 31st and 30th ranked defenses in the league by DVOA to minutes away from a Super Bowl title in 2011 and 2017.

It's a very simple equation, Wozzy. Offensive EPA/Play has correlated to winning and postseason success more than defensive EPA/Play the last 15 years. Defensive performance is way more high variance year to year than offensive performance, as offensive performance is more reliant on the play of a single player (the Quarterback), and that's more stable year to year than the sum of the quality of play from multiple defensive players. So you have one single position who not only impacts his side of the ball disproportionately in relation to any other, he also impacts the side of the ball whose play, of late, has corresponded more to actual team sucess than the other.

It's not the ONLY thing that matters, but it matters so much more than absolutely everything else, and as of late it MATTERS MORE INDIVIDUALLY THAN THE WHOLE OF DEFENSIVE PERFORMANCE that it is absolutely the most certain indicator of contending for a title. No matter how many Breeses and Marinos you throw at us, those are exceptions and not the rule (not to mention, most of the years those guys didn't win a Super Bowl, another elite QB of their level or beyond ended up hoisting the Lombardi).

The best defense in the league last year was San Francisco's, how did they look after losing their third string QB who was performing well?

 

[Turkamu]

If we're just talking about the fifth year option, i think the question should rather be, how bad does he have to be to have it not picked up. Unless he shows he is completely incapable of being a starter in the NFL, having a young QB under contract for 25-30m is still a good deal. They would still have year 4 to be completely sure if they want to keep him or not and if they don't, then they can still trade him.

If the question is about him getting a second contract/extension, well then i'm with the "4k 30TDs" crowd.

 

[Wozzy]

Tom Brady dragged the 31st and 30th ranked defenses in the league by DVOA to minutes away from a Super Bowl title in 2011 and 2017.

It's a very simple equation, Wozzy. Offensive EPA/Play has correlated to winning and postseason success more than defensive EPA/Play the last 15 years. Defensive performance is way more high variance year to year than offensive performance, as offensive performance is more reliant on the play of a single player (the Quarterback), and that's more stable year to year than the sum of the quality of play from multiple defensive players. So you have one single position who not only impacts his side of the ball disproportionately in relation to any other, he also impacts the side of the ball whose play, of late, has corresponded more to actual team sucess than the other.

It's not the ONLY thing that matters, but it matters so much more than absolutely everything else, and as of late it MATTERS MORE INDIVIDUALLY THAN THE WHOLE OF DEFENSIVE PERFORMANCE that it is absolutely the most certain indicator of contending for a title. No matter how many Breeses and Marinos you throw at us, those are exceptions and not the rule (not to mention, most of the years those guys didn't win a Super Bowl, another elite QB of their level or beyond ended up hoisting the Lombardi).

The best defense in the league last year was San Francisco's, how did they look after losing their third string QB who was performing well?

DVOA is a load of crap... so is offensive EPA... whatever that is.

 

[Kasmir]

Every study of trolls concludes that they are mentally ill.

After your claim I researched it and you appear to be correct. Trolls are sadists realizing their psychopathy online.

In a survey conducted by the group of psychologists, people who partake in so-called trolling online showed signs of sadism, psychopathy, and were Machiavellian in their manipulation of others and their disregard for morality.

Tormenting fans is the particular sadism we see on fan forums like this one.

 

[Ivan]

After your claim I researched it and you appear to be correct. Trolls are sadists realizing their psychopathy online.

Tormenting fans is the particular sadism we see on fan forums like this one.

I think it’s true of every kind of forum, sports, politics, religious etc…. People who are miserable want to try and make others share that misery, and they get off by making people angry or upset.

 

[crawhammer]

After your claim I researched it and you appear to be correct. Trolls are sadists realizing their psychopathy online.

Tormenting fans is the particular sadism we see on fan forums like this one.

Sadism?? Frankly it's bizarre that you think you're witnessing sadism on this forum.

 

[Ring 6]

DVOA is a load of crap... so is offensive EPA... whatever that is.

We’ve now identified this poster for who he is.

“You mentioned something that I don’t know what it is but you generally disagree with me so whatever you mention is a load of crap”

It all makes sense now, and explains why you seem to not comprehend what you read, it’s because you choose not to.

 

[Wozzy]

We’ve now identified this poster for who he is.

“You mentioned something that I don’t know what it is but you generally disagree with me so whatever you mention is a load of crap”

It all makes sense now, and explains why you seem to not comprehend what you read, it’s because you choose not to.

We don’t need advanced “analytics” when points, turnovers and basic stats tell the story.

PFF told us Stephon Gilmore was a bad player when the Patriots signed him as a free agent in 2017… he had a bad player grade. Analytics are crap.

 

[Kasmir]

We don’t need advanced “analytics” when points, turnovers and basic stats tell the story.

PFF told us Stephon Gilmore was a bad player when the Patriots signed him as a free agent in 2017… he had a bad player grade. Analytics are crap.

PFF's grades -- for better or for worse -- are subjective. DVOA -- for better or for worse -- is objective.

Basic stats are historical artifacts. They are familiar but not necessarily better than advanced analytics.