Now who is made of glass? - Health of RBs in 1st round

[RussFrancis]

History says he has better odds of missing 5 out 7 vs. running for 100 yds in 5 of 7. The guys dancing style is pathetic to watch. Bottom line is Lawrence Maroney is soft! Why is everyone in denial on this?

Soft? Are you being serious, man? The guy's an NFL running back. Some are better than others. Taking on 300lb linemen and 240lb linebackers might look an afternoon picnic to you. And some guys are better than others. Maroney gets hit by big men for a living. Its other guys' jobs to take his head off. I can call that alot of things. Crazy. Insane. Even Brave. SOFT definitely isnt going to be one of those things.

 

[spacecrime]

History says he has better odds of missing 5 out 7 vs. running for 100 yds in 5 of 7. The guys dancing style is pathetic to watch. Bottom line is Lawrence Maroney is soft! Why is everyone in denial on this?

We're not in denial about being 9-0, or that Maroney will be on the field next Sunday, or that he will average about 4 ypc.

History says that winning games is better than having a consistent 100 yard rusher. Ask the Dolphins, Jets, Chiefs, Chargers, Seahawks, Saints, etc etc etc, and ask how many teams would trade their consistent 100-yard RBs for three Lombardis.

 

[RussFrancis]

Maroney has not danced at all in the past few games. Why are people still clinging to this? He tip-toed too much last year and started a little slowly this year vw. NY and SD. But since then he has been excellent.

You do realize that NE leads the league in rushing on 1st down, right? Much of that is Maroney. Also, I will admit that Laurence runs upright a little too much (even he admits to this) so he has been working hard on altering that with more body lean. This will diminish some of his natural instincts until the new style itself becomes instinctive.

But the guy is running extremely well of late.

I'll tell you why. We've got a painfully brutal collection of trollish knuckleheads lurking here playing the role of menace on this board with nothing better to do because their own teams suck.

 

[iapatsfan]

Maroney has not danced at all in the past few games. Why are people still clinging to this? He tip-toed too much last year and started a little slowly this year vw. NY and SD. But since then he has been excellent.

You do realize that NE leads the league in rushing on 1st down, right? Much of that is Maroney. Also, I will admit that Laurence runs upright a little too much (even he admits to this) so he has been working hard on altering that with more body lean. This will diminish some of his natural instincts until the new style itself becomes instinctive.

But the guy is running extremely well of late.

You're kidding right? Extremely well? He is paired with one of the best passing attacks in the history of the NFL, and is still performing average. I am not saying the guy is terrible, I'm just saying he is an average running back, and would be below average if safeties weren't playing 20 yds off the ball. My worry isn't this year as much as it is next year when we may not have all the weapons we currently have at WR (Moss and Stallworth). If we have a chance to draft McFadden, that could help compensate for the loss of some of our passing attack.

 

[Oswlek]

The issue is this. Everybody agrees Maroney is not a "move the pile" type runner. Well, if he is not an explosive / slasher type runner and not a "move the pile" runner, what is he? Answer - an average to below average RB.

See my above post, but I have this to add.

One of the primary principles of NE's offense is NO NEGATIVE PLAYS. Unless you didn't pay attention at all last year, Maroney's running ability is clearly dynamic. The problem was that he accepted a few too many negative plays. This year, Maroney has improved in this area tremendously, ranking 3rd in footballoutsiders' success rate..

In general, a play counts as a "hit" if it gains 40% of yards on first down, 60% of yards on second down, and 100% of yards on third down.
If the team is behind by more than a touchdown in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 50%/65%/100%.
If the team is ahead by any amount in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 30%/50%/100%.

It is time for some to actually look into things rather than just use preconceived notions along with the absence of TDs.

 

[Oswlek]

You're kidding right? Extremely well? He is paired with one of the best passing attacks in the history of the NFL, and is still performing average. I am not saying the guy is terrible, I'm just saying he is an average running back, and would be below average if safeties weren't playing 20 yds off the ball. My worry isn't this year as much as it is next year when we may not have all the weapons we currently have at WR (Moss and Stallworth). If we have a chance to draft McFadden, that could help compensate for the loss of some of our passing attack.

How is he performing average? His ypc is excellent. He leads the league in first down ypc. He is third in the league in success rate.

The only thing you have is no long runs and no TDs, niether of which are anywhere near as important that those listed above.

 

[JJDChE]

History says he has better odds of missing 5 out 7 vs. running for 100 yds in 5 of 7.

He's never done either, so I'm not sure what your point is. It doesn't matter anyway. It was a hypothetical. My point is, he's averaging almost 5 yards a carry. If they give him the ball more, it's not all that unlikely that he could put up some good numbers the rest of the season.

Look at Drew Brees, the Chargers were ready to release him outright after three seasons, now he's had three straight pro bowl seasons.

It's too early. Period.

 

[iapatsfan]

Let me ask you guys this. If we do not have the same passing attack next year (which is likely), are you comfortable with Maroney compensating for anything we lose by not having either Moss or Stallworth? This is not "trolling" as you call it. It is questioning whether Maroney is a long term solution at what could become an even more important position next year.

 

[Oswlek]

Let me ask you guys this. If we do not have the same passing attack next year (which is likely), are you comfortable with Maroney compensating for anything we lose by not having either Moss or Stallworth? This is not "trolling" as you call it. It is questioning whether Maroney is a long term solution at what could become an even more important position next year.

Injury wise? I still have some concerns.

Performance wise? Virtually none. The only performance concerns I have are all tied to the injury risks.

Now, turn that around. NE lost their power guy since we all know that Evans is junk in short yardage situations and Eckel likely isn't going to be relied on. I love Faulk, but he is no short yardage guy either. Why haven't the reached out to any power running backs? Doesn't that indicate that they are satisfied with who they have?

 

[iapatsfan]

He's never done either, so I'm not sure what your point is. It doesn't matter anyway. It was a hypothetical. My point is, he's averaging almost 5 yards a carry. If they give him the ball more, it's not all that unlikely that he could put up some good numbers the rest of the season.

Look at Drew Brees, the Chargers were ready to release him outright after three seasons, now he's had three straight pro bowl seasons.

It's too early. Period.

Please quit pointing to YPC as your only basis for an argument. Morris was averaging 4.6 which .6 higher than his career average, faulk is averaging 4.5 which is up from his career average. Every RB on the roster is benefiting from a record breaking passing attack. Once again, what if that passing attack is not there next year? Are you comfortable relying on Maroney to make up for whatever we lose through the air? It is a legit question.

 

[Oswlek]

Please quit pointing to YPC as your only basis for an argument. Morris was averaging 4.6 which .6 higher than his career average, faulk is averaging 4.5 which is up from his career average. Every RB on the roster is benefiting from a record breaking passing attack. Once again, what if that passing attack is not there next year? Are you comfortable relying on Maroney to make up for whatever we lose through the air? It is a legit question.

Maroney's only other season was with no receivers and it was still 4.3. YPC is most certainly a viable evaluating tool.

BTW, what exatly has to happen for this year's team to even resemble last years? You do realize that last year's receivers were possibly the worst since Kraft took over the team. Why can't Maroney's 4.3 ypc be spun in exactly the reverse of your point?

 

[iapatsfan]

Injury wise? I still have some concerns.

Performance wise? Virtually none. The only performance concerns I have are all tied to the injury risks.

Now, turn that around. NE lost their power guy since we all know that Evans is junk in short yardage situations and Eckel likely isn't going to be relied on. I love Faulk, but he is no short yardage guy either. Why haven't the reached out to any power running backs? Doesn't that indicate that they are satisfied with who they have?

Why can't we get a RB that doesn't require a replacement for short yardage? So we have Faulk to catch the ball and we get a replacement for short yardage while Maroney gets whatever is left. I'm sorry, but that is not good value for a franchise RB.

 

[Oswlek]

Why can't we get a RB that doesn't require a replacement for short yardage? So we have Faulk to catch the ball and we get a replacement for short yardage while Maroney gets whatever is left. I'm sorry, but that is not good value for a franchise RB.

How do you know that Maroney isn't working on this very thing?

The only rational thing to say is that Maroney has some things to work on to become a complete back, but his is still quite promising. The "average to below average" talk is pure fallacy.

 

[iapatsfan]

Maroney's only other season was with no receivers and it was still 4.3. YPC is most certainly a viable evaluating tool.

BTW, what exatly has to happen for this year's team to even resemble last years? You do realize that last year's receivers were possibly the worst since Kraft took over the team. Why can't Maroney's 4.3 ypc be spun in exactly the reverse of your point?

Because when you don't get the ball that often, YPC is a useless stat. LT's only at 4.2 YPC. Maybe SD will make a trade. Please don't use useless stats as the basis for your argument.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because when you don't get the ball that often, YPC is a useless stat. LT's only at 4.2 YPC. Maybe SD will make a trade. Please don't use useless stats as the basis for your argument.

LT has been a very mediocre back, at best, this season. Are you seriously trying to claim that not to be true?

 

[iapatsfan]

LT hasn't been as good a running back this year as Maroney has. He's been a very mediocre back, at best. Are you seriously trying to claim that not to be true?

Can someone stop this guy before he really humiliates himself?

 

[Deus Irae]

Can someone stop this guy before he really humiliates himself?

1.) I took the Maroney part out because I knew you'd type something stupid. Sadly, I was too late, and you did.

2.) Get back to us after you go back and watch film of LDT this season.

 

[Oswlek]

Because when you don't get the ball that often, YPC is a useless stat. LT's only at 4.2 YPC. Maybe SD will make a trade. Please don't use useless stats as the basis for your argument.

Not at all. Again, you are misunderstanding statistics. It is only useless if there is something that indicates future carries wouldn't yield similar results. Considering that Maroney's longest carry is only 19 yards, the only safe conclusion is that he will continue to put up similar numbers.

Sample size issues only exist if there is either

a) some skewed results that drag the average in one direction or another

or

b) no prior sample to derive any data from

A) does not exist and Maroney has last year where he ran for nearly as many ypc with virtually no passing offense to lean on.

 

[iapatsfan]

1.) I took the Maroney part out because I knew you'd type something stupid. Sadly, I was too late, and you did.

2.) Get back to us after you go back and watch film of LDT this season.

Get back to me when Maroney can carry LT's jock.

 

[iapatsfan]

Not at all. Again, you are misunderstanding statistics. It is only useless if there is something that indicates future carries wouldn't yield similar results. Considering that Maroney's longest carry is only 19 yards, the only safe conclusion is that he will continue to put up similar numbers.

Sample size issues only exist if there is either

a) some skewed results that drag the average in one direction or another

or

b) no prior sample to derive any data from

A) does not exist and Maroney has last year where he ran for nearly as many ypc with virtually no passing offense to lean on.

That is not a safe conclusion whatsoever. Take a look at last year's YPC numbers for Maroney. They went down all year long. His playoff numbers were terrible. If you would have taken his 1st 9 game numbers last year and tried to extrapolate them through the full season, you would have missed terribly. He struggled the more he got the ball.