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How long can the Patriots offense be 1 dimensional once it gets cold and snowy?


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It seems that many of you agree with the media. Why bother to play the games? Just give us the rings!

IMHO, we DO have a potential issue with regard to our running game. We have Maroney and Morris injured. Why do we believe that all our running backs will be at 100% in December? It seems most unlikely.

Some here seem fine with Evans and Eckel as our runners, with Faulk. I don't know where you get your koolaid. Evans and Eckel should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Smith. He was a fine, dependable RUNNING BACK. Eckel is a wannabe who MAY good enough by December to replace Evans if he is injured. Evans is not a very good runner at all. This is NOT a knock on Evans. I wouldn't want Vrabel running the ball either.

We are NOT a one-dimensional team. That is NOT the issue. The issue is whether this team is well-equipped to grind in out in the snow. It is simply non-responsive to say that Brady will do it all. I have every confidence in our passing game. It would be good to count on our running game in the snow.

Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I think HFA advantage means little against the colts. The Brady Bunch is MADE for dome play. It took the whole defense to have the flu for Brady to lose even ONE game in a dome. Brady has won all the rest with weak receivers. To think that Brady would prefer to play in the snow with this group is just plain silly. IMHO, we match up much better against the colts playing in Indy than in Foxboro.

mg, this is becoming a habit with you. You seem to be arguing something that NO ONE is positing. I mean, you also veer off with insanity like "IMHO, we match up much better against the colts playing in Indy than in Foxboro" - [gratuitous insults deleted] I mean, just TRULY ludicrous. Say it ain't so. Take it back.
 
As good as the passing game has been I still think a good running game will be needed to carry us to the SB. So far our running game has not been what it could/can be.

There are no words to express my dismay that ANY Patriots fan even HALF paying attention could type such baseless, silly nonsense.
 
We need another Dillion at RB that will get those 2/3 yrds up the middle like he did. Thats my kind of runner.

Sammy Morris and Laurence Maroney BOTH say hi. If you're going to counter with the ridiculously overblown "he dances behind the line!" argument, I throw up my hands. I just...please, for the love of God, WATCH THE GAMES.
 
Neither of these runners are like Dillion. You knew Dillion was coming right at you and he still got the tough yds for us everytime.
 
Neither of these runners are like Dillion. You knew Dillion was coming right at you and he still got the tough yds for us everytime.

That isn't a necessity to have a great running game. Complete fallacy.

And, isn't that really what Eckel did against the Cowboys on the final drive?
 
I like Morris a lot as a horse in cold weather, so with Morris healthy, I am fine with our chances in cold weather. However, as I have said many times, I would prefer a much better 5th running back on the team than Eckel. I would have drafted a running back or picked up a short yardage running back in free agency. But no matter, Morris is much better than expected, and we will be fine.

It is the wind, the cold and the mud that favors a running team. I agree that in rainy conditions, the passing game has a decided advantage.

My argument regarding the dome is simple. I think that our offense would be about even in the dome. I believe that the patriots defense would have a decided advantage over Indy. In poor conditions, anything can happen. If I had my choice, I would like to have a stronger running game playing in the snow and wind.

Are we really arguing about the 5th RB? Does any other team even HAVE a 5th RB.
I think Eckel may be the best 5th RB in the league. Kind of like "player to be named later" is the best 4th QB in the league.

I think our running game is fine.

I guess we will agree to disagree, because I think in Gillette, in January, our offense is better than theirs (and by quite a bit) and our defense is better than theirs (further better than in a dome).
On top of this, lets say it becomes a running game due to weather. Who are you betting on? The Colts running against our D or us running against the Colts D?
We have a tremendous advantage in a game against the Colts where there are no passes.
Of course, all other things equal, there is still the factor of being at home. Plus the factor of us being more prepared and used to the conditions as well.

I think you will have a very hard time getting anyone to agree that our chances of beating Indy are better in Indy than in Foxboro.
 
Neither of these runners are like Dillion. You knew Dillion was coming right at you and he still got the tough yds for us everytime.


First of all, it's Dillon. Secondly, Dillon was a GHOST the last couple years. If you actually think Maroney couldn't have gotten all those TDs when you're handed the ball at the goal line every time, I think you're fooling yourself. I liked Dillon, too, and I know what you mean about his running...attitude or whatever, but I think you're REALLY overthinking this.
 
That isn't a necessity to have a great running game. Complete fallacy.

And, isn't that really what Eckel did against the Cowboys on the final drive?

The offensive line gets those yards. How many times did Dillon gain those 'tough yards' without blocking.
Truth be told QUICKNESS TO THE HOLE is the most important factor in short yardage, not bulk and strength.
The guy who gets to and through the hole quickly isn't touched by the guy who's tackle the slower, stronger back is breaking.

Thats the old Antowain Smith argument. Sure he broke some tackles, but the guy who he was breaking the tackle of wouldn't have been there if smith wasn't so slow getting to the hole.

Maroney will be an excellent back in those situations.
 
I just read the Herald and it seems Karen Guregian
Thursday, October 18, 2007 agrees with me.


How much of a factor will the loss of Morris and continued uncertainty of Maroney be going forward?
Maybe this isn’t such a huge deal against the 0-6 Dolphins, but in the big picture, not having a dependable running game, having a one-dimensional offense, could be a concern, particularly down the road against the Colts in Indianapolis. That’s when not having balance might hurt the Pats, even with all their firepower.
 
I'll take the Patriots #7 ranked rush offense and let the cards fall. Sammy will return as will Maroney. Most importantly, the line continues to blow defensive linemen off the field like so many plump balloons.


I just read the Herald and it seems Karen Guregian
Thursday, October 18, 2007 agrees with me.


How much of a factor will the loss of Morris and continued uncertainty of Maroney be going forward?
Maybe this isn’t such a huge deal against the 0-6 Dolphins, but in the big picture, not having a dependable running game, having a one-dimensional offense, could be a concern, particularly down the road against the Colts in Indianapolis. That’s when not having balance might hurt the Pats, even with all their firepower.
 
The Patriots have 850 rushing yards this season. Do you know where that ranks among NFL teams? 1st out of 32 teams.

Actually, 2nd behind the Vikings. But anyway...


The Patriots have called I believe 204 passing plays and 202 rushing plays. If that isn't balance I don't know what is.

The running game of the New England Patriots is currently 7th in the league in yards per game and 14th in yards per attempt


Both of these stats are naturally skewed a bit by the series of blowouts. Over the course of a season pass attempts usually get pumped up by 4th-quarter comeback attempts, running attempts by run-down-clock blowouts. The Patriots have only had the latter: in the 4th quarter rushes have outnumbered passes by a 3-to-2 ratio. (69 to 46, not counting kneeldowns.) So the "real" offense does lean more toward the pass.

At the same time, eliminating garbage time shows that the running game has been extremely productive. For instance, mop-up men Evans & Eckels have combined for 23 carries and 56 yards for an average of just 2.4 yds/att, all (I believe) in the 4th quarter. Other runners have combined for a very healthy 4.75 yds/carry.
 
I just read the Herald and it seems Karen Guregian
Thursday, October 18, 2007 agrees with me.


How much of a factor will the loss of Morris and continued uncertainty of Maroney be going forward?
Maybe this isn’t such a huge deal against the 0-6 Dolphins, but in the big picture, not having a dependable running game, having a one-dimensional offense, could be a concern, particularly down the road against the Colts in Indianapolis. That’s when not having balance might hurt the Pats, even with all their firepower.

Ummm, I don't think I would call Karen freakin Guregian a football expert.
Not to mention that she is SPECULATING that IF the Pats BECAME one-dimensional it MIGHT hurt them.

There are many leaps of conjecture here:
1) IF Maroney and Morris are BOTH still out in 3 more weeks
2) IF the Patriots BECOME one-dimensional because of it. I will point out that the Patriots did NOT become one-dimensional last week when Morris went out, as Kevin Faulk ran for 47 yards, all in the second half. Also we ran the ball 29 times vs Dallas which would rank 10th most in the NFL in rushes per game. In the second half we ran 18 times and threw 19. For the year we have run 33.7 times a game, 4th most in the NFL, and thrown 34 times, 12th most in the NFL. There is a ton of evidence that we may have the MOST balanced offense in the NFL and have not been one-dimensional by any stretch, including when both Maroney and Morris were on the sidelines.
3) IT MIGHT hurt us.
All of this to jump to conclusions leading up to the common perception that one-dimensional teams might struggle.

How different would this be than saying:

How will contending with the Patriot offense affect the Colts?
Well, if they are so consumed with keeping the Patriot offense off the field, they may run the ball all day, and not want to risk throwing it. History has shown that points are made in the passing game, so the Colts could be in trouble if they become one-dimensional and only run the ball.
 
Actually, 2nd behind the Vikings. But anyway...







Both of these stats are naturally skewed a bit by the series of blowouts. Over the course of a season pass attempts usually get pumped up by 4th-quarter comeback attempts, running attempts by run-down-clock blowouts. The Patriots have only had the latter: in the 4th quarter rushes have outnumbered passes by a 3-to-2 ratio. (69 to 46, not counting kneeldowns.) So the "real" offense does lean more toward the pass.

At the same time, eliminating garbage time shows that the running game has been extremely productive. For instance, mop-up men Evans & Eckels have combined for 23 carries and 56 yards for an average of just 2.4 yds/att, all (I believe) in the 4th quarter. Other runners have combined for a very healthy 4.75 yds/carry.

Even eliminating the 4th quarter numbers, you are left with about 130 and 160 rush and pass. That is VERY, VERY balanced in the NFL.
To illustrate, we need to discount 6 quarters so, we have 18 left, the equivalent of 4 1/2 games. 130 rushes and 160 passes over 4 1/2 games would equal 462 rushes and 569 passes over the course of a season. That is very far from a pass-happy offense. Pass-happy offenses will throw 650+ times in a season.Running 45% of the time (what we do in quarters 1-3) is a run orinented offense compared to the league norm. 50/50, including the 4th quarter is a run-heavy offense by todays NFLs standards.
 
We saw that after his injury last year Maroney really struggled to dust off the rust from not playing and it was in the hands of Corey to do the ground work and keep the team winning and away from being too 1 dimentional.

While this offense is awesome right now in the mild weather and looking air coryell-like, I wonder if Morris is out for a longer period and if Maroney is once again slow to progress after his injury can we continue to be as dominant once the harsh weather starts to arrive?

Remember there will be very few nice and comfortable games all winter as the Pats will stay in the eastern part of the US where it will probably be cold and snowy so I just wonder if this offense remains 1 dimentional will there be trouble down the road where we will HAVE to have those grind em out games to keep the opposing D honest? - The running game really becomes an even more important issue right after Thanksgiving,I hope we have a productive RB situation by then and Morris and Maroney plays as they are expected to do in this offense and that is just to be a threat to the increased blitz schemes team will continue to throw at the Pats.

The running game in the winter months is definately a worry IMO

Besides I don't want to see Brady throwing 40+ passes every game,It puts him in danger every time he steps back especially with Blitzing teams good at it like Pitt,Baltimore and the Giants ect:,I would love the ground game to be a big insurance policy in december and beyond - I hope we have it because I don't think we will be putting up high 30s and lower 40s scores once the weather sours,We will have close games where the running game becomes crucial.

There's a lot of "If" in that post. "if Maroney is slow to progress", and "If Morris is out for an extended period" will the Patriots be able to keep winning with a "one dimensional offense".

OK, now I can see where you're coming from but why exectly would the Patriots offense become a struggling one dinensional unit if Maroney or Morris aren't working out in the backfield?

The Patriots could use Faulk, Evans or Eckel and would likely sign someone else if they started to really struggle in the rushing game. I don't think Faulk or any other RB's would likely be quite as effective as Maroney and Morris but I think they'd still get the job done considering NE's passing attack.

Now, if the Patriots offense were to become one demensional I still believe they could win as Brady is well versed at using short passes in place of a rushing attack. Also, this would have to be a new development only brought on by injury as the Patriots to this point have rushed only two fewer times than they've passed and even after Morris went down in Dallas they're still ranked 7th in rushing.

Another thing to consider is the strength of the Patriots passing attack. Teams are already having to focus on stopping Brady, Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Watson which is going to create space for rushers no matter who's in the backfield. The Colts RB's enjoy a somewhat simular situation by the way.

I'm not sure Maroney will have trouble knocking the rust off once he's back out their, nor do I believe Sammy will be out any longer than 4-6 weeks.

Also, the first part of your arguement is factually incorrect. Maroney had some nice rushes against the Jags & Titans last year in his first two games back from injury.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?statsId=7770&year=2006
 
I'm glad we got Moss and Co this off season. The passing game is sure great!
 
INFO ALERT:


The Patriots have called I believe 204 passing plays and 202 rushing plays. If that isn't balance I don't know what is.


The Patriots are #1 in passing offense and #7 in rushing offense and that's without the teams #1 HB at that.

Somebody didn't take the time to research before they called the Patriots One Dimensional.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...Type=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Find

Yea, I posted that stat in another thread, pretty amazing balance.
 
Please compare Manning's record in domes with Brady's.




mg, this is becoming a habit with you. You seem to be arguing something that NO ONE is positing. I mean, you also veer off with insanity like "IMHO, we match up much better against the colts playing in Indy than in Foxboro" - [gratuitous insults deleted] I mean, just TRULY ludicrous. Say it ain't so. Take it back.
 
INFO ALERT:


The Patriots have called I believe 204 passing plays and 202 rushing plays. If that isn't balance I don't know what is.


The Patriots are #1 in passing offense and #7 in rushing offense and that's without the teams #1 HB at that.

Somebody didn't take the time to research before they called the Patriots One Dimensional.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...Type=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Find

I agree with you - -what's most amazing to me is that the Pats can be a balanced offense (in terms of playcalling which is vital to an overall winning scheme) and STILL see Brady on track to destroy Manning's TD record.

But, just out of deference to the original poster, when one looks at the yardage generated by our passing game compared to our running game, it looks a little less balanced

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/stats?team=nwe

Note that about 2/3rds of our average yardage comes from the passing game - and a high percentage of the points.

Of course, that's a GOOD thing given the huge pass plays that Moss, Stallworth and others have put up - so I don't view that as a problem heaeding into the winter.

Will we put it in the air quite as much in the cold? Maybe not - but teams will still respect the deep passing game and therefore the running game will continue to do enough to win games.
 
eckel will make it happen as long as the oline opens up holes for him to run... just likethe colts with keith ellison their oline make him look goood.... our oline is the key, i hope that zone blocking scheme would create some magic
 
I think that because the pats passing game is working at historical levels rit now, we miss the running game...

in reality we have one of the best running games in the NFL, we just score all our TD's by passing, which is wut i dont like, we need to start getting some runnning TD's
 
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