For the 2016 Pats to be in/win SB 51 the D has to improve ALOT

[Ring 6]

Because I think our offense wont be scoring over 30 in every playoff game. But maybe im wrong. I think better teams will be able to control the clock more. People were complaining about the defense after week 2 and 3 and I thought it was absurd. Ive since changed my mind. We will see how we do against better competition soon enough

The offense doesn't have to score 30 to win when you are allowing 15 per game.
That one first down conversion per game is really a world beater for you huh?

So wait.
We allowed 16 points while using an injured, rookie, 3rd string QB.
We allowed 13 points to Cleveland, while holding their #1 weapon to 12 carries for 22 yards.
We allowed 17 points to the Bengals.

And those are reasons that have changed your mind and made you feel like the defense is bad?
Wow.

 

[Ring 6]

and because defenses and coaching in the playoffs is better. Cant expect to score over 30 in every playoff game

Wait. Am I reading this correctly?
The best 12 teams make the playoffs, and 8 are left after the wc round.
4 are left in the conference championship round.
2 make it to the SB.
These games are harder to win that the typical regular season game.
A) My mind is blown
B) That does nothing to support your argument

 

[fightingirish595]

Wait. Am I reading this correctly?
The best 12 teams make the playoffs, and 8 are left after the wc round.
4 are left in the conference championship round.
2 make it to the SB.
These games are harder to win that the typical regular season game.
A) My mind is blown
B) That does nothing to support your argument

Talking to you is like talking to a wall

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I dont buy any of this "eye test" crap. Its worrying about something that isnt really there and cherry picking something to try to justify the worrying. The team's strategy is their strategy. Can any stat be improved? Sure, but the question is why worry about it and even better what recommendations to you have to fix it?

If we were bottom 5 in points allowed and top 5 in 3rd down conversions would anyone say "its ok we give up a lot of points but we stop other teams from converting 3rd downs?"

Nothing but ****ing whiners on this forum. People are actually whining about Rotherisberger not playing.

Sometimes people just need something to complain about...that's just what fans do. It shows you how much we care about this team, and how passionate we are. Can it be annoying? Certainly. But it just shows you are invested we are.

Keep in mind, some of us who are younger have known nothing but winning when it comes to this franchise. So that can make us a little spoiled as well.

 

[Ring 6]

and because defenses and coaching in the playoffs is better. Cant expect to score over 30 in every playoff game

Can Seattle and Denver expect to score 30 a game? Or is somehow their defense that allows more points than ours going to be better in the playoffs but we will be worse?

 

[Ring 6]

Talking to you is like talking to a wall

Not if you make sense.

 

[VrabelJr]

Woah this thread suuuuuuucks.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

A team should not be expected to meet regular season averages in the post-season.

This is very true. It is extremely hard for offenses to replicate their regular-season point average during the playoffs. That's why defense becomes much more important in the postseason (the same way pitching does for baseball).

That said, if you look back at 2007, the defense did its part in holding the Giants offense to only 17 points, when just a few weeks earlier, it had let up 35 points to the same team.

As bad as Helmet catch was, the defense did its part that day. But the offense came up woefully short, putting up its lowest point total of the whole entire season.

 

[Ring 6]

Interesting Patriot numbers that are pertinent to this discussion.

In the BB/Brady era.

Offense
Reg Season 27.8 ppg
Post Season 26 ppg

Defense
Reg season 18.7 ppg
Post season 20.2 ppg

It doesn't seem like a big difference, at least not as big as made out.

 

[Ring 6]

Not whining, never said we were doomed. We can win the superbowl no doubt. I think myself and others that are concerned and have every right to be. If the eye test tells you we have a great defense you are entitled to that opinion

Are you aware that after Cincinnati went ahead 14-10 with 11:14 left in the 3rd quarter they did not convert a 3rd down the rest of the game?

 

[patman52]

These same guys would look at the jets defense in the first game against the bengals where they got 6 sacks and said what a great defense as they lost the game 23-22.

 

[Ring 6]

These same guys would look at the jets defense in the first game against the bengals where they got 6 sacks and said what a great defense as they lost the game 23-22.

Plus they only converted 3/11 and its better to lose 23-22 allowing 3/11 3rd downs than to win 35-17 and allow 5/12. At least I'm being told it makes you better than the Patriots in the playoffs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Defense is important in the playoffs.

From 2001-2007 the O scored 23, the D allowed 18ppg and went 14-3

From 2009-2015 the O scored 27ppg the D allowed 22ppg and went 8-6

There are some defensive scores and some injuries in there but it's interesting to see the same +/- in scoring differential.

 

[Ring 6]

Defense is important in the playoffs.

From 2001-2007 the O scored 23, the D allowed 18ppg and went 14-3

From 2009-2015 the O scored 27ppg the D allowed 22ppg and went 8-6

There are some defensive scores and some injuries in there but it's interesting to see the same +/- in scoring differential.

Actually I think you have to consider 09-10 the outliers, and it is
01-07 23/18 14-3
09-10 17.5/30.5 0-2
11-15 29.25/21.4 8-4
So, since 2011, we actually have scored almost 30 points a game in the postseason.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Actually I think you have to consider 09-10 the outliers, and it is
01-07 23/18 14-3
09-10 17.5/30.5 0-2
11-15 29.25/21.4 8-4
So, since 2011, we actually have scored almost 30 points a game in the postseason.

I agree. I almost felt guilty adding 09-10 in there to the post Bruschi teams. No Wes in 2009 but the D was still OK and a very flawed defense in 2010 but because of TB12's absurdly efficient season went 14-2.

 

[PScottman]

What are you talking about.

Hyperbole in ("As things are currently going, I think Minnesota is better than us."), hyperbole out.

 

[PScottman]

I'm completely satisfied with the D and encouraged with the O.

Especially in historical context where virtually every playoff game the Patriots play is close because of a conservative defensive style designed specifically to not let games get too out of hand (more than 14 points) and allow for a more aggressive offensive style make up the difference.

 

[PScottman]

Because I think our offense wont be scoring over 30 in every playoff game. But maybe im wrong. I think better teams will be able to control the clock more.

I'll ask again - better teams on defense, offense or special teams?

Is there truly a team out there that matches up on both sides of the ball to prove your point? Your entire argument is based on one aspect of defense (not even the whole) being SO flawed that not only does it crater chances of playoff success, but it likewise elevates those other team's offense and special teams to better than the Patriots too!

In this construct, there is no Patriot offense, no Patriots special teams, and no other aspect of the Patriots' defense that has merit while Seattle, Minnesota and Denver's same units are SO elevated by simply poor 3d down efficiency that they cannot be overcome.

Carolina was one sexy pick last year, and they had a pretty damn good defense - WAY better than the Patriots (supposedly...kinda like Minnesota). They got destroyed in the Super Bowl by a team that was overall better in offense and special teams and probably equal in defense. You continue to want to throw out every other aspect of football to make some kind of point that 3d down efficiency is the Achille's Heel and downfall of all things Patriot.

Incroyable.

 

[Patriots_Master]

I think Patriots defense want win games because they want to see points per game instead of yards allowed per game and I think our defense is elite and capable to make the Superbowl. Remember the Arizona can't score to finish the game. I think our weakness are the secondary to allow yards (logan ryan) and defensive time possession. For example, elite running teams to take away our offense time on the clock to make sure we can't score. I think the Patriots needs to work on time possession wisely on our or tell Tom Brady to use 5-7 min in a single drive to frustrate to other teams. I'm happy my team is 5-1 but it's a long season and I hope there's no injuries. Go Pats!!!!!

 

[fightingirish595]

Are you aware that after Cincinnati went ahead 14-10 with 11:14 left in the 3rd quarter they did not convert a 3rd down the rest of the game?

Gee and they only gave up 3points.

I'll ask again - better teams on defense, offense or special teams?

Is there truly a team out there that matches up on both sides of the ball to prove your point? Your entire argument is based on one aspect of defense (not even the whole) being SO flawed that not only does it crater chances of playoff success, but it likewise elevates those other team's offense and special teams to better than the Patriots too!

In this construct, there is no Patriot offense, no Patriots special teams, and no other aspect of the Patriots' defense that has merit while Seattle, Minnesota and Denver's same units are SO elevated by simply poor 3d down efficiency that they cannot be overcome.

Carolina was one sexy pick last year, and they had a pretty damn good defense - WAY better than the Patriots (supposedly...kinda like Minnesota). They got destroyed in the Super Bowl by a team that was overall better in offense and special teams and probably equal in defense. You continue to want to throw out every other aspect of football to make some kind of point that 3d down efficiency is the Achille's Heel and downfall of all things Patriot.

Incroyable.

Wait you actually think denver was better on offense than Carolina. Im done debating this. Let me just make myself clear, just because I think this defense needs to improve, doesnt mean I think it isnt good.