NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[sb1]

Found Tanguay's article on Google cache:

Tom Brady is going down.


I realize that is the sentiment after today's appeals hearing at the Second District Court of New York. Multiple observations have Brady's team taking a major hit today.


Now, this alone does not mean that the NFL will win its appeal. However, a source with connections to the case told me it does. This three judge panel will decide in favor of the NFL, Berman's ruling will be reversed and Brady's four-game suspension will be upheld.


Brady can appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court but the high court does not have to take the case.


Stay ready Jimmy Garoppolo.

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'll look smart if I'm right. LOL

 

[Gronkowski123]

Judge Berman found for Brady on four counts. The appeals court needs to overturn all four counts for Brady to lose. It is conceivable, that the NFL can win one, two, or three of the counts and are over turned, but Brady ultimately wins because Brady would still not have to serve the suspension.

The strongest point that Brady won was the fundamental fairness. Berman claimed that Goodell violated it because Brady was not given access to Wells' work product or was allowed to interview Pash. For an appeal to be fundamentally fair, Brady would have had to have access to all information available to mount a proper defense which he was not given.[/QUOTE]

brady can't lose then by this reasoning.

the judges didn't seem to care though. similar to how berman basically put article 46 to the side.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

This is how he wrote it

The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless, concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (four-game suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to examine one of the two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General Counsel Jeff Pash and (C) denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes.

If they are unbiased not sure how they overturn all 3.

I do not get it. I am not a lawyer. I kept hearing on this site that the only questions these judges would ask was about the arbitration process only. Because that is what Berman ruled on. That they could not open up any other part of the original case.

Today all the tweets from the judges were only on questions about The Wells report and none about Bermans ruling.

Is this normal or is it possible they want to embarrass both sides to try and keep this nonsense out of their courts in the future. Or possibly trolling each side a bit on discrepancies in their 74 page briefs.

But with no questions about Bermans ruling how is this so bad for the NFLPA

 

[Rob0729]

I certainly hope you are correct, and I'm not saying you're wrong.... BUT how come nobody is saying this...? I find it hard to imagine every single person in the media is wrong about this.

Daniel Wallach talked about it on Felger and Mazz today. And the media talked about it when Berman issued his decision.

 

[Rob0729]

Found Tanguay's article on Google cache:

Tom Brady is going down.


I realize that is the sentiment after today's appeals hearing at the Second District Court of New York. Multiple observations have Brady's team taking a major hit today.


Now, this alone does not mean that the NFL will win its appeal. However, a source with connections to the case told me it does. This three judge panel will decide in favor of the NFL, Berman's ruling will be reversed and Brady's four-game suspension will be upheld.


Brady can appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court but the high court does not have to take the case.


Stay ready Jimmy Garoppolo.

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'll look smart if I'm right. LOL

So in other words, someone close to the case THINKS that the appeals court will reverse Judge Berman's decision.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

Daniel Wallach talked about it on Felger and Mazz today. And the media talked about it when Berman issued his decision.

Pretty sure he was also saying it doesn't look good for Brady... Felger and Mazz were barely able to hold back their happiness because of this

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I'd reserve judgement until the transcript comes out, we just got tweeted sound bites and not many of the replies.
Two lawyers called into Dale and Holley and said they got hammered like today and walked out of the courtroom sure they lost the case only to win.

 

[VectorPrime]

I was listening to Felger and Mazz right at the exact time when the questioning of the NFL stopped and the questioning of Kessler began. Honest to god you could pinpoint the moment where both of them completely switched gears and became so enthusiastic at how poorly things were now going for Brady.

 

[Todd Bradley]

I'd reserve judgement until the transcript comes out, we just got tweeted sound bites and not many of the replies.
Two lawyers called into Dale and Holley and said they got hammered like today and walked out of the courtroom sure they lost the case only to win.

Both sides were hammered though.

They're only saying it "looks bad" for Brady because most thought this was going to be an easy layup.

No one thought the judges would bring the cellphone into questioning.

No one obviously knows why they did, but most mediots are taking that as a sign of doom, when in reality that has litlte to none to do with Berman's ruling. Thus I can't see why I should get worked up over info not pertinent to the actual appeal. Brady's guilt or innocence isn't what's at stake here, it's process and procedure.

 

[supafly]

I was listening to Felger and Mazz right at the exact time when the questioning of the NFL stopped and the questioning of Kessler began. Honest to god you could pinpoint the moment where both of them completely switched gears and became so enthusiastic at how poorly things were now going for Brady.

That really sucks to see the Boston media so against its hometown teams. Here in Pittsburgh, you get the exact opposite. It's constant ballwashing, over and over and over.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

If Brady does loose this appeal, at this point i would rather see him and Belichick retire on the spot. the damage to the league would far surpass the 5 million dollar report and the rest of the BS.

 

[supafly]

If Brady does loose this appeal, at this point i would rather see him and Belichick retire on the spot. the damage to the league would far surpass the 5 million dollar report and the rest of the BS.

I cringe at the thought of either one of them retiring (ever), let alone both of them retiring for some dumb stuff like this. It would be exactly what everyone would want to happen, outside of N.England.

All of the players, owners, executives, and mediots would be ecstatic to see this type of scenario.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

I cringe at the thought of either one of them retiring (ever), let alone both of them retiring for some dumb stuff like this. It would be exactly what everyone would want to happen, outside of N.England.

All of the players, owners, executives, and mediots would be ecstatic to see this type of scenario.

Good point. just s shame where this has all come to.

 

[DarrylS]

That really sucks to see the Boston media so against its hometown teams. Here in Pittsburgh, you get the exact opposite. It's constant ballwashing, over and over and over.

The media here likes losing more than winning, it gives them more to whine about.. if Brady does not win this appeal in their eyes it will generate more listeners or social media followers than if he wins..

It is why I listen less to sports talk.. bombasity and half truths abound.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I read somewhere that the party who gets the tougher questions on oral argument more often than not ends up winning.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[RobertWeathers]

Felger, Spaz and Tang are just trying to rile up the natives and pull in the disgruntled, frustrated and angry.

Objectivitity and rationality is not relevant.

 

[slash83]

So just to be clear, two of the three judges on this appeal case have to overturn all four of the previous judges rulings in order for Brady to be found guilty?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

One thing I don't get. We were told again and again, that this was about process and not evidence so the Ideal Gas Law wasn't and couldn't be brought in so the only question was whether Brady was afforded due process as outlined in the CBA..... So what happens??
One of the judges goes beyond what any evidence has shown and calls it compelling/overwhelming and Kessler gets shut down when he tries to bring up evidence.....
It's almost as if the judges went into this ( from my reading of the things released) with the preconceived notion that Brady was guilty and trying to get " off on a technicality" rather than being innocent of any malfeasance. How much of that was influenced by the NY tabloids or press? You will never convince me that these judges weren't affected/influenced by the NY media hammering Brady and the Patriots for the last 14 months... I hope I'm not reading too much into it but if Berman was a guide and judges' questions give you insight into their thinking, it does not look optimistic....

 

[Froob]

Found Tanguay's article on Google cache:

Tom Brady is going down.


I realize that is the sentiment after today's appeals hearing at the Second District Court of New York. Multiple observations have Brady's team taking a major hit today.


Now, this alone does not mean that the NFL will win its appeal. However, a source with connections to the case told me it does. This three judge panel will decide in favor of the NFL, Berman's ruling will be reversed and Brady's four-game suspension will be upheld.


Brady can appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court but the high court does not have to take the case.


Stay ready Jimmy Garoppolo.

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'll look smart if I'm right. LOL

We need to just ignore this clown already. Don't bother reposting his crap.