Does Dobson get cut when LaFell returns?

[NG Pats Fan]

Based on what? If they can't learn this offense or get Brady's trust they are done without even starting.

Your telling me Odell Beckham, Antonio brown, Hakeem Nicks in his prime wouldn't produce here? Brady would find a way to make it work with talents like that, trust me

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Tom Brady is the only great QB I have ever heard of whose never had a first round WR drafted for him. Can you imagine if belichick traded up and drafted talents like ODell Beckham Jr and Julio Jones? Brady would break every record out there.

Imagine combining Odell Beckham Jr with Edelman and Gronk? It would be the most unstoppable Offense of all time

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm not defending Dobson but I also don't put any stock in speculation about his work ethic. Draft evaluation is based on talent, not future unknowns such as foot and hamstring injuries.

I don't understand...aren't you speculating that his injury was a major part of the reason he failed here, without really having any solid knowledge of that? But you won't speculate on his work ethic? I can't remember which ones, but several beat writers (I think Reiss included) have specifically called out his work ethic and mentioned nothing about the injury as being a problem.

Sure, it's a different injury with Edelman, but so what? There is nothing out there to suggest Dobson's injury was anything that would be career changing forever. Gronkowski has suffered broken and rebroken forearm, an ACL/MCL tear, and numerous others. Amendola suffered a bad injury the same year as Dobson when he pulled his groin. I think if Dobson's injury were that bad, he would have been cut a long time ago

So, I am refuting your statement above because you are directly stating that Dobson's failures are attributed to injuries rather than a miscalculation of his talent and fit. I don't see it that way at all. And I never thought he was very good in 2013, when he averaged about 7 Yards per Target but had tons of targets., Even if he was just a rookie, he was playing due to necessity.

 

[pctronics0072]

Simple answer. Yes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Your telling me Odell Beckham, Antonio brown, Hakeem Nicks in his prime wouldn't produce here? Brady would find a way to make it work with talents like that, trust me

I understand your point. You are kinda moving the goal posts a little. Every offense is different

Beckham and Brown are elite receivers. You did not mention them in your first post. Of course they would do well here. They are on a whole different level.

Think of all the stuff that is expected of WRs in this offense and what TB12 expects of receivers here. Its unlike any other place.

Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks and Bryant are good players but to say that they are shoo-in 80/1000/10 guys here is a little too presumptuous IMO.

 

[Oswlek]

If patriots had drafted mike Wallace, Hakeem nicks, Beckham jr or Antonio brown trust me they would be producing here

Actually, the evidence suggests that Wallace would have flamed out as well. Or at least been another average guy who the team moves on from with little concern.

Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks and Bryant are good players but to say that they are shoo-in 80/1000/10 guys here is a little too presumptuous IMO.

Only Nicks looks like a good fit. In his prime, he would likely have been that kind of producer.

 

[rexxar]

I want this Dobson!



C'mon man. Get it together!

Please please please

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I understand your point. You are kinda moving the goal posts a little. Every offense is different

Beckham and Brown are elite receivers. You did not mention them in your first post. Of course they would do well here. They are on a whole different level.

Think of all the stuff that is expected of WRs in this offense and what TB12 expects of receivers here. Its unlike any other place.

Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks and Bryant are good players but to say that they are shoo-in 80/1000/10 guys here is a little too presumptuous IMO.

Ok understandable. I think the point I am trying to make is Brady has never been given a 22 year elite WR talent to develop in our system. Never. Never had a top 5 pick in the draft. I think Brady's made it work with less talent than other great QBs have been given. That's not to say we don't have talented guys. We have the most talented tight end of all time, Edelman has worked his way into an elite WR through hard work, and Lafell is a good WR who is entering his prime.

But look at other great QBs and what they have had for WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Rogers had Nelson Cobb and Jennings, Roethlisberger had Brown Wallace Plaxio and Ward. Etc etc

Brady's done more with less than anyone.


How many first round WRs have been drafted for Tom?

 

[New England Pride]

Its funny - it's really never even close to a completion either...

It's all fun and games until its a 40 yard jump ball that Slater karate chops on a 3rd and 2 in a road playoff game.

@PatsWickedPissah

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Actually, the evidence suggests that Wallace would have flamed out as well. Or at least been another average guy who the team moves on from with little concern.



Only Nicks looks like a good fit. In his prime, he would likely have been that kind of producer.

Why does Wallace flame out? What deep threat did the Patriots have even close to the level of Wallace? We had moss, and no one else is close. I think Brady could have found a way to get him the ball deep, he certainly wouldn't have overthrown Wallace with his speed.

Brady's deep ball has been inaccurate since 2009, but that's because we haven't got him a deep threat since

 

[PatsDeb]

This was my thought yesterday when Dobson was a healthy scratch, only reinforced when Martin made a tough fingertip catch for a first down. See ya later Dobson as soon as LaFell is ready to go. He's had a very few minor flashes of brilliance but mostly has been a disappointment.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ok understandable. I think the point I am trying to make is Brady has never been given a 22 year elite WR talent to develop in our system. Never. Never had a top 5 pick in the draft.

With the exception of Moss he has not had an elite receiver in this offense. With an elite receiver both TB12 and the elite receiver have enjoyed success.

I think Brady's made it work with less talent than other great QBs have been given. That's not to say we don't have talented guys. We have the most talented tight end of all time, Edelman has worked his way into an elite WR through hard work, and Lafell is a good WR who is entering his prime.

But look at other great QBs and what they have had for WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Rogers had Nelson Cobb and Jennings, Roethlisberger had Brown Wallace Plaxio and Ward. Etc etc

Brady's done more with less than anyone.

How many first round WRs have been drafted for Tom?

I agree. To come back to your original point which is to assume that receivers with elite physical ability would thrive here is where we disagree. There is a reason the Pats don't covet WRs high in the draft. The reason is that they put a premium on some qualities and less on others. For example, they weigh heavily positional flexibility, hands, route running, system experience, intelligence and 2-cone, 20yd times over 40 yard dashes. They value system fit over physical ability and talent and you really can't argue with the results.

Would Brady have had better career numbers with Moss for 10 years? Of course but keep in mind every player decision impacts the entire roster and cap.

 

[Oswlek]

Why does Wallace flame out?

Because his best skill is running in a straight line and sandlot adjustments when Ben keeps plays alive for 8 seconds. It's the same reason why he was disappointing in Miami and is on pace for a similar numbers in Minny. I also question his intelligence and whether he could grasp the offense.

The whole "deep threat" talk is largely fan nonsense. If running fast was all it took, then Tate would still be here. Or Slater would be a more viable threat. NE doesn't need deep threats, they need smart, capable receivers.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why does Wallace flame out? What deep threat did the Patriots have even close to the level of Wallace? We had moss, and no one else is close. I think Brady could have found a way to get him the ball deep, he certainly wouldn't have overthrown Wallace with his speed.

Brady's deep ball has been inaccurate since 2009, but that's because we haven't got him a deep threat since

In all likelihood, based upon their skill sets, Wallace and Bryant would have been offensive powerhouses in the Patriots system. Anyone who claims otherwise is making assumptions about behavior, not football play and skill set.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In all likelihood, based upon their skill sets, Wallace and Bryant would have been offensive powerhouses in the Patriots system. Anyone who claims otherwise is making assumptions about behavior, not football play and skill set.

I would agree on Wallace if he was a disciplined route-runner.

Here is one missive in which a Steeler fan implies Wallace was not that.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16092-Mike-Wallace-Route-Running

 

[Deus Irae]

I would agree on Wallace if he was a disciplined route-runner.

Here is one missive in which a Steeler fan implies Wallace was not that.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16092-Mike-Wallace-Route-Running

This year, Wallace has 20 catches on 24 targets, and is averaging 11.7 ypc. Why? Because he's running a lot more than just 9 routes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This year, Wallace has 20 catches on 24 targets, and is averaging 11.7 ypc. Why? Because he's running a lot more than just 9 routes.

I'm missing your point. Are you saying that running a more diversified set of routes makes him a better route runner?

In camp he talked about the MN offense being more suitable for him b/c he was doing more downfield stuff. The YPC seems not to indicate that.

I have not watched him play so I don't know. Seems like he is running more intermediate stuff?

 

[LJRomanoff]

I don't understand...aren't you speculating that his injury was a major part of the reason he failed here, without really having any solid knowledge of that? But you won't speculate on his work ethic?

It's not debatable that his injury impacted his contribution, which is why calling him a bust and consequently criticizing the Patriots scouts for failing to anticipate such an injury is ridiculous.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm missing your point. Are you saying that running a more diversified set of routes makes him a better route runner?

In camp he talked about the MN offense being more suitable for him b/c he was doing more downfield stuff. The YPC seems not to indicate that.

I have not watched him play so I don't know. Seems like he is running more intermediate stuff?

I'm saying that he's capable of running varied routes and getting open, at age 29, in the Vikings offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not debatable that his injury impacted his contribution, which is why calling him a bust and consequently criticizing the Patriots scouts for failing to anticipate such an injury is ridiculous.

He had issues before the injury.
He's had issues since the injury.
He was just a (theoretically) healthy inactive, while a recently traded WR4/WR5 from a receiver-poor Houston played nearly every snap.