Contracts to deal with

[mgteich]

The irony here is just......ironic

Should we discuss football pressure or do polls on how many game the team will win in 2016? There are lots of threads. Some of us think it reasonable to discuss Amendola and perhaps the options at WR.
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There are 5 decisions regarding bonuses and guarantees to be made by March 10 and there are 9 free agents. Each of these has been given two threads of their own (the first by Miguel a couple of weeks ago). There are a few players that folks think should be given pay cuts (say 6 including Amendola).

What do expect us to be discussing if not the contracts associated with these 25 situations? These is a draft sub-board to discuss the draft and presumably the combine. There are also posts on how we stand with the defense, the secondary, the offense and so on.

Personally, I would rather discuss the situation at #3 WR than discuss many of the subjects that other want to discuss. But that is a personal preference. Feel free to ignore threads about players who have contributed or are expected to contribute. The choice is yours. It is certainly not "ironic" that a patriot message board would spend a lot of time discussing players who may or may not return for 2015.

 

[mgteich]

No, I don't view Jerry Jones nor the NFLPA as a viable source for the 2015 NFL Salary Cap.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/01/29/nflpa-salary-cap-projection-2015/22559403/



As for Darrelle Revis, you don't know whether the New England Patriots will renegotiate a new contract or not. If a new contract is negotiated, you don't know what the salary cap figure will be for the 2015 NFL Season, in addition to the $5 million signing bonus carried over from last season.

If we should not discuss what we don't KNOW about, then Ian can close the board.

QUESTION FOR YOU: Do you believe that the patriots are even considering paying Revis $20M for his 2015 services.

I have seen dozens of analysis of possible Revis contracts. It takes considerable creativity to contract one where the 2015 cap hit for Revis is as much as $20 (a savings of $5M). Almost all suggestions have a higher savings. And no, the savings does not need to depend on the total AAV.

 

[Bruins29]

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. It is certainly not "ironic" that a patriot message board would spend a lot of time discussing players who may or may not return for 2015.

Of course not. The irony was directed at the person who suggested we should not talk about him while spending most of his energy this past year and all of last season.....talking about him to the point it was causing fights on the forum.

 

[Brady6]

Let's understand your analysis.

The patriots can pay Amendola $4.5M under his contract for his services or they can tear up his contract and sign a new contract with Amendola, if he is willing. That is the business decision that the patriots need to make.

What you are discussing is a negotiating ploy that you think that the patriots should use. Let us agree for a moment that Amendola's services on open market are worth $3M rather than the contracted $4.5M.

IN THIS SITUATION, your analysis tells us that Amendola should accept less than $3M, perhaps $1M because of the signing bonus he received two years ago. After all, taking $1M would be FAIR to the owners of the patriots. Amendola's average for the first 3 years of his contract would still mean that Amendola is being overpaid. Do I have your argument right?

Under these circumstances, I would expect an agent to recommend that Amendola refuse any offers that do not allow him to earn $3M (perhaps a bit less without incentives and more with incentives). Otherwise, i would expect the patriots to cut Amendola and for him to be playing somewhere else for much more than $1M (if his market value is $3M).
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We do NOT know Amendola's market value. However, it is clear that offering significantly less than market value to Amendola should result in his being cut. The fact that the patriots will use his old bonus as a reason to justify the offer makes no business sense. In any case, there is no reason for Amendola to accept such a deal.

I am NOT ruling out Amendola playing for the patriots for a discount (perhaps with incentives). I just don't think his 2013 bonus will have any effect on the decision.

I do not see a market for Amendola at $3M at all. We are talking about a nearly 30 year old slot receiver with a long injury history coming off a season in which he had 27 catches for 200 yards. I would put his value at $2M max and that is being generous.

 

[Miguel]

No offense to Miguel but I would prefer Robert Kraft to predict a salary cap figure instead of Jerry Jones.

Has Robert Kraft projected a cap number?

Last year the NFL's projection was off. So going with anyone is a good guess as theirs.

 

[ATippett56]

If we should not discuss what we don't KNOW about, then Ian can close the board.

QUESTION FOR YOU: Do you believe that the patriots are even considering paying Revis $20M for his 2015 services.

I have seen dozens of analysis of possible Revis contracts. It takes considerable creativity to contract one where the 2015 cap hit for Revis is as much as $20 (a savings of $5M). Almost all suggestions have a higher savings. And no, the savings does not need to depend on the total AAV.

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid in accordance to what Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson are currently paid for a net salary cap savings of $6 million for the 2015 NFL Season.

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid and Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner both become salary cap casualties. If Richard Seymour and Logan Mankins can be deemed expendable by the New England Patriots organization, then Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner can be as well.

I find it laughable that Danny Amendola is not considered expendable when Aaron Dobson in his rookie season posted more pass receptions and pass receiving yards than Danny Amendola last season. Furthermore, Aaron Dobson will be one full year removed from foot surgery this upcoming training camp and should be finally healthy once again.

 

[ATippett56]

Has Robert Kraft projected a cap number?

Last year the NFL's projection was off. So going with anyone is a good guess as theirs.

I find Robert Kraft more credible than Jerry Jones. I would prefer that Jerry Jones keep his mouth shut and let the NFL Management Council do its job. In similar regards, I would like for the NFL front office to stop all leaks before any formal investigation is concluded.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid in accordance to what Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson are currently paid for a net salary cap savings of $6 million for the 2015 NFL Season.

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid and Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner both become salary cap casualties. If Richard Seymour and Logan Mankins can be deemed expendable by the New England Patriots organization, then Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner can be as well.

I find it laughable that Danny Amendola is not considered expendable when Aaron Dobson in his rookie season posted more pass receptions and pass receiving yards than Danny Amendola last season. Furthermore, Aaron Dobson will be one full year removed from foot surgery this upcoming training camp and should be finally healthy once again.

3 things on Amendola:

1.) He sucked in year one of his deal, post-injury
2.) This past season, he was absolute garbage until game 15
3.) For whatever reason (healthy, quite possibly), he was much better weeks 15-16, and in the playoffs


We'll know how the Patriots view those last 5 games by how they handle Amendola's contract moving forward. If they think it was just a short term blip on the radar, Amendola will either be taking a big cut, or he'll be gone. If they think that's going to be Amendola moving forward, we won't be hearing about anything beyond a small cut or restructure.



Just my $.02

 

[mgteich]

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid in accordance to what Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson are currently paid for a net salary cap savings of $6 million for the 2015 NFL Season.

I can foresee a scenario where Darrelle Revis is paid and Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner both become salary cap casualties. If Richard Seymour and Logan Mankins can be deemed expendable by the New England Patriots organization, then Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner can be as well.

I find it laughable that Danny Amendola is not considered expendable when Aaron Dobson in his rookie season posted more pass receptions and pass receiving yards than Danny Amendola last season. Furthermore, Aaron Dobson will be one full year removed from foot surgery this upcoming training camp and should be finally healthy once again.

Please give an example of a Revis contract similar to Sherman where the net salary cap savings is $6M.

No one has said that Amendola isn't expendable. Of course, most of us are not ready to count on Dobson as our #3 either.

 

[Bruins29]

If Richard Seymour and Logan Mankins can be deemed expendable by the New England Patriots organization, then Danny Amendola and Brandon Browner can be as well.

.

I see your point but the situations are not really comparable.

 

[ATippett56]

Please give an example of a Revis contract similar to Sherman where the net salary cap savings is $6M.

No one has said that Amendola isn't expendable. Of course, most of us are not ready to count on Dobson as our #3 either.

Darrelle Revis current salary cap figure - $25 million

http://www.patscap.com/revis.html#revis

Darrelle Revis new contract - 4 years @ $14 million per season
Darrelle Revis prorated signing bonus amortization - $5 million (carried over from 2014)
Darrell Revis total salary cap 2015 NFL Season - $19 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/richard-sherman/

Richard Sherman signed a 4 year / $56,000,000 contract with the Seattle Seahawks, including a $11,000,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $14,000,000.

$25 million - $19 million = $6 million salary cap savings

 

[ATippett56]

I see your point but the situations are not really comparable.

Baloney.

The dead money associated with the Logan Mankins contract is far more egregious with regards to the New England Patriots salary cap:

http://www.patscap.com/2014capinfo.html

2014 - $4,255,600
2015 - $4,000,000

 

[Bruins29]

Baloney.

The dead money associated with the Logan Mankins contract is far more egregious with regards to the New England Patriots salary cap:

http://www.patscap.com/2014capinfo.html

2014 - $4,255,600
2015 - $4,000,000

Are the Pats going to get a 1st rounder or a 4th and a TE with a lot of promise right now for DA?

 

[mgteich]

Darrelle Revis current salary cap figure - $25 million

http://www.patscap.com/revis.html#revis

Darrelle Revis new contract - 4 years @ $14 million per season
Darrelle Revis prorated signing bonus amortization - $5 million (carried over from 2014)
Darrell Revis total salary cap 2015 NFL Season - $19 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/richard-sherman/



$25 million - $19 million = $6 million salary cap savings

OK, I just don't recall ever seeing a major long-term contract with no signing bonus.

You might note the first year salary and cap hit on Sherman's contract.

I suggest that rather than a SB on $0 and a first year salary of $14M, a $21M bonus and a $1M-$3M first year salary is more likely. However, you are correct that taking a $19M 2015 cap hit is possible.

 

[ATippett56]

Are the Pats going to get a 1st rounder or a 4th and a TE with a lot of promise right now for DA?

I'll take precious salary cap space right now. What did the New England Patriots receive for cutting Lawyer Milloy? What did the New England Patriots receive for cutting Ty Law? Salary cap space.

The New England Patriots drafted one wide receiver in second round of the 2013 NFL Draft and one wide receiver in the fourth round of the 2013 NFL Draft.

Edelman
LaFell
Dobson - 2013 NFL Draft 2nd Round
Boyce - 2013 NFL Draft 4th Round
Slater

Five wide receivers aren't good enough for you? I'm sorry that Aaron Dobson broke his foot, underwent surgery, and was placed on injured reserve. I'm sorry that Aaron Dobson in his rookie season produced more pass receptions and more pass receiving yards than Danny Amendola last season. I'm sorry that I'm willing to be more patient with the development of wide receivers named Dobson and Boyce than you, Mr. Instant Gratification.

 

[Ivan]

That was not the case for Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...id/4719728/analysis-of-ochocincos-restructure

,

Baloney.

The dead money associated with the Logan Mankins contract is far more egregious with regards to the New England Patriots salary cap:

http://www.patscap.com/2014capinfo.html

2014 - $4,255,600
2015 - $4,000,000

Why would there be dead money,in a trade?

 

[mgteich]

,



Why would there be dead money,in a trade?

The money is associated with unamortized bonuses which are not traded.

 

[ATippett56]

,



Why would there be dead money,in a trade?

The signing bonus remains with the original team.

 

[ATippett56]

I see your point but the situations are not really comparable.

Danny Amendola versus Mr Patriot Troy Brown

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=2002716

http://www.patscap.com/2005capinfo.html

Oh yeah, Danny Amendola could not carry Troy Brown's jock strap.

 

[Bruins29]

Five wide receivers aren't good enough for you? I'm sorry that Aaron Dobson broke his foot, underwent surgery, and was placed on injured reserve. I'm sorry that Aaron Dobson in his rookie season produced more pass receptions and more pass receiving yards than Danny Amendola last season. I'm sorry that I'm willing to be more patient with the development of wide receivers named Dobson and Boyce than you, Mr. Instant Gratification.

Yes. because I am sure that any poster here (and most are all in agreement on the issue) that would like DA on the roster and would (shudder the thought) want to pay him more than your insulating, unrealistic 1 million per is just someone looking for instant gratification.

Yeah, that is it. And I see now you are going to go though and look at every player the pats ever moved on from and use it for you basis to prove DA just isnt worth it.

You are a clever guy aren't you. Probably a real barrel of laughs our drinking with the guys.