The Trade - 8 Games Later

[Oswlek]

I agree with the first part of your post. I think it did cost us a game (or 2) and stunted the OL in terms of gelling as a unit until just recently. As for Wright, i believe the only rookie TE with more production so far is Amaro. If Wright had been in this years draft I think the overall opinion by most would be positive if we had taken him at 62 or 93 or even 130 as many here were pining for another TE in the draft.

He's was a known commodity and that was a plus and I would consider him a solid 3rd RD talent from what we've seen so far, even though reality was he was a UDRFA last year. All in all I consider this trade akin to getting a 3rd and 4th in return. We'll have to wait and see what the 4th eventually yields, but it seems like a win at this point.

The one thing I didn't like about it was the fact that Mankins was approached before the season (in Feb. I thought I heard) about a restructure and refused, so his days were #'d. Making that trade a week before the first game left a bitter taste in everyones mouth. Should have happened long before the end of August. As I stated, the jury is still out on the trade, it was just the timing I thought really sucked.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe Mankins would have earned either win. Logan was dominated in the loss to Miami last year and the team couldn't stop Miami all game sans turnovers. KC is out of the question unless you want to pretend that the team was still suffering from Mankins hangover a full month into the season - a ridiculous argument.

No, the most logical thought process is that the team would be an equal 6-2, only the Miami game would have been a closer loss and the team would be in a worse position going forward, both in 2014 and beyond.

 

[Oswlek]

It was a good trade in hindsight now.

And even not in hindsight. Here is what I wrote at the time:

There's a whole lot of stupid going on with this trade. I'm shocked that anyone would find this surprising or think that NE came out significantly behind. Mankins has been a $3mm guy costing $10mm for three years now. Of course he was gone, by next offseason at the absolute latest. Letting him go now provides more cap room (now, and especially in 2015/2016) and some return.

I've heard some scoff at what NE received, but given Mankins' level of play the past few seasons, his age and likely decline, his top value might have been a 3rd rounder if traded solely for draft capital. Instead NE got what looks to be a top half 4th and a promising receiver at a position a need. Certainly the need is far greater than guard, particularly after the OL investments in April.

I've also heard some say that NE didn't need the cap space and could have waited until next year, or the sister argument, that only if this leads directly to an extension will it be a good deal. Both of these arguments are non-sequitors.

Did NE need the cap space right this second? No, but that's because they make moves like this to avoid painting themselves into a corner. Making a hard choice without be forced to do so is an asset, not a liability. Those making the wait argument are completely missing the point that NE would have higher dead hits in 2015 and 2016 if they waited as well.

As for the sister argument, of course NE is going to use the space! What kind of idiot would suggest otherwise? If it doesn't lead to retaining McCourty or Revis, it'll roll into next year and help them sign or retain someone else. Why in the world is saving cap space only a good thing if you then use it within a week? What kind of argument is that?

I felt like standing up and slow clapping the front office when I heard about this move. Hell, it even inspired me to check out EEI and NEST again, which is a big reason why I'm venting now.

Good on you, FO.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'm not as down on it as I was at the time the trade was made, but I'm still not convinced it was the right move. Ask me again the first Sunday of February.

 

[mgteich]

The Pats do have some leverage since he is under contract.

No, that's funny. His contract calls for him to play for $20M. No one is going to pay him $20M. If someone will, then he will be happy to show up and collect the $20M.

 

[mgteich]

I was against the trade at the time. We probably would have won at Miami with Mankins. It did take a long time for the OL to come together. Most of that was because of injuries. The OL is solid now (with Kline and Cannon as backups). It is strange to me that it took so long to understand that Cannon is an OT and that Kline is our best backup OG. The OL COULD have cost us more games; they did not. I do think that the value of the $7M is somewhat overdone. HOWEVER, theoretically, we could have used the money for a pretty good rent-a-player (we still could). Or, we could use the money in 2015.
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And then there is the acquisition of Wright, the TE we have been seeking for awhile and we couldn't find in the draft. FINALLY, the offense is complete with a 2nd TE threat. The value of Wright is what was missing in our analysis at the time of the trade.
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And where is the weakness on offense? Well, you might check out the production of our #3/#4/#5 receivers.

 

[Rob0729]

No, that's funny. His contract calls for him to play for $20M. No one is going to pay him $20M. If someone will, then he will be happy to show up and collect the $20M.

They won't pay him that money, but his roster bonus of $12 million isn't due to April 1st. So they can hold onto him for the first few weeks of free agency when everyone is doling out the big money.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4760152/details-on-darrelle-revis-contract

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady is healthy and is sacked less, they are scoring almost 30ppg and Wright is contributing more and more every week. As long as he continues to trend upwards, he'll be a key cog in the game plans week in week out. I think they miss LM in the running game but I'm not overly sure of that.

In terms of it being a great trade, based on how they spend the money and how the draft picks turn out that they received in return will allow us to better answer the question.

 

[Oswlek]

We probably would have won at Miami with Mankins.

That is, at best, a 50/50 proposition. Mankins struggled against Miami's DL last year and he hasn't been a plus pass protector in years, so Brady having more time is no sure thing. Mankins also wouldn't have been much help in slowing Moreno down.

From where I sit, Miami wins that game 75% of the time based on how it played out.

 

[PP2]

It's amazing how everyone's plot lines sync up...

Personally I'm not counting on BB making the kind of offer that will keep Revis in town. He's more than happy to rent a guy for a year (see Talib, Aqib).

The Mankins move wasn't about clearing up cap space for Revis. The kind of cut BB was asking Mankins to take certainly wouldn't free up the kind of money Revis will want at the end of a solid season.

To me it was more about paying a certain value for a certain kind of player in a certain role, which is why I don't think we'll see BB pay what Revis will want at the end of a solid season.

I wouldn't be so fast on that, if I were you.

For the first time in his career, Revis is with a winning team and a professional franchise. Don't think he's ever been on a team that's won 4 straight, and a team that just completely dominates. The taste in his mouth is pretty sweet right now.

I think he'll want to stay here and will be open to a more team-friendly deal.

 

[bresna]

Jeez, even with him on ignore, Deus still manages to destroy another thread.

 

[Ring 6]

I was against the trade at the time. We probably would have won at Miami with Mankins.

Only people who admit to the first sentence would kid themselves with the second.

It did take a long time for the OL to come together. Most of that was because of injuries. The OL is solid now (with Kline and Cannon as backups). It is strange to me that it took so long to understand that Cannon is an OT and that Kline is our best backup OG.

Cannon was one of the 5 best OL on the team. As is often said here, you want to get the 5 best on the field. You cannot know how Cannon will play at G until you play him at G. Not so sure that Kline comment has any basis to it. I would be shocked if Fleming is behind Kline and Devey/Kline seems to be a week to week thing.

The OL COULD have cost us more games; they did not.

What does this mean?

I do think that the value of the $7M is somewhat overdone. HOWEVER, theoretically, we could have used the money for a pretty good rent-a-player (we still could). Or, we could use the money in 2015.

Its an important part of the equation, because it was integral in the decision. If we weren't saving cap money, the trade may not have happened. That cap money is future benefit.

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And then there is the acquisition of Wright, the TE we have been seeking for awhile and we couldn't find in the draft. FINALLY, the offense is complete with a 2nd TE threat. The value of Wright is what was missing in our analysis at the time of the trade.

I think everyone included Wright in their analysis. I think some are over-exaggerating what his role is, such as you saying we have been seeking him for awhile. We had Hernandez up until last season. Wright has absolutely not turned us into a 2 TE base offense. He played 5 snaps in the first half yesterday.

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And where is the weakness on offense? Well, you might check out the production of our #3/#4/#5 receivers.

Given the production and success throwing to the #1 TE #1 and #2 WR #1 RB and #2 TE I'm not sure how this constitutes a weakness. We have quality players in those spots who have not been needed.

 

[chasa]

Jeez, even with him on ignore, Deus still manages to destroy another thread.

It's a shame he cant be narc'd up all the time, He's pretty cool when hes not himself.

 

[Rob0729]

I was against the trade at the time. We probably would have won at Miami with Mankins.

I just don't know how anyone can argue that when Cameron Wake was dominating Vollmer on the other side of the line and the Pats' defense was garbage in the second half.

 

[shmessy]

I'm not as down on it as I was at the time the trade was made, but I'm still not convinced it was the right move. Ask me again the first Sunday of February.

Why?

In 9 seasons of Logan Mankins in New England, they have never won a game on that first Sunday in February.

I don't think Tampa is going to either this year.

 

[OhExaulted1]

There is no reason whatsoever to believe Mankins would have earned either win. Logan was dominated in the loss to Miami last year and the team couldn't stop Miami all game sans turnovers. KC is out of the question unless you want to pretend that the team was still suffering from Mankins hangover a full month into the season - a ridiculous argument.

No, the most logical thought process is that the team would be an equal 6-2, only the Miami game would have been a closer loss and the team would be in a worse position going forward, both in 2014 and beyond.

Not trying to say Mankins could have single-handedly made the difference in those losses. I'm just saying it hurt locker room chemistry and the chemistry of the line. JMHO. It was obvious the line was in dissarray and was not clicking. As I said before:

I think the trade is going to turn out in our favor in the long run. The timing SUCKED, that's how I view it. Not saying it was the end-all be-all factor, but I don't think it helped.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Before I go all in on the trade for Wright, let's wait and see if he goes on a murder spree or stays clean

 

[RayClay]

The Oline will get better. Mankins won't. Of course, I was in favor of this all the way.

 

[bresna]

Not trying to say Mankins could have single-handedly made the difference in those losses. I'm just saying it hurt locker room chemistry and the chemistry of the line. JMHO. It was obvious the line was in dissarray and was not clicking. As I said before:

I think the trade is going to turn out in our favor in the long run. The timing SUCKED, that's how I view it. Not saying it was the end-all be-all factor, but I don't think it helped.

How do you know this is an absolute truth? All I heard was that Brady was upset, but that is not the same thing as saying that it messed up the chemistry of the O-line. In fact, I bet there were a few guys on that line that were ecstatic at the trade. One guy got a chance to show his stuff as a starter. In the NFL, that's money.

 

[OhExaulted1]

JMHO is not a statement of absolute truth. it stands for "Just My Humble OPINION. IMHO (In My Humble OPINION) I think continuity along an offensive line can be money, especially with a new coordinator taking over for a legend.

I think it may have been a factor. These guys aren't robotic Madden animations.

 

[shmessy]

JMHO is not a statement of absolute truth. it stands for "Just My Humble OPINION. IMHO (In My Humble OPINION) I think continuity along an offensive line can be money, especially with a new coordinator taking over for a legend.

I think it may have been a factor. These guys aren't robotic Madden animations.

Duhhhh......

They're METAPHORS!