Logan Mankins Traded

[Nunchucks]

Hard to have it both ways. You are counting the LG chickens before they hatch.

So, how confident are you that one of the guys they plug in at LG will give you a close approximation of Logan Mankins?

Besides that, you know what Logan give you, these guys we are plugging in are the eggs...your analogy is backwards.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Summary in my mind a day and a half later:

4-2015). They generally pay up to about $5-7mm of the cap, and roll all unused space forward.

CONS:

Clear message to veterans that the Patriots do not respect veteran contracts - see Mankins, Wilfork, Milloy, etc. Add in Kelly, Ocho Cinco, Lloyd, Warren, Seymour, Vrabel, Dillon, Bledsoe. Can't help attract future veterans. Note that several of those were team captains.

Please tell me about other teams that respect bloated underachieving (relative to salary) veteran contracts so I can learn about how big a negotiating disadvantage this is to the Pats. Please name the teams since you clearly know which ones they are.

Sometimes I can't believe the stuff I read on this forum!

 

[Nunchucks]

Funny, up until the day of the trade, near universally the #1 or #2 concern about this team was the TE position. Now that the Pats actually added a TE who can actually catch the ball other than Gronk, the spin is Brady already has plenty of receiving options already?

I think this trade has the POTENTIAL to make the Pats' offense significantly better. Not turn it from an average offense to elite offense or anything like that, but adding a TE who can catch anywhere from 40-70 catches this year will only make it harder for teams to cover all the other weapons at Brady's disposal and make this offense more dynamic and not make the Pats not have a TE at all if Gronk goes down.

I was not too concerned with the TE position. The Patriots have moved to a 3 WR set offense. Wright will barely be a TE for the Patriots, he is a pretty terrible blocker.

 

[Rob0729]

So, how confident are you that one of the guys they plug in at LG will give you a close approximation of Logan Mankins?

Besides that, you know what Logan give you, these guys we are plugging in are the eggs...your analogy is backwards.

I think it will be hard to replace Mankins as a run blocker, as a pass blocker it won't be that hard. If Wright can give the Pats at least 40 catches, I'd gladly give up his run blocking ability.

Again, Mankins is a guard. The only time I think who your guard is matters a lot is if he is truly elite (which Mankins isn't anymore) or he totally sucks (we will see with his replacement).

 

[Bruins29]

I meant this year...not comparing to last year.

Ok but still remains to be seen. AS pointed out the drop off from LM to whomover will probably be worse, but how much worse and are we sure it will be worse. It could be around the same.

The addition to the move TE position was just greatly upgraded. So I fail to see how an definitive upgrade to a position of clear weakness (particularly when it takes advantage of our GOAT QBS greatest strength in a league that is letting receivers go completely untouched) is worse than a possible or even probable downgrade to the LG spot.

We know Move TE was greatly upgraded
We dont know of LG was downgraded or downgraded enough to offset the other upgrade.

Would you agree?

 

[mayoclinic]

So, how confident are you that one of the guys they plug in at LG will give you a close approximation of Logan Mankins?

Besides that, you know what Logan give you, these guys we are plugging in are the eggs...your analogy is backwards.

I'm guessing the Pats are fairly confident, or else they wouldn't have made this move. Not that there isn't a risk involved, and they could be wrong. But the FO isn't about making the team worse, and if they thought there would be an unacceptable dropoff then they wouldn't have made this move.

Teams trade or cut established veterans in favor of younger players all the time, for cap purposes and to make way for young talent. It's a judgment call. Pittsburgh cut Joey Porter in 2007 both for cap space and to give some young kid named James Harrison a shot. It was a very controversial move at the time, but they obviously had a good enough evaluation of their own talent. Porter was on the way down, and Harrison an ascending star. It doesn't always work out that well, and teams make mistakes.

We won't know for sure how this one works out for a bit. But the coaching staff and FO have had the benefit of seeing the players on the field for all of preseason, and I'm guessing they have a better assessment of how much dropoff there will be (if any) than we do.

 

[Rob0729]

I was not too concerned with the TE position. The Patriots have moved to a 3 WR set offense. Wright will barely be a TE for the Patriots, he is a pretty terrible blocker.

Other than Gronk and probably a small handful of other TEs, name the receiving TEs who can actually block. There aren't many who can. Gronk is more of the exception than the rule. The Saints just made Jimmy Graham the highest paid TE in history and I am pretty sure that I can block better than he can. If that is your biggest argument against Wright, you don't have much of an argument.

And the Pats had moved to a three WR offense because that is what they had on the roster, not because that is what they wanted to do. Belichick comes from the school of the Perkins-Ehrhardt offensive system that is predicated on the two TE set.

And although I think Gronk will play all year, how could you not be concerned about the TE position. Gronk goes down again and they literally had no TE other than ones that could help in the blocking game.

 

[Bruins29]

I was not too concerned with the TE position. The Patriots have moved to a 3 WR set offense. Wright will barely be a TE for the Patriots, he is a pretty terrible blocker.

Really, up until this trade our only legit TE was someone who was constantly injured.

With Brady completely lethal with the short to mid game and an NFL not allowing receivers to be touched you have another physical weapon for Brady that plays to his strength and the advantage receivers get.

And you may have been the only not concerned with the TE position. But since you vehemently hate this trade you are now spinning your hatred it any direction to have it justified.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm seeing a lot of people jumping on the "Wright is a terrible blocker" bandwagon. I'm not going to refute it, because I honestly don't know, and neither does anyone else here. Prior to this trade, was anyone doing a big extensive film study on this kid's game? We've gotten some reports that he's not known as a great blocker, then through a game of telephone it's progressing:

"Reports are he's not a great blocker."
"He has a lot of trouble blocking."
"He's a terrible blocker."
"He's basically a wide receiver, he doesn't block at all."

He doesn't have to be a mauler. He doesn't have to take on LB's and open up huge holes. He needs to be able to block DB's when the defense decides to cover him with smaller guys. That's what a big receiver or tight end gives you: the mismatch. Put a linebacker on him, and he's got enough quickness to beat him in the passing game. Put a CB or S on him, and he's got enough size to prevent that guy from making a play in the run game. We'll see if he can do that, but I haven't read anything that says he can't. People are just taking the fact that he's not on Gronk's level of blocking and running with it.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm seeing a lot of people jumping on the "Wright is a terrible blocker" bandwagon. I'm not going to refute it, because I honestly don't know, and neither does anyone else here. Prior to this trade, was anyone doing a big extensive film study on this kid's game? We've gotten some reports that he's not known as a great blocker, then through a game of telephone it's progressing:

"Reports are he's not a great blocker."
"He has a lot of trouble blocking."
"He's a terrible blocker."
"He's basically a wide receiver, he doesn't block at all."

He doesn't have to be a mauler. He doesn't have to take on LB's and open up huge holes. He needs to be able to block DB's when the defense decides to cover him with smaller guys. That's what a big receiver or tight end gives you: the mismatch. Put a linebacker on him, and he's got enough quickness to beat him in the passing game. Put a CB or S on him, and he's got enough size to prevent that guy from making a play in the run game. We'll see if he can do that, but I haven't read anything that says he can't. People are just taking the fact that he's not on Gronk's level of blocking and running with it.

Yeah, the Pats are very unlikely to ask him to be an inline blocker (Hernandez rarely did that too). I am sure he can hold his own against a 200lb CB.

 

[Nunchucks]

Ok but still remains to be seen. AS pointed out the drop off from LM to whomover will probably be worse, but how much worse and are we sure it will be worse. It could be around the same.

The addition to the move TE position was just greatly upgraded. So I fail to see how an definitive upgrade to a position of clear weakness (particularly when it takes advantage of our GOAT QBS greatest strength in a league that is letting receivers go completely untouched) is worse than a possible or even probable downgrade to the LG spot.

We know Move TE was greatly upgraded
We dont know of LG was downgraded or downgraded enough to offset the other upgrade.

Would you agree?

Well we didn't have a move TE, so we may have gotten one...remains to be seen.

I think that the Patriots can only put a limited number of receivers on the field at one time. I would rather see 3 WRs, Vereen and Gronk on the field instead of 2 WRs, 2 TEs and Vereen.

 

[Nunchucks]

Other than Gronk and probably a small handful of other TEs, name the receiving TEs who can actually block. There aren't many who can. Gronk is more of the exception than the rule. The Saints just made Jimmy Graham the highest paid TE in history and I am pretty sure that I can block better than he can. If that is your biggest argument against Wright, you don't have much of an argument.

And the Pats had moved to a three WR offense because that is what they had on the roster, not because that is what they wanted to do. Belichick comes from the school of the Perkins-Ehrhardt offensive system that is predicated on the two TE set.

And although I think Gronk will play all year, how could you not be concerned about the TE position. Gronk goes down again and they literally had no TE other than ones that could help in the blocking game.

These other TEs may not be great blockers but they can at least manage it a little bit. Wright is a 2nd year TE weighing in a generous 235. He has a long weigh to go to even get into the Graham level of crappy blocking ability.

 

[Nunchucks]

Really, up until this trade our only legit TE was someone who was constantly injured.

With Brady completely lethal with the short to mid game and an NFL not allowing receivers to be touched you have another physical weapon for Brady that plays to his strength and the advantage receivers get.

And you may have been the only not concerned with the TE position. But since you vehemently hate this trade you are now spinning your hatred it any direction to have it justified.

lol, I don't hate the trade, I dislike it, very different. Wright is not going to be asked to block very much....it comes down to would you rather have Amendola/Thompkins/Dobson/LaFell on the field or Wright.

 

[Sicilian]

These other TEs may not be great blockers but they can at least manage it a little bit. Wright is a 2nd year TE weighing in a generous 235. He has a long weigh to go to even get into the Graham level of crappy blocking ability.

And again, where are you getting this? I haven't read anything of the sort, but people keep spouting it as if they've broken down the film and it's an irrefutable fact. If he actually has a "long way to go" to reach Jimmy freakin' Graham, then he should probably be a kicker.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, the Pats are very unlikely to ask him to be an inline blocker (Hernandez rarely did that too). I am sure he can hold his own against a 200lb CB.

He will be blocking LBs mostly if he is in a Hernandez like position.

 

[Rob0729]

Well we didn't have a move TE, so we may have gotten one...remains to be seen.

I think that the Patriots can only put a limited number of receivers on the field at one time. I would rather see 3 WRs, Vereen and Gronk on the field instead of 2 WRs, 2 TEs and Vereen.

Again, the guy had a fantastic rookie season. Why are you writing it off? He had more yards last year than either Gronk or Hernandez did their rookie seasons. In fact since 2000, only two TEs had more yards their rookie season than Wright (granted one was John Carlson who never really improved on his rookie season, but had a good second season and was hampered by playing for crap QBs in Seattle).

 

[Bruins29]

Well we didn't have a move TE, so we may have gotten one...remains to be seen.

I think that the Patriots can only put a limited number of receivers on the field at one time. I would rather see 3 WRs, Vereen and Gronk on the field instead of 2 WRs, 2 TEs and Vereen.

Well considering Wright had the 3rd best rookie TE season of all time on a crap team with crap QB I am betting its more likely we have one than the team is worse because of freaking LMs departure.

 

[Ring 6]

These other TEs may not be great blockers but they can at least manage it a little bit. Wright is a 2nd year TE weighing in a generous 235. He has a long weigh to go to even get into the Graham level of crappy blocking ability.

I see what you did there.

 

[Rob0729]

These other TEs may not be great blockers but they can at least manage it a little bit. Wright is a 2nd year TE weighing in a generous 235. He has a long weigh to go to even get into the Graham level of crappy blocking ability.

You are you making most of this stuff up at this point. You have no idea about his blocking ability. In fact, since the Bucs were so crappy last year and no one followed him, you probably didn't even know who this guy was two days ago.

Yeah, he is an extremely light TE, but that isn't the only thing that makes a good blocker. Look at Danny Woodhead, he is 5 foot nothing, but he learned to block pretty well with technique that took advantage of his short stature.

 

[Bruins29]

lol, I don't hate the trade, I dislike it, very different. Wright is not going to be asked to block very much....it comes down to would you rather have Amendola/Thompkins/Dobson/LaFell on the field or Wright.

But your reasons for disliking it or at least what you are telling us arent logical and are one sided.

It comes across as LM was an irreplaceable All-pro - which he isnt and Wright cant block and isnt an asset at a great position of need.

Perhaps if you were more objective less people in this thread would be jumping on you.