Matthew Slater

[Brady6]

Umm.. Gostkowski has a higher cap hit than Slater. In fact, there are 8 kickers who have a higher Cap hit than Slater. There are also 10 Punters who have a higher cap hit than Slater.

Comparing kickers and punters to Slater is like comparing a quarterback to Slater. There fewer kickers in punters in the NFL, than there are players who can perform the duties of a gunner.

For you to say that Slater "is the highest cap hit of any core four special teams player in the NFL that does not contribute on an offensive or defensive unit" without actually providing a list of players that it would include SCREAMS of you trying to narrow the field down so you look like you know what you are talking about. So, let's see the list. Show us all the players who are "core four special teams players in the NFL that do not contribute on an offensive or defensive unit" so we can see if what you say is true.

No, I am trying to compare Slater to other players in the NFL who play the same role for their teams.

These are those 10 players cap figures for 2014 –

Bethel -$598K
Lane -$730K
Slater-$2.26M
Easley-$490K
Stuckey-$1.16M
Smith-$762K
Campbell-$656K
Jones -$745K
Davis -$570K
Bademosi-$570K

As for what Larry Izzo received as compensation, you seem to have overlooked the fact that the salary cap was significantly less during Izzo's tenure than it has been while Slater has been here.

Izzo was paid around the minimum for his service years every season he was here.

Slater's on more special teams units (there are 6 in total, not 4 like you stated, btw).

Slater does not play on the field goal protection or field goal block units.

 

[meatface]

I Consider him a near lock and I would be surprised if he got cut, The Pats aren't in dire cap straights that they need to cut Slater but if BB thought Ebner had surpassed Slater then I could see it happening

 

[RayClay]

Comparing kickers and punters to Slater is like comparing a quarterback to Slater. There fewer kickers in punters in the NFL, than there are players who can perform the duties of a gunner.


No, I am trying to compare Slater to other players in the NFL who play the same role for their teams.

These are those 10 players cap figures for 2014 –

Bethel -$598K
Lane -$730K
Slater-$2.26M
Easley-$490K
Stuckey-$1.16M
Smith-$762K
Campbell-$656K
Jones -$745K
Davis -$570K
Bademosi-$570K

Izzo was paid around the minimum for his service years every season he was here.

Slater does not play on the field goal protection or field goal block units.

Truly hilarious. I applaud your efforts.

 

[Brady6]

Truly hilarious. I applaud your efforts.

What is funny?

 

[Sciz]

These are those 10 players cap figures for 2014 –

Bethel -$598K
Lane -$730K
Slater-$2.26M
Easley-$490K
Stuckey-$1.16M
Smith-$762K
Campbell-$656K
Jones -$745K
Davis -$570K
Bademosi-$570K

There is no point at all in comparing the cap hit of a player on a rookie contract to the cap hit of a player off his rookie contract. If those other top special teams players can continue to excel, then they will get paid more once they reach free agency.

 

[Jackson 2]

I Consider him a near lock and I would be surprised if he got cut, The Pats aren't in dire cap straights that they need to cut Slater but if BB thought Ebner had surpassed Slater then I could see it happening

Not intending to denigrate you or Ebner, but at least for now, Ebner isn't close to Slater as a ST player.

 

[DaBruinz]

I disagree. I question paying Slater for future years because of his age. Slater is a gunner who relies on his speed to perform at a high level, as he enters his 30s it is likely his speed and athletic talents will diminish.

There are only two contracts that I am not fond of Danny Amendola and Kyle Arringtons. Outside of those I have no issue with anyone's salary.

Yes, because that's what we're talking about.. The least you could do is stay on topic..

 

[DaBruinz]

Comparing kickers and punters to Slater is like comparing a quarterback to Slater. There fewer kickers in punters in the NFL, than there are players who can perform the duties of a gunner.

My comparison works more than yours does. Hell, you can't even follow your own statement..

"is the highest cap hit of any core four special teams player in the NFL that does not contribute on an offensive or defensive unit"

No, I am trying to compare Slater to other players in the NFL who play the same role for their teams.

But that's just it. You aren't comparing them. And, as I said, the list is so SMALL, that not worth talking about. You are the king of mountains of of nothing.

These are those 10 players cap figures for 2014 –

Bethel -$598K
Lane -$730K
Slater-$2.26M
Easley-$490K
Stuckey-$1.16M
Smith-$762K
Campbell-$656K
Jones -$745K
Davis -$570K
Bademosi-$570K

Izzo was paid around the minimum for his service years every season he was here.

Slater does not play on the field goal protection or field goal block units.

You use crappy stats and crappy sites that try to compare apples and orange.. You dissect things to the miniscule level and think you have a point. You don't. The fact there are only 10 players in your group is PROOF of that. There are 32 teams with a minimum of 2 gunners per team. Hell, you can't even say that the other 9 players fit into your category of "is the highest cap hit of any core four special teams player in the NFL that does not contribute on an offensive or defensive unit".

You've failed, yet again, to make a cogent argument.

 

[Brady6]

There is no point at all in comparing the cap hit of a player on a rookie contract to the cap hit of a player off his rookie contract. If those other top special teams players can continue to excel, then they will get paid more once they reach free agency.

This is one of the most overused assertions on this board, it is completely flawed it implies you have no choice but to resign the player. We opted not to pay many key players and instead drafted replacement in advance of their contracts expiring. Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Carter, Anderson, Spikes, and others have all been permitted to walk and replaced with a younger less expensive player, are you suggesting that we could not do the same thing with our gunner?

I am not saying we should have, I am just saying we could have so comparing the contract options is valid.

 

[Brady6]

You've failed, yet again, to make a cogent argument.

The only thing I failed at is remembering why I had you on my ignore list, you are incapable of any type of discussion without becoming a completely prick for no reason. Back to ignore you go!

 

[Brady6]

Yes, because that's what we're talking about.. The least you could do is stay on topic..

We are talking about Slater and his future. Primetime made a comment that I want everyone to make next to nothing, I said that is not the case and told him the two contracts I had reservations about, that is staying on topic, and responding to someone else.

It was an A and B conversation, you should C your way out of it.

 

[RayClay]

What is funny?

Not everything can be quantified.

 

[Brady6]

Not everything can be quantified.

Bethel, Lane, and Easley are all considered top special teams players. Bethel expecially he was an All-Pro in 2013.

 

[RayClay]

Bethel, Lane, and Easley are all considered top special teams players. Bethel expecially he was an All-Pro in 2013.

How long has Bethel been Captain of their special teams?

 

[primetime]

Not everything can be quantified.

PFF isn't even quantification. That's the problem with it. Using numbers makes readers think that it's based on quantitative analysis - a statistical model - but it's not. Football Outsiders stats like DVOA are based on a model. You can quibble with the mathematical model but not with what goes into the model, because its all transparent. In talking abiut analysis, "quantitative" means based on probabilistic statistical models, it doesn't mean just using numbers.

PFF is a bunch of people watching football very closely and awarding arbitrary grade point averages to players based on subjective observations that are probably derived from a standardized grading rubric. Its qualitative analysis. The value of PFF is in observations about players no one watches - gunners, guards, defensive tackles - and in analyses that are not subject to ESPN pundit narrative analysis. Unfortunately, that value is very much undermined by the insistence on portraying these observations as numbers in order to portray themselves as sabermetricians - objective statistical scientists. Which they're not.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is one of the most overused assertions on this board, it is completely flawed it implies you have no choice but to resign the player. We opted not to pay many key players and instead drafted replacement in advance of their contracts expiring. Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Carter, Anderson, Spikes, and others have all been permitted to walk and replaced with a younger less expensive player, are you suggesting that we could not do the same thing with our gunner?

I am not saying we should have, I am just saying we could have so comparing the contract options is valid.

No. What is completely flawed is your attempts at logic. You bounce from one stratagem to another in feeble attempts to make your case seem like it's valid and this is just another example.

The Pats didn't draft anyone in advance of letting Carter and Anderson go. They were one year rentals, on the team in 2011 and gone in 2012.
The Pats didn't draft anyone to replace Spikes either. Unless your making the erroneous claim that Collins is going to replace Spikes.

The Pats let Green-Ellis go before they drafted Ridley as well.

The only one you could say that they drafted someone in advance (out of the players you mentioned) is Woodhead.

Now, there have been players whom the Patriots have drafted in advance of letting another go, but those have typically had issues. The Pats drafted Koppen in advance of letting Woody go. But Woody had issues with being a center and his lack of shotgun snapping ability. Others they have drafted in advance of the player retiring. Such as when they drafted Light to replace Armstrong and then Solder to replace Light.

This idea that the Pats have opted not to pay many key players is flawed beyond belief. You're reaching for straws and coming up empty..

 

[DaBruinz]

We are talking about Slater and his future. Primetime made a comment that I want everyone to make next to nothing, I said that is not the case and told him the two contracts I had reservations about, that is staying on topic, and responding to someone else.

It was an A and B conversation, you should C your way out of it.

The conversation was whether or not Slater would be on the team this year. YOU are the one who took it on the tangent of whether they'd pay him in the future. Per usual, you can't even follow the conversation properly. It's no wonder you fail at your arguments all the time.

 

[DaBruinz]

The only thing I failed at is remembering why I had you on my ignore list, you are incapable of any type of discussion without becoming a completely prick for no reason. Back to ignore you go!

Wrong again, junior. You really should grow up and learn that if you are going to have an intelligent conversation with the people on this board, you shouldn't post absolute nonsense the way you do. And you do it on a regular basis.

Everything you've posted in your flailing attempts to prove your point has been wrong. And when challenged, you throw your little hissy fit like you just did.

 

[PatsBoy12]

This is one where I can see the merit of those saying he's an absolute lock. Funny thing, I can also see the merit of those saying he's a near lock but not quite 100 percent. I say he's on for sure, though. I just can't imagine someone so valuable being cut, no matter how many other WR's the Pats keep on the final roster. As crazy as it might sound, I see BB reluctantly dropping a DT before seeing him let go of Slater. BB values ST's more than most.

 

[RayClay]

PFF isn't even quantification. That's the problem with it. Using numbers makes readers think that it's based on quantitative analysis - a statistical model - but it's not. Football Outsiders stats like DVOA are based on a model. You can quibble with the mathematical model but not with what goes into the model, because its all transparent. In talking abiut analysis, "quantitative" means based on probabilistic statistical models, it doesn't mean just using numbers.

PFF is a bunch of people watching football very closely and awarding arbitrary grade point averages to players based on subjective observations that are probably derived from a standardized grading rubric. Its qualitative analysis. The value of PFF is in observations about players no one watches - gunners, guards, defensive tackles - and in analyses that are not subject to ESPN pundit narrative analysis. Unfortunately, that value is very much undermined by the insistence on portraying these observations as numbers in order to portray themselves as sabermetricians - objective statistical scientists. Which they're not.

Excellent post. They either come up with some numbers to compare players who's roles are not the same, or they create a category based on some subjective measure they invented, then try to count instances of their own invented statistic, as if that measures who is or isn't a good lineman.

Football is a situational game, it is not a pitcher throwing to a hitter hitting to a fielder. As i say, even if we aren't talking about a bunch of English ninnies looking at a sport they don't understand, trying to turn it into numbers. Teams can march up and down the field, compiling yardage, yet not getting into the end zone when they need to. We can average a skill players yardage, yet not explain why one contributes to first downs and TDs, while another just compiles stats, but doesn't make the big plays.