Free Agent Signings around the League

[Rob0729]

I think it's very difficult to compare defenses from different generations, particularly with the more pass-oriented league and rules favoring the offenses. The 3 best defenses I've ever seen were the '76 Steelers, '86 Bears and 2000 Ravens, all of which preceded those eras. The Steelers and Bears didn't have to deal with the salary cap and free agency in terms of maintaining player continuity across years. They were allowed to get away with things that wouldn't fly today.

I think that this Seattle defense and the 2008 Steelers' defense are the best defenses I've seen since the Ravens in 2000, and belong in the discussion of legitimate "great" defenses. That's enough for me. It will be interesting to see if the Seahawks can keep enough of a nucleus together to put together a multi-year run, which would only increase the rarity of what they have achieved.

Part of the reason why I say there will never be a defense like the 85 Bears or 00 Ravens ever again is because of the differences in eras and the rules are stacked against defenses now. If this Seahawks' defense was playing by the rules of 1985, they might even be better than the 1985 Bears (I tend to really doubt it, but no one really will ever know.

 

[manxman2601]

Didn't watch the Bears in the Superbowl against the Pats?

I'm not sure the Patriots offense of Tony Eason and Craig James quite stacks up up against the Broncos offense we saw last year. That Bears defense was great but then so was last years Seahawks defense.

Personally don't care who was better, they were both great to watch.

 

[JackBauer]

Damn. We need talented youth on the DL, yet Bill lets another get away while Wilfork eats up
our remianing cap space, literally. Cut this guy already for feck's sake.

Oh no, whatever will we do without his 13 tackles and 1 sack per season?? Heaven help us!

 

[Deus Irae]

Just saw the stuff comparing the Seahawks to the Bears. Sorry, but I can't buy it. I wish I could. I'd love to have a legit 1 v. 1a battle when talking about "best defense ever!".

The Bears held 10 of 16 opponents to 10 points or fewer in the regular season. They then allowed 10 points, combined, in 3 playoff games.

Yeah, Marino got them for 38 in the regular season, but Luck got the Seahawks for 34 in the regular season, which is something people forget about last year when they overhype the Seahawks in wake of the SB win.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yeah, Marino got them for 38 in the regular season, but Manning got the Seahawks for 34 in the regular season, which is something people forget about last year when they overhype the Seahawks in wake of the SB win.

I think you mean Andrew Luck.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think you mean Andrew Luck.

I did mean Luck, thanks. I fixed it.


Much obliged

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Reported the jets had interest as well. So good there!

 

[Rob0729]

Not really a signing, but not worth its own thread:

#Dolphins reportedly trying to trade Mike Wallace, but his $15m salary in 2014 is fully guaranteed. Good luck with that

https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/448855005077188608

If he was willing to take about a $12 million pay cut this year, I would say the Pats should try to float a fourth for the guy. I am not a big fan of the guy, but he would be a good pick up if he was making about a quarter of what he is making this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Not really a signing, but not worth its own thread:

https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/448855005077188608

If he was willing to take about a $12 million pay cut this year, I would say the Pats should try to float a fourth for the guy. I am not a big fan of the guy, but he would be a good pick up if he was making about a quarter of what he is making this year.

Report: Dolphins still trying to trade Mike Wallace | ProFootballTalk

Wallace is a selfish, money-oriented player who's only real talent is that he can run fast. Why on earth would we want him on the Pats?

 

[Rob0729]

Just saw the stuff comparing the Seahawks to the Bears. Sorry, but I can't buy it. I wish I could. I'd love to have a legit 1 v. 1a battle when talking about "best defense ever!".

The Bears held 10 of 16 opponents to 10 points or fewer in the regular season. They then allowed 10 points, combined, in 3 playoff games.

Yeah, Marino got them for 38 in the regular season, but Luck got the Seahawks for 34 in the regular season, which is something people forget about last year when they overhype the Seahawks in wake of the SB win.

We don't agree on much these days, but we do agree with the overhyping of the Seahawks' defense. They aren't even close to the dominance of the 85 Bears defense.

In fairness to them, other than the 76 Steelers, I don't think anyone is. Even the 00 Ravens, they are not that good.

 

[Rob0729]

Report: Dolphins still trying to trade Mike Wallace | ProFootballTalk

Wallace is a selfish, money-oriented player who's only real talent is that he can run fast. Why on earth would we want him on the Pats?

We wouldn't except on a value deal which he would never take a pay cut for.

 

[Deus Irae]

Report: Dolphins still trying to trade Mike Wallace | ProFootballTalk

Wallace is a selfish, money-oriented player who's only real talent is that he can run fast. Why on earth would we want him on the Pats?

Because he'd immediately be the team's best wide receiver, and would give the team the type of WR it's been lacking since 2010?

 

[mayoclinic]

Because he'd immediately be the team's best wide receiver, and would give the team the type of WR it's been lacking since 2010?

When they traded away their last selfish WR.

Perfect plan. Right up there with "sign Incognito".

 

[Deus Irae]

When they traded away their last selfish WR.

Perfect plan. Right up there with "sign Incognito".

They traded Moss because his on-field play had declined markedly. Last season Wallace caught 73 passes in an offense that had no offensive line, didn't draw up plays for him, and had a QB who was completely out of sync when it came to throwing deep to him. He sure as hell didn't accomplish that just because of running fast on go routes.

I'm not saying that the Patriots should run out and make this move. I'm answering the question of why they would. They'd make it because Wallace can play and can fill a needed role.


And, whether people care to admit it or not, Incognito would be an upgrade for the IOL, and had the backing of his teammates. I don't expect the Patriots to sign him, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change my evaluation of his play in comparison to Connolly-Wendell.

 

[strngplyr]

They traded Moss because his on-field play had declined markedly. Last season Wallace caught 73 passes in an offense that had no offensive line, didn't draw up plays for him, and had a QB who was completely out of sync when it came to throwing deep to him. He sure as hell didn't accomplish that just because of running fast on go routes.

I'm not saying that the Patriots should run out and make this move. I'm answering the question of why they would. They'd make it because Wallace can play and can fill a needed role.


And, whether people care to admit it or not, Incognito would be an upgrade for the IOL, and had the backing of his teammates.

Upgrade yes, just not the specific one we want.

Edit: About Incognito

Completely agree on Wallace. Needed role, underrated season in 2013, not willing to trade for him and his contract.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

When they traded away their last selfish WR.

Perfect plan. Right up there with "sign Incognito".

It's always a great idea when it works.

If they signed Incognito and he played well, no incidents...people would say how smart and results oriented the FO is.

Winning/being right cures everything. I don't think it's ever been a risk averse formula. It's just weighing risk vs reward.

Moss, Dillon, Hayneworth, Ocho, AH,( character, not the extent it turned out but still) Gronk(NCAA injuries), Mark Harrison(character), Mallett(character), Dennard(character), Talib(character)....

Seriously the list is crazy long that's just a few recent names. They have taken risk on innumerable players from injury riddled pasts, to off field infractions, to me 1st attitudes. I really don't think selfish, thugs, punks or whatever sanctimonious adjectives people here come up with to describe these athletes matters in the equation ultimately. For future compensation, sure. How can they help the team? That's the question I would hope is being asked.

Can't question that Mike Wallace helps this team. I'm not a huge fan of his game. I would prefer Desean if the price is gonna be that high,which I think the FO isn't gonna want anyway. But would he be the best WR here, yes. That's the problem though isn't it?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Ok, so I can't even state my case?

I invited you to do just that.

2013 Seahawks: 14.4 ppg (1st), 273.6ypg (1st)
2013 Bears: 12.4 ppg (1st), 258.5ypg (1st)

Thank you for backing up my assertion with more facts, but it was unnecessary.

2013 Seahawks: 63.4 opposing passer rating, in the pass happy fantasy football goodell era where the average qbr is 88!

Is that what the kids are calling it these days? It should be called the "turn around and raise your hands to the ref and plead for a flag every time you don't actually catch the ball" era. But I digress.

The 85 Bears played in a time when the average offense scored 2-4ppg less and quarterbacks had qbrs 8-10 points less. The #1 offense in the NFL tore apart the 85 Bears in the regular season (the fish). The Seahawks destroyed the Broncos with the best superbowl performance of all time.

I'm sure you can come up with plenty of irrelevent stats why it was more impressive than the 49ers 45 point blowout over Den. It's been less than 2 months since that game was played. The NFL is how old? Let's just see if it stands the test of time for awile before we annoint anything as the GOAT. Ease up there Johnny last week.

To say they "aren't even close" is just disingenuous. When you factor in the eras they played in, they are easily on par with each other.

I wouldn't say it's "disingenuous", but comparing the 2 is not a huge stretch. The gap is not as wide as my statement indicates. I'll give you that.

Also, the 2008 Steelers? Please. The defense that let Kurt Warner throw 400 yards on them and Matt Cassel would of had a solid day if Moss didn't have stone hands in the regular season game.

I was trying to keep that year a repressed memory. 11-5 and miss the playoffs while the 8-8 Cha......nevermind, can't go on, still pissed.

 

[patfanken]

Because he'd immediately be the team's best wide receiver, and would give the team the type of WR it's been lacking since 2010?

Your post got me thinking about the issue of having that WR whose speed "stretches the field".

You are right in that we don't have a player with that kind of label....yet. Dobson or Boyce COULD eventually be that kind of player. However that's not point I want to bring out. The question I really want to ask is, do we really NEED that kind of player on this team to be a great offense????

We certainly didn't have one in 2011 and 2012 when we were the best passing offense in the league. Last season, IIRC, we didn't have much trouble getting WR's open deep down the field at least a couple of time a game. (Completing those passes was another story) Denver had the best passing game in league HISTORY, and they rarely used DThomas as a deep threat

Personally I think the need to "stretch the field" is way over rated. Its something that's good to have, no doubt, but IMHO its a luxury, and certainly not one that you'd want to pay the likes of Mike Wallace or DJackson, over $10MM/yr for the privilege of having that "luxury" Every team has fast guys at WR, even the Pats They also have ways to get those guys open deep. Like I said, we saw guys open deep time and time again. We just didn't hit many of them (a topic for another discussion)

 

[Froob]

When they traded away their last selfish WR.

Perfect plan. Right up there with "sign Incognito".

Incognito situation is pretty complicated. I think he got screwed by Martin because he was an easy guy to scapegoat because people would believe it because of incognito's past. He could be a pretty nice upgrade if he can behave. He's out of the same mold as Mankins. Would love to have another tough son of a ***** on that line. A lot of it depends on what you believe happened and didn't happen with Incognito's story. It's possible he did get his **** together in Miami and would have been fine if Martin didn't screw him(if Martin was in the wrong that is).

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Mike Wallace...Mr. 1 play? LOL