Does the 2017 free agent class need to be reevaluated?

[PatsBoy12]

You said "The only thing Kuechly does better than Collins is cover in the passing game".

And I believe that. The term "best" is often subjective anyway. But I do believe the only advantage L.K. has over Collins is his coverage ability. Collins is still not the best in man. He's gotten evidently better in zone. I don't think there is anything else that he can do that Collins cannot. I think we've seen all of L.K. I don't think we've seen all of Collins yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

And I believe that. The term "best" is often subjective anyway. But I do believe the only advantage L.K. has over Collins is his coverage ability. I don't think there is anything else that he can do that Collins cannot.

Kuechly is a better tackler, and a better run defender, than Collins.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Kuechly is a better tackler, and a better run defender, than Collins.

Maybe . . . and I do mean maybe. The margin there is as slim as it gets. I will say L.K. is definitely much better at getting off blocks than Collins.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They tried. BB personally called him with an offer and the word was BB even briefly talked to him when he was cleaning out his locker right after the season. BB definitely wanted him. He chose to sign with the Bears.

Yep. Actually I think BB is a pretty good closer on these types on things but CHI was 2/10m w/ $5m guarantee and as I understand it Pats were 3/12 w/ less guarantee. It is what it is.

 

[mgteich]

First, the patriots almost always offer what a player is worth to the team.

The team cannot sign a player just because they want the player, not without overpaying.

==================
DURING THE SEASON
Look for Belichick to extend additional players, as he did with Freeney and Ninkovich.

Develin, Cannon and Long seem to be likely candidates.

Ryan and Harmon are obvious choices, but they will likely want to wait and test free agency.
==================
OFFSEASON

We have lots of cap money. We saw what Belichick did this off-season with almost nothing. Frankly, I don't know who of our own players will be the best values at the end of the season. It seems unlikely that ALL our players be overpaid by other teams. However, the defense is under severe pressure.

OFFENSE
BENNETT will be back, count on it. He will be franchised if necessary, but it won't be. Belichick will make him a fine offer. He and Gronk will be play together for awhile.
And we'll be signing a WR, RB and OT (likely Cannon).

For me, the offense has almost no issues, other than the elephant in the room (choosing whether to extend Garappolo).

DEFENSE
There are lots of players who will be free agents, and lots of players from other teams who will be free agents. We have lots of key players: Long, Sheard, Branch, Collins, Hightower, Ryan and Harmon. IMHO, a couple of these will be extended during the season.

 

[patfanken]

Interesting topic that will see several MORE similar threads as the year goes on, and infinitely more after the season is over. .

1. Collins - Collins is a blue chip athlete who is developing into a "special" player and might be the top FA prospect in this year's FA class. Not only is he good, he's dependable. This issue here isn't can the Pats pay him. Miguel outlined a potential contract that would be VERY competitive top of market type deal that would keep them from retaining most of their other FA's. The biggest issue with Collins is, does he WANT to stay here. Lets face it, living in Foxboro for more than half the year isn't for everyone. IIRC, there have been reports that Collins might want to go back to the south. If that's so, then like with Revis who wanted to be in NYC, no amount of money is going to get him to stay, UNLESS we seriously overpay and we know that that's isn't happening.

2. Hightower - I don't know how much injuries will be a big factor with the Pats since Hightower has shown tremendous toughness in playing through injuries. Like Mayo, Danta is one of BB's favorite and the QB of the defense. They will be very loathe to let him go. Again Miguel showed us a very realistic, top of the market deal that will allow us to keep him. More importantly, I think he WANTS to be here.

3. Logan Ryan, has improved every year he's been here and has developed into a very good NFL CB. Not a "shut down" guy, but very good and just as important, dependable. I think we will be able to keep IF Collins decides to leave because then there will be enough space to pay him. Otherwise, I think he's the good player that we will have to let go.

4. Malcolm Butler - His situation is kind of unfortunate. He's not going to get paid what he's worth. The Pats will give him a first round tender, which will give him a big pay raise, but not the one he'd get if he were a UFA. I don't think anyone will want to pay him as a top 15 CB AND give up a first round draft pick, so Malcolm will be with us next year.

5. JSheard - I don't think he's going to put up the kind of numbers that get you a top pass rusher's deal. It's just so hard to do in this system. But he's already the 4th highest cap # on the team at $6.8MM and I don't think the Pats will want to go to something that averages $8MM or more. Especially when Flowers is beginning (dare I say it) to flower. If stays, it will have to be on a deal that keeps him in the $7MM range for 2-3 years.

6. Long - I think he's come home. The reality is that regardless of what kind of year he has here, he is STILL going to be a 32 year old DE with about 8 sacks in his last season. That would be a great job for us, but are other GM's going to want to pay more than $3MM to lure him away from the best football experience he's ever had.

7. LBG - He's in a similar situation to Long. Next year he is going to be a 30 year old RB going into his 9th year of wear and tear. He will have a fine and productive year with us, but we aren't going to have to offer much of a raise to him (if any) to get him into camp again and see if he can do it again. He'll be back.

8. Bennett - I'm afraid Marty is going to be just a beautiful stranger passing through. He's a $5MM cap hit now, and would likely be in the $7-8MM range on the open market. UNLESS, he takes the $5-6MM deal to stay here for the "off the field benefits" he could get for his media projects.

Another thought is that the Pats might be willing to pay BOTH Gronk and Bennett the top of the TE market contracts. There are several teams that pay 2 WR's big money and THEIR big money is bigger than TE's (though given that TE's do so much more it makes no sense). It might make sense given they pay their WR's relatively short money.

In the end I think Collins will take the money and go where he is more comfortable, THEN we'll see if BB can make Mingo into a "Collins-lite" literally. He has all the athletic abilities of Collins minus about 30lbs of weight and strength. If it works out the defense will be weaker, of course, but to what degree will depend on how good Mingo turns out to be

 

[mgteich]

[QUOTE="patfanken, post: 4764651, member: 3697"
In the end I think Collins will take the money and go where he is more comfortable, THEN we'll see if BB can make Mingo into a "Collins-lite" literally. He has all the athletic abilities of Collins minus about 30lbs of weight and strength. If it works out the defense will be weaker, of course, but to what degree will depend on how good Mingo turns out to be[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I would note that Mingo is also a free agent.

 

[patfanken]

[QUOTE="patfanken, post: 4764651, member: 3697"
In the end I think Collins will take the money and go where he is more comfortable, THEN we'll see if BB can make Mingo into a "Collins-lite" literally. He has all the athletic abilities of Collins minus about 30lbs of weight and strength. If it works out the defense will be weaker, of course, but to what degree will depend on how good Mingo turns out to be

I agree.

I would note that Mingo is also a free agent.[/QUOTE] If I were Mingo, I'd take a short term, 2 year contract short money contract with lots of incentives, and hope Matty P can transform me into a very good player, like so many here, and THEN I can get a crack at a big money contract.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I agree.

I would note that Mingo is also a free agent.

If I were Mingo, I'd take a short term, 2 year contract short money contract with lots of incentives, and hope Matty P can transform me into a very good player, like so many here, and THEN I can get a crack at a big money contract.[/QUOTE]

One thing is, Belichick has shown he is very liberal in applying the franchise tag. If (and it's a huge if) he can get Hightower resigned before FA begins, I can easily see him franchising Collins. Belichick loves his linebackers and I don't think he'll let Collins go until he absolutely has to. The tag will probably be in the neighborhood of $15M, but I think he'd be willing to do it for that position.

 

[IllegalContact]

Kuechly is the best in the NFL. Collins may not even be the best on his own team.

You said "The only thing Kuechly does better than Collins is cover in the passing game".

Considering they play different positions, arguing the 2 is nonsense

Kuechly is certainly the most visible.....in large part to the awesome play of Kawann Short and Star Lotulelei

Sounds like you'd prefer Collins elsewhere and will welcome the Jonathan Freeny era with open arms

 

[IllegalContact]

If I were Mingo, I'd take a short term, 2 year contract short money contract with lots of incentives, and hope Matty P can transform me into a very good player, like so many here, and THEN I can get a crack at a big money contract.

he would only do that on a short term 1 year deal.....I get a laugh out of some of you

 

[50-yard-line]

I expect them to evaluate Hightower (injuries) and then try to sign him to decent money. I think he stays.

Franchise Collins if they can't work out a deal.

Slap a 1st round tender on Butler if he does well.

Extend Marty Bennett. He loves it here, and putting him with Gronk is the biggest mismatch this team can make, period.

Amendola might be gone. Vollmer is probably done with the Pats, maybe period.

Re-sign Branch - he's not expensive.

Not sure about Harmon and Ryan. I don't think they'll get s much as people think,

Remember, there were extenuating circumstances to top FAs last year because of cap spending shortfalls that had to be made up or lost (if I understand that correctly), so all teams are up near the cap now.

In Bill I trust.

 

[TBR]

I always thought Bennett would just be a 1 year rental. But he's making it really difficult to view him that way now.

Hightower and Collins are the two major must-keeps.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

he would only do that on a short term 1 year deal.....I get a laugh out of some of you

I get a laugh out of people who respond to the wrong poster.

 

[IllegalContact]

I get a laugh out of people who respond to the wrong poster.

 

[patsfan13]

Kuechly is the best in the NFL. Collins may not even be the best on his own team.

They play different position in very different D's and are asked to do different things, apples and avocados.

 

[Deus Irae]

They play different position in very different D's and are asked to do different things, apples and avocados.

1.) Not really.
2.) I didn't initiate the comparisons.

 

[mihap]

Hightower and Bennett

These two were my top priority in preseason and i would add Develin if they dont have baby Gronk in plan for next year. If they win SB Sheard and Cannon will be overpriced so goodbye fellas. I dont know about Collins, in some games he is pro bowler in some like AFC against Denver and SB against Seattle some big plays left on the field.

 

[IllegalContact]

1.) Not really.
2.) I didn't initiate the comparisons.

1) yes really
2) but you dove right in anyway

 

[supafly]

Even if BB wanted to keep JG as the GOAT's successor and was willing to overpay to keep him-there is NO chance JG goes along with it. Think about it-Brady will likely play thru 2019-do you seriously think JG is going to be willing to sit for 3 MORE years after this one? When he will have multiple opportunities to start elsewhere? no freaking way. Thats 6 years of his career. Doesnt matter how great a franchise or coach is, he isnt hanging around for 3 more years. Either Jacoby or someone not currently in the NFL will be the next starting qb.

Well, he doesn't really have a choice in the matter until the 2018 season as he is under contract through the end of 2017.

If the money is right and there's a mutual understanding that he's going to take over after the '18 season (this year plus two more full seasons for Brady seems reasonable), he'd only be waiting one additional season.

Is it realistically going to happen? Probably not, but if Belichick feels that he has something here, the possibility exists that he could choose to overpay at the QB position for one year, sure. He has time and cap space to prepare.