Amendola?

[Brady6]

This is an assinine post. "If you take away the plays he got wide open on" is just ridiculous. I know you hate the guy, but come on.

AJ I don't hate people I don't know and I don't know Danny Amendola, sorry to disappoint.

As for the rest I didn't say to remove them from his stat sheet, I only pointed out what he was if not for 2 plays in which he benefited greatly from blown coverage by the Steelers.

 

[Brady6]

2010 was Welker worst statistical season as a Patriot. Thank you for proving my point.

Hernandez was one of the most dynamic players in the league, so because of his size and speed had to be accounted for. Why do you think the FO paid him and not Welker?

Gronk is always open.... who you fooling?

Moss in Oakland was still one of the best receivers to play the game, and got a second life, coming here, playing with Brady. Please tell me what was Welker in Miami again?

Welker in Miami was a guy that went from:

Year 1 – 29 receptions and 434 receiving yards
Year 2 – 67 receptions and 687 receiving yards

So he more than doubled his reception total from year 1 to year 2 so the fact he improved even more in season 3 is not that shocking to me, the question is has Amendola improved year over year since season 2?

As far as 2010 being his worst season that would have a lot to do with his returning from a major knee injury, if you look at his season splits he got much better as the season progressed:

September – 18 receptions and 147 receiving yards
October – 22 receptions and 172 receiving yards
November – 25 receptions and 273 receiving yards
December – 21 receptions and 256 receiving yards

Gronkowski is not always open, he always has a matchup advantage but without Welker he is seeing a lot more double and triple teams which is impacting his productivity – this season Gronkowski has a 62.5% catch ratio, coming into this season Gronkowski had a 71.3% catch ratio. Gronkowski is still a great player and outside of Calvin Johnson Jr. probably the toughest matchup in the NFL but he certainly benefited from having Welker commanding coverage in prior years that you are not seeing Amendola or Edelman commanding. If you take a look back over the years that Welker was here he drew matchups with players like Revis and Sherman do you recall seeing the other teams #1 CB covering Amendola this season? I don’t.

 

[AzorianPats]

Welker in Miami was a guy that went from:

Year 1 – 29 receptions and 434 receiving yards
Year 2 – 67 receptions and 687 receiving yards

So he more than doubled his reception total from year 1 to year 2 so the fact he improved even more in season 3 is not that shocking to me, the question is has Amendola improved year over year since season 2?

As far as 2010 being his worst season that would have a lot to do with his returning from a major knee injury, if you look at his season splits he got much better as the season progressed:

September – 18 receptions and 147 receiving yards
October – 22 receptions and 172 receiving yards
November – 25 receptions and 273 receiving yards
December – 21 receptions and 256 receiving yards

Gronkowski is not always open, he always has a matchup advantage but without Welker he is seeing a lot more double and triple teams which is impacting his productivity – this season Gronkowski has a 62.5% catch ratio, coming into this season Gronkowski had a 71.3% catch ratio. Gronkowski is still a great player and outside of Calvin Johnson Jr. probably the toughest matchup in the NFL but he certainly benefited from having Welker commanding coverage in prior years that you are not seeing Amendola or Edelman commanding. If you take a look back over the years that Welker was here he drew matchups with players like Revis and Sherman do you recall seeing the other teams #1 CB covering Amendola this season? I don’t.

So we can use the injury excuse for Welker, but not Amendola?

Gronkowski making just as much plays this year, as he in years past. If anything he's showing why he's the best non QB offensive player in the NFL, by showing his blocking and receiving skills.

#1 corners never cover slot guys for a full game. Your really throwing **** on the wall just seeing what sticks now.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Might I remind everyone that Welker signed for the same money he was offered here except for the incentives which offered 4 million more ... he chose not to sign for that ... capish???

He can come back here in 2015 if he misses us.

 

[scout]

Which player would you rather have had last night, Amendola or Welker?

 

[Brady6]

So we can use the injury excuse for Welker, but not Amendola?

Gronkowski making just as much plays this year, as he in years past. If anything he's showing why he's the best non QB offensive player in the NFL, by showing his blocking and receiving skills.

#1 corners never cover slot guys for a full game. Your really throwing **** on the wall just seeing what sticks now.

Excuse, no I am not making an excuse I am saying Welker improved as the season progressed in 2010 and was playing his best football at the end of the year, Amendola has not done that he is the same subpar player he has been since he entered the league almost 5 seasons ago. We can sit and here and go back and forth all night if you’d like but it doesn’t change what Amendola is and that is a player in his 5th season who is lacks durability and is only good for less than a handful of good games person season. I base my opinion on Amendola playing in 49 games in his career and having 100 or more yards in just 4 of those games, Welker had 5 games last season and 8 games in 2011 with a 100 or more yards. You can base your opinion on your hopes but hope isn’t a strategy in my world so I will go with the past 5 years.

I am not throwing anything against the wall I can just send you a link to any stats website on the web and it proves that your wrong and Amendola is an average receiver at best actually I would consider a receiver with a 9.1 yard per reception average to be pretty crappy to be honest but for arguments sake we will call him average. You are throwing hopes, dreams, and what could be up against the wall seeing what sticks, the fact is Amendola has been in the league for over 4 season and has NEVER been half the player that Welker has been so posters like you suggesting he is going to be as good as good as Welker are completely out of your minds in my opinion and you can say I am wrong and I will just take a look at his 3 catch 17 receiving yard performance on Sunday and know you’re grasping at straws.

I am done with this conversation with you, I don’t want to talk about what Amendola could be if he was healthy or when he know the offense, its like talking about what type of car I would drive or house I would own if I ever won Powerball – the odds are against it ever happening.

No hard feelings man but I just don’t agree with you on this Danny has been a disappointment any time players have articles in the media asking the question should they be cut it is clear that they’re not performing well and the people defending the player are not looking at the situation rationally or they have a personal bias. Y! SPORTS

He also has a Danny Amendola Sucks forum: Danny Amendola Sucks Forum

Has decision to sign Danny Amendola already been proven wrong for Patriots? - Adam Kaufman - Boston.com Sports
Patriots Are on Losing End of Welker for Amendola Swap | BostInno

Worst free agent signing — Ed Reed, S, Texans. Free agency once again proved to be fool’s gold for most players and teams, but no one has been a bigger bust than Reed, who signed for three years and $15 million but has just 14 tackles and no impact plays in five games. Other candidates: Steven Jackson, Dwayne Bowe, Mike Wallace, Danny Amendola, Andy Levitre, Cliff Avril, Elvis Dumervil, Paul Kruger, William Moore, Greg Jennings.

NFL midseason awards - Sports - The Boston Globe

 

[Brady6]

Which player would you rather have had last night, Amendola or Welker?

Edelman - I don't want Welker back I just don't think the signing of Amendola was a good one and if I had to decided between Amendola or Edelman I would take Edelman any day that ends with Y.

 

[coolguy]

But couldn't you make the argument amendola has taken some attention of edelman and they both benefit when played together?

But don't get it twisted, thompkins is the true welker successor here in new england.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

But couldn't you make the argument amendola has taken some attention of edelman and they both benefit when played together?

But don't get it twisted, thompkins is the true welker successor here in new england.

KT and AD. But the whole skills position that catches Brady's passes should thank us for going to amendola and not welker. It's because of getting rid of the security blanket, the open WR/TE/RB will get the ball.

 

[Brady6]

But couldn't you make the argument amendola has taken some attention of edelman and they both benefit when played together?

But don't get it twisted, thompkins is the true welker successor here in new england.

Edelman has performed best in game that Amendola missed. With the exception of Sunday of course.

 

[supafly]

Personally I am not attempting to assess him after just six games I am assessing him as a player who is in his 5th NFL season and close to 30 years old.

As of two or three weeks ago, he was 27. I think we're skewing things a bit by claiming that he's "close to 30 years old." I think we have another couple of seasons before we get to that point, and that would take us through 2014 and 2015.

If we need to worry about him being on the wrong side of 30 in 2016 then we can come to that bridge and deal with it then. Technically, he'd be 30 late in the 2015 season, but one would think that he'd be able to muddle through the stretch run around Thanksgiving through the final 6-7 games or so

It's possible that they could ask him to take a pay cut or move on from him once the contract settles and we're through those first 2 years with the dead cap hit money.

When I assess Amendola over a period of 4.68 seasons I see a player that does not merit being paid the 26th most annually of any wide receiver in the NFL.

And I would find that to be a very reasonable thought and concern.

As I mentioned, it's probably best to re-visit the topic during the offseason at the earliest--even if it won't make any difference. They are basically stuck with him through 2014 even if they wanted to give up on him after just one season.

I think if push came to shove and this kind of production continued through next season, he'd likely have enough common sense to realize that no one is going to pay him that kind of money, so he'd have to think long and hard about taking a pay cut. The good news is that his 3.5 million dollar cap hit this year and 4.7 million next year in 2014 really isn't ridiculous enough to warrant that much of a concern for awhile yet.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Brady6, you are an enthusiastic and prolific poster, and I often agree with things you say. You make a lot of good points in this thread, but you bury them under unnecessary nonsense.

Among the claims:

--Claim that Danny Amendola is popular here because he is from here. He is from Texas and went to college in Texas and then played in Missouri before moving to Massachusetts for work. Google exists. It's easy to find such facts. If you can find everyone's catch percentages you can find where someone is from.

--Referencing someone having a "... sucks" forum. It's true that he has such a forum, but those forums are garbage that something called talk-sports.net uses to try and generate traffic. Type in the name of any player in the NFL and then write "sucks." Talk-sports.net has one for Armond Armstead, and one for Will Svitek. Will Svitek sucks! I saw it on the internet!

--Claim that Wes Welker joined the Patriots after 2 seasons in the NFL, with a steady improvement rate, while Amendola spent 4 years middling with the Rams. Welker played 3 seasons (with a steady improvement rate) before joining the NEP, and Amendola was instantly one of the best players on the Rams as a rookie.

--Cherry picking of stats is annoying, especially when they are used without context. Also, some of the stats in question could have their relevancy questioned.

It was posited that last season's 58 catch, 700 yard, 1 touchdown performance was "tremendous." Kendall Wright's 65-763-2 TD season was also deemed "a tremendous performance." Danny Amendola should put up numbers right around this, while missing significant portions of the season and playing with his groin ripped off. I believe this was during some misguided attempt to downplay Amendola's performance in St Louis by using raw statistics, with no mind paid to his role on the team.

It was also during this portion of the thread that you said that Sam Bradford was "actually pretty good," or something of the sort. That is not true. Sam Bradford is bad.

--The best one, by far, is refuting the accusation of a straw man argument by demonstrating that you are not familiar with the concept of a straw man argument.


I do not aim to make you feel bad, or to start a flame war with you, and I know that you will not engage me in one as you are a very respectful poster. I appreciate your insights and enthusiasm. I am merely hoping to point out that playing sloppy/loose with the facts when they don't fit your argument while being razor sharp on the ones that do does not reflect well. You are an intelligent poster and don't need to do anything other than make your point.

As for the argument itself: Amendola certainly hasn't delivered, to this point, the production that could be reasonably expected entering the season. But what I really cannot understand is the ignoring of the groin injury, and the comparisons to other players who are dealing with injuries yet thriving. Those injuries are different, and surely playing with your groin ripped off will slow you down.

As countless others have said, Amendola will be with the team next season, and hopefully his groin will be better. Next year is the first time we can safely start calling him a bust, in my opinion. And I hope it never happens!

 

[supafly]

^ ^ ^

Lots of very good points, and the manner in which you presented them was excellent. Well done, Hercules Rockefeller.

As far as Brady6 goes, I definitely agree that he often presents himself in a very respectful manner, and does not wish to engage in pissing matches too often. Those are good traits to have.

Even though I tend to disagree with him regarding Amendola being a bust already, I do respect the topic itself, and have absolutely no problem with posing the question of whether he's "worth it." I think we can re-visit the question in about a year or so and have a much better answer and bigger sample size to try and judge this fairly.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

With due respect Brady6, as this point in his brief Patriot career the only time 'bust' should be used in a sentence with Danny Amendola is if you are describing his girlfriend. IMHO calling or implying DA a bust after 11 games and what his stats are (so far) is a very unfair characterization. He has played a grand total of 7 games with the Patriots, most of them under the specter of a pretty severe injury, and has put up numbers that are far from awful. Extrapolating his current 2013 stats to 16 games, he would end up with roughly 70+ catches and 800+ yards. Is that a performance fairly characterized as a "bust"?

Consider this: I think some would argue that we lose the season opener against the Bills if DA is not in that game. His 10 receptions, 104 yards, including a critical near game-deciding catch in tight coverage taking a sizable hit was indispensable to gain a win. Damn, I would think that one gutsy performance alone gives him some slack considering he was already injured to begin the game, and it is believed his injury became acute and he still delivered that critical final catch, putting it on the line and delivered with his groin detached from his body (something just sounds wrong about that sentence).
Yep, he missed 4 games then came back and didn't look very good in the next 3 games (still hampered by his injury IMHO). But in his next 3 games against good competition (Den, Car, Pitt), he had 13 catches on 17 targets for 184 yards (though this is skewed some by one big 55 yard catch). Not a breakout, 'DA is the man!' performance for sure, but certainly not worthy of calling the guy a bum.

Lastly, and maybe the most important thing to consider about saying/implying DA is a bust, how do we define a bust? What qualifications should be used to determine if a Patriot WR is a bust?? How about we use this general standard for what a bust is:
The WR must earn at least 4 million a year, must average 1 catch or less per game, must average 50% or less target to completion ratio, and must perform better on a stupid TV dance competition show than on the playing field.
All of a sudden it seems kinda silly to put DA in the bust category doesn't it?

 

[DarrylS]

A whole bunch of rhetoric, with the underlying theme that Welker is better... not sure you can compare them, as they play different positions. Welker left because his agents screwed up and signed for less money in Denver.

It is what it is, a wide receiver who is pretty good and beneficial to this team.. a player that can get a good payday if he stays on the field. Good value for the money.. "BB school of economics".

 

[Brady6]

That's because he doesn't know anything about football, all he knows is stats and fantasy garbage. Following the 2 best wins they have had this year, N.O., and Denver he has spent his entire week trashing Amendola. He doesn't care about the team he only cares about fantasy bullsh.t.

You don’t have the wherewithal to assess what my knowledge of football is Ivan and if your knowledge was superior to mine you would not need to turn tactics such as this type of post where you demean or diminish me as a poster, that is unnecessary.

As far as relying too heavily on stats that maybe a valid argument with a number of players on the team but Amendola is not one of them in fact of all players on this team Amendola is likely one of the most defined by his numbers on the stat sheet, as I said before he provides no value in the run blocking game, he does not command multiple defenders therefore opening up opportunities for others and he doesn’t play any special teams role currently. Given those factors what else should I be looking at outside of targets, receptions and yardage? I do not claim to be the most intelligent poster on this board so if there is something I am not looking at instead of highlighting my shortcomings why don’t you educate me on what I am missing and I will absolutely be receptive to it.

As far when I wrote what I wrote, I did not open this thread I chimed in as did you. What is interesting is that you clearly pointed out that the Saints and Broncos victories were the biggest wins of the season and in those 2 games combined our prized free agent signing and replacement for Wes Welker combined for:

Targets – 10
Receptions – 5
Catch ratio – 50%
Receiving yards – 17
Yards per reception – 3.4
Touchdowns – 0
Drops – 1
Penalties – 1 for -10 yards

Essentially the two biggest victories of the season Amendola accounted for a net of 7 positive yards and 0 first downs, that is not indicative of him doing anything positive on the football field Ivan so just because we won the games doesn’t mean I have to act like he is doing a good job, he player very well in week 1 and has not played well since if that is due to the groin injury then so be it and I look forward to seeing a 100+ reception, 1000+ receiving yards season in 2014. If that happens I will own my being wrong about him, the question is will you own it he doesn’t perform to that level or are you going to continue to hang the carrot of hope in here of what Danny could or would be?

 

[Brady6]

Brady6, you are an enthusiastic and prolific poster, and I often agree with things you say. You make a lot of good points in this thread, but you bury them under unnecessary nonsense.

Among the claims:

--Claim that Danny Amendola is popular here because he is from here. He is from Texas and went to college in Texas and then played in Missouri before moving to Massachusetts for work. Google exists. It's easy to find such facts. If you can find everyone's catch percentages you can find where someone is from.

--Referencing someone having a "... sucks" forum. It's true that he has such a forum, but those forums are garbage that something called talk-sports.net uses to try and generate traffic. Type in the name of any player in the NFL and then write "sucks." Talk-sports.net has one for Armond Armstead, and one for Will Svitek. Will Svitek sucks! I saw it on the internet!

--Claim that Wes Welker joined the Patriots after 2 seasons in the NFL, with a steady improvement rate, while Amendola spent 4 years middling with the Rams. Welker played 3 seasons (with a steady improvement rate) before joining the NEP, and Amendola was instantly one of the best players on the Rams as a rookie.

--Cherry picking of stats is annoying, especially when they are used without context. Also, some of the stats in question could have their relevancy questioned.

It was posited that last season's 58 catch, 700 yard, 1 touchdown performance was "tremendous." Kendall Wright's 65-763-2 TD season was also deemed "a tremendous performance." Danny Amendola should put up numbers right around this, while missing significant portions of the season and playing with his groin ripped off. I believe this was during some misguided attempt to downplay Amendola's performance in St Louis by using raw statistics, with no mind paid to his role on the team.

It was also during this portion of the thread that you said that Sam Bradford was "actually pretty good," or something of the sort. That is not true. Sam Bradford is bad.

--The best one, by far, is refuting the accusation of a straw man argument by demonstrating that you are not familiar with the concept of a straw man argument.


I do not aim to make you feel bad, or to start a flame war with you, and I know that you will not engage me in one as you are a very respectful poster. I appreciate your insights and enthusiasm. I am merely hoping to point out that playing sloppy/loose with the facts when they don't fit your argument while being razor sharp on the ones that do does not reflect well. You are an intelligent poster and don't need to do anything other than make your point.

As for the argument itself: Amendola certainly hasn't delivered, to this point, the production that could be reasonably expected entering the season. But what I really cannot understand is the ignoring of the groin injury, and the comparisons to other players who are dealing with injuries yet thriving. Those injuries are different, and surely playing with your groin ripped off will slow you down.

As countless others have said, Amendola will be with the team next season, and hopefully his groin will be better. Next year is the first time we can safely start calling him a bust, in my opinion. And I hope it never happens!

I have no issue or offense taken with anything you’ve written; I will admit I have spotlighted some things such as the forum to highlight Amendola’s shortcomings.

I have no issue with Amendola as a player if he was here for $2 million a season I would have nothing but positives to say about the guy, the problem I have is with him being here on a 5 year $30 million contract with the expectation set amongst fans that he is fit to replaces one of the greatest Patriots of this era and potentially the greatest slot receiver to play in the NFL. Those circumstances of his salary and expectations are what makes him a bust, if he did not come with those things attached to him he would not be a bust, the reality is Amendola is actually playing at the same exact level he has played his entire career – coming into this season he had played in 42 games and averaged 4.71 receptions for 41.09 receiving yards per contest, this season he has played in 7 games and averaged 4.57 receptions for 51.4 yards per game so he actually is slightly better in terms of yardage. To me it appears we signed a player and he is performing almost exactly how he has always played.

My point is only that Amendola is not living up to his billing and the expectations of what he was going to become in New England, if you look at him in terms of living up to his previous play level than no he is not a bust at all, actually Amendola is not the problem the fans and the media who laid out this ridiculous expectations for him are the failures he has actually come in and been what he is almost to an exact. If that is because of injuries then so be it but injuries were part of the concerns during free agency so for them to come in fruition and impact his performance then where is the surprise? People said Amendola is often injured he arrived and has been injured, his performances has been on par with his career numbers which were also impacted by injuries. I am sorry but if his history reflects something, his present reflects the same things how can I sit here and pretend his future is going to reflect anything different especially something better? That is a recipe for disappointment in my opinion.

 

[Brady6]

All of a sudden it seems kinda silly to put DA in the bust category doesn't it?

People label Eric Fisher and D.J. Hayden busts and they’re rookies but it’s too soon to label a 5th year player on his second contract a bust this season? Amendola has played more snaps for this team than Dowling did and he is labeled a bust, Amendola has appeared in as many games on the Patriots as Jake Bequette and everyone labels him a bust. I don’t get how its too soon to label Amendola a bust but players like Bequette and Wilson are recognized as busts, if anything I would think the younger less experienced players would be receiving the additional time to prove themselves not the other way around.

I think it is silly reference 1 games of the 49 career games Amendola has played as the one that indicates what he is as a player.

 

[AzorianPats]

People label Eric Fisher and D.J. Hayden busts and they’re rookies but it’s too soon to label a 5th year player on his second contract a bust this season? Amendola has played more snaps for this team than Dowling did and he is labeled a bust, Amendola has appeared in as many games on the Patriots as Jake Bequette and everyone labels him a bust. I don’t get how its too soon to label Amendola a bust but players like Bequette and Wilson are recognized as busts, if anything I would think the younger less experienced players would be receiving the additional time to prove themselves not the other way around.

I think it is silly reference 1 games of the 49 career games Amendola has played as the one that indicates what he is as a player.

Amendola as contributed wins for this team!!! Dowling and Bequette never seen the field....

 

[Bruins29]

Amendola as contributed wins for this team!!! Dowling and Bequette never seen the field....

Comical isnt it.