How much is it going to cost us to keep Talib?

[mgteich]

IF TALIB IS HEALTHY
Then, we can franchise him. We won't be willing to pay the top money on a long-term contract. Someone will pay him more.

IF HEALTHY IS NOT HEALTHY
Then we have a chance to compete for a player who may or may not be available for the playoffs each year, depending on the status of his ongoing injury. This doesn't work unless Talib has an operation and has injury clauses in the contract. If he is available, I suppose that we might sign him for small money, as we did Vollmer.

QUESTION
How valuable is a corner who is injured half the time? Is it better to sign a lesser corner (perhaps for the same money as Talib would have cost) and hope that our future is in Dennard and Ryan.

It will be great if Talib is 100% for the playoffs this year. This still seems unlikely.

 

[Fencer]

One problem is that a LOT of teams could use Talib. Notwithstanding Schiano's botched use of Revis, Talib fits most schemes and most preexisting rosters.

If he plays through the end of this season like he did at its start, I think Talib is looking at a $2X million guarantee at least. If a guy is worth franchising, he is worth 2X the franchise amount on a guarantee (that's one reason the Welker negotiations were so odd).

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Talib is the definition of injury prone. With that said, I think no matter how well he plays, his injury is going to drop his price unless he goes to a desperate team that likes handing out millions of dollars. Otherwise, I think we might be able to resign him and but we need to resign devin though.

 

[Fencer]

By the way, we have 4 guys in line to be paid a lot -- Solder, Jones, Talib & McCourty.

Beyond that, we have various middle-class guys to re-sign or replace -- several OL, Spikes, Dennard, etc.

Yes, I'm being sloppy by, for example, mentioning Jones but not Hightower from the same draft class. So sue me.

 

[Ivan]

By the way, we have 4 guys in line to be paid a lot -- Solder, Jones, Talib & McCourty.

Beyond that, we have various middle-class guys to re-sign or replace -- several OL, Spikes, Dennard, etc.

Yes, I'm being sloppy by, for example, mentioning Jones but not Hightower from the same draft class. So sue me.

They don't have to do anything about Jones, Solder, or Hightower for 2 years and Dennard will be restricted when he comes up. McCourty is the only one who is a pressing need and even he doesn't have to be dealt with this coming offseason. Spikes is the only pressing deal out of those you mentioned and they aren't going to pay him what he wants.

 

[JoeSixPat]

He would want to be paid like a top 10 CB at the very least, most likely top 5. That means we're talking 9-10m annual. So I don't see how 3/24 would appeal to Talib or his agent.

Maybe 5/40-5/45 can get it done, but I wouldn't be surprised if some team desperate for a #1 CB offered him 5/50.

It'd be more accurate to say "Talib wants to be paid like he's a free agent"

The thing is he's really not - he can be tagged for 1 year - possibly 2.

In that light, and given his injury history, Talib might not want to go year to year and thus could be open to a 3 year deal if there's a no-tag agreement worked in.

A 3 yr/$24 million with $18 mil guaranteed is less than the next 2 franchise tag salaries would be but he's getting most of it up front. Year 3 would likely be a franchise friendly year if most was front loaded - giving the Pats a chance to extend him if he's worthy, or simply ride it out or cut him if his production dropped or the injury bug continued.

He'd still just be 30 by the time he's an actual free agent - so he'd still have one more big contract as an actual free agent (unlike now when he can be tagged) on the horizon.

 

[Brady6]

He would want to be paid like a top 10 CB at the very least, most likely top 5. That means we're talking 9-10m annual. So I don't see how 3/24 would appeal to Talib or his agent.

Maybe 5/40-5/45 can get it done, but I wouldn't be surprised if some team desperate for a #1 CB offered him 5/50.

I think Talib really enjoys playing in New England; the guy could have got big money this offseason from a team if you ask me but he came back on a 1 year deal. I genuinely believe Talib will accept $1-$2 million less per season to remain in New England, his career prior to arriving here heading towards in season street free agent - I think Talib understands that being in a good place where he can excel is worth some financial sacrifice.

 

[Brady6]

They don't have to do anything about Jones, Solder, or Hightower for 2 years and Dennard will be restricted when he comes up. McCourty is the only one who is a pressing need and even he doesn't have to be dealt with this coming offseason. Spikes is the only pressing deal out of those you mentioned and they aren't going to pay him what he wants.

Solder is an UFA at the end of 2014; he was drafted in 2011.

Key players over the next few years:

2013
• Talib
• Spikes
• Wendell
• Edelman
• Blount
• Fletcher
• Hoomanawanui

2014
• McCourty
• Solder
• Wilfork
• Ridley
• Vereen
• Kelly
• Mallett
• Slater
• Cannon
• Connolly

2015
• C. Jones
• Dennard (R)
• Hightower
• Thompkins (R)
• Vellano (R)
• Armstead
• Bequette
• T. Wilson
• Ebner

Good news is compared to many teams we’re actually in very good shape.

 

[manxman2601]

Solder is an UFA at the end of 2014; he was drafted in 2011.

Key players over the next few years:

2013
• Talib
• Spikes
• Wendell
• Edelman
• Blount
• Fletcher
• Hoomanawanui

2014
• McCourty
• Solder
• Wilfork
• Ridley
• Vereen
• Kelly
• Mallett
• Slater
• Cannon
• Connolly

2015
• C. Jones
• Dennard (R)
• Hightower
• Thompkins (R)
• Vellano (R)
• Armstead
• Bequette
• T. Wilson
• Ebner

Good news is compared to many teams we’re actually in very good shape.

The ones in bold are the ones I'd prioritise. Not ocerly bothered about the rest and yes that includes Ridley. Great if he comes cheap but he's not worth a big contract. Vereen on the other hand is.

 

[mgteich]

If Solder was drafted in 2011, his 5th year option will be picked up in this next off-season. He will then we on the team through at least the end of 2015.

We are indeed in fine shape compared to some other teams.

However, I would note that we have essentially no cap room as of now for 2014. We have $121M under contract (including dead money). When you account for needed cap money later in the season (player 52 and 53, PS and an in-season injury fund) there really isn't much left.

We ill be better after allowing for adjusting the cap hit of our defensive line. Wilfork's cap hit cannot work, and we are unlikely to keep both Kelly and Sopoaga at their present salaries, even if Wilfork is not here. If he is, we would only keep one.

As is always the case, our focus needs to be on re-signing or replacing our players: Talib, Wendell, Spikes, Edelman, Blount, Fletcher, Hooman, Svitek, Aiken and Cole.

This situation is much better than that of last year.

Solder is an UFA at the end of 2014; he was drafted in 2011.


Good news is compared to many teams we’re actually in very good shape.

 

[Brady6]

If Solder was drafted in 2011, his 5th year option will be picked up in this next off-season. He will then we on the team through at least the end of 2015.

We are indeed in fine shape compared to some other teams.

However, I would note that we have essentially no cap room as of now for 2014. We have $121M under contract (including dead money). When you account for needed cap money later in the season (player 52 and 53, PS and an in-season injury fund) there really isn't much left.

We ill be better after allowing for adjusting the cap hit of our defensive line. Wilfork's cap hit cannot work, and we are unlikely to keep both Kelly and Sopoaga at their present salaries, even if Wilfork is not here. If he is, we would only keep one.

As is always the case, our focus needs to be on re-signing or replacing our players: Talib, Wendell, Spikes, Edelman, Blount, Fletcher, Hooman, Svitek, Aiken and Cole.

This situation is much better than that of last year.

I didn't know he had an option I thought he was in the draft prior to the rookie wage scale being implemented. Thanks for accurate information man!

Hopefully we can receive something back in terms of cap space for Hernandez.

 

[coolguy]

Talib is going to want 75+ million and he deserves every dollar.

There are too many team that need a great corner and are willing to cough up the big money.

Talib will be another great corner that left town for a big contract.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Talib is going to want 75+ million and he deserves every dollar.

There are too many team that need a great corner and are willing to cough up the big money.

Talib will be another great corner that left town for a big contract.

He may want it, but he for sure isn't getting it. Why would you pay that much for an injury prone corner who can't stay healthy??

 

[coolguy]

He may want it, but he for sure isn't getting it. Why would you pay that much for an injury prone corner who can't stay healthy??

People said the same thing about vick and the next season the eagles gave him a 6 year 100 million dollar contract.

Bad teams don't care about money :bricks:

 

[Brady6]

Talib is going to want 75+ million and he deserves every dollar.

There are too many team that need a great corner and are willing to cough up the big money.

Talib will be another great corner that left town for a big contract.

So given Talib’s age I am curious how many seasons the $75 million is for?

1. 2 years at $37.5 million per
2. 3 years at $25 million per
3. 4 years at $18.75 million per
4. 5 years at $15 million per

Revis is the highest paid corner at $16 million APY however none of that is guaranteed. After Revis it drops to Bailey at $10.6 million APY.

 

[Brady6]

People said the same thing about vick and the next season the eagles gave him a 6 year 100 million dollar contract.

Bad teams don't care about money :bricks:

Funny thing about that contract is it became a 1 year $7 million with $3.5 million contract real quick.

Teams aren’t paying big money like they used to if you look back at 2013’s free agent period you’ll see they paid big to retain their own players otherwise they were much tighter with their spending. Steve Smith received 3 years/$16.5 million, Brett Grimes received 1 year/$5.5 million. The top ranked defensive player Cliff Avril received 2 years/$13 million.

 

[Ivan]

It is just going to come down to how the rest of his season goes. If he returns and plays the way he did for them when he was available earlier this season and stays healthy and dominant then he is going to be the top corner on the market and he will get a big deal, probably over 30 and possibly approaching 40 million. However if he gets hurt and misses significant down the stretch or in the play-offs then he's going to be right back where he was last offseason, a player who is excellent when available but too often out of action, and one with significant character questions. If that happens then it is going to be much easier for the Patriots to be in the game for him and construct a deal that pays him well but has clauses for playing time and character issues. I will take the ring every time so i will choose door#1 and hope he is both healthy and dominant the rest of the way, but if not then they will have a decent shot at keeping him around for a few years.

One thing that is going to play into all of these deals is that guys in the 27-28 year age range are going to do everything they can to maximize their deals, because once they hit 30 there are only a few of them that will be able to command big bucks and long deals. Talib no doubt would love to strike gold now, and will likely be really pissed if they franchise him, but his leverage is all going to come down to how much and how well he plays the rest of this season.

 

[Ivan]

I didn't know he had an option I thought he was in the draft prior to the rookie wage scale being implemented. Thanks for accurate information man!

Hopefully we can receive something back in terms of cap space for Hernandez.

Solder is on a 5 year deal, and as i said the rest aren't immediate and very manageable imo. The Patriots are going to be able to redo deals to create space and offer good deals to those they want to keep. Although i think they like Spikes as an intimidator and rotational player I don't think they see him the way he sees himself, and I doubt they will pay him anywhere near what he will want, and no way will he get a tag. They can redo Wilfork and create a lot of room, and i have no doubt they can tweak other deals to create whatever space they feel they need. I don't bother with capology any longer because i learned long ago that it is an exercise in futility, much like predicting who they will draft, so i'll just wait to see what they do but from the outside feel like they are in good shape overall to keep the roster very much the way they want to.Talib will be a challenge in all likelihood, but Wendell and Fletcher etc.. won't be hard to get done. They can worry about McCourty and the rest after they get this year taken care of. they are rarely in trouble and almost always have room to operate.

The owners did a brilliant job shaping the cap in their favor coming out of those labor negotiations, and so far it has stayed flat and the rookie cap mechanism has driven salaries down, but that won't last forever and at some point the massive influx of TV deals has to kick in and the cap go up, that should help ameliorate the situation somewhat as they move forward, in the meantime they still operate conservatively and they should be able to keep this team together.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I think something like 4 years $38mil would be fair for both sides. I might go as high as 4 years $42mil if its low guaranteed money and made up of incentives.

 

[Brady6]

Solder is on a 5 year deal, and as i said the rest aren't immediate and very manageable imo. The Patriots are going to be able to redo deals to create space and offer good deals to those they want to keep. Although i think they like Spikes as an intimidator and rotational player I don't think they see him the way he sees himself, and I doubt they will pay him anywhere near what he will want, and no way will he get a tag. They can redo Wilfork and create a lot of room, and i have no doubt they can tweak other deals to create whatever space they feel they need. I don't bother with capology any longer because i learned long ago that it is an exercise in futility, much like predicting who they will draft, so i'll just wait to see what they do but from the outside feel like they are in good shape overall to keep the roster very much the way they want to.Talib will be a challenge in all likelihood, but Wendell and Fletcher etc.. won't be hard to get done. They can worry about McCourty and the rest after they get this year taken care of. they are rarely in trouble and almost always have room to operate.

The owners did a brilliant job shaping the cap in their favor coming out of those labor negotiations, and so far it has stayed flat and the rookie cap mechanism has driven salaries down, but that won't last forever and at some point the massive influx of TV deals has to kick in and the cap go up, that should help ameliorate the situation somewhat as they move forward, in the meantime they still operate conservatively and they should be able to keep this team together.

What is his cap # for year 5? I cannot find what the option is on the internet.

» Over the Cap- Nate Solder Salary Cap and Contract Page

The thing about Solder is they may want to try and do it this offseason because he is quickly developing into the top LT in the game so if they can save a few bucks it could be a good move.

I agree they did a great job with their cap management and they carried over a good amount this season too. I am with you on the reworking of Wilfork I think they’ll turn it into a 3 year deal at a lower cost, Vince seems like a guy who is happy where he is. Mankins also carries a big number I don’t have the same confidence in his willingness to rework the deal but I think they will cut him outright if he refuses. Wendell should also be an interesting decision.

I would love to see Spikes back and I for one feel he is worth more on this team than anyplace else so I see it being a possibility, especially as teams spend more time in sub packages his value is not nearly as high on the open market.

Do you think they’ll see any relief for Hernandez? I am not that great at understanding the cap (dead money, etc.) I usually use Miguel’s page.