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How much is it going to cost us to keep Talib?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATS16N0, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. PATS16N0

    PATS16N0 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Are we going to be able to get this guy to stick around after this season?

    I haven't been this excited to watch a defensive back play here since the days of that TV trash talking traitor, Rodney Harrison.

    We win football games with this guy. He has post season clutch written all over him. He puts games away.

    I'd love to see a 2 year deal.

    What's our cap situation and who else do we need to resign?
    Is the speculative consensus here that we'll be able to keep him?
    Or does nobody have any idea?
  2. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rookie

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    His injuries may keep him in our price range. Look at how cheap we got Seabass. Seabass may not be the best run blocker but imho he is elite at pass blocking and even with his injuries is probably underpaid.
  3. AzorianPats

    AzorianPats Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    We have to resign McCourty as well, who to me is just as important as Talib is.

    I really want to resign Talib, but just for the sake of starting a debate here, Talib been on the team for a calendar year already. Since, we've seen 3 sides of him....

    • We've seen the Solid version of him last year (not bad, not great but better then what we had).

    •The shutdown version of him this year, which has been awesome, shutting down teams best receivers and taking half the field away!

    •And the injured version of him. This unfortunately as been the only constant. He's missed multiple games both season's, with the same injury.

    Now knowing he as a lingering hip injury, and we have to consider his past, I don't see this team giving Talib 8+ mil a year. I hope I'm wrong, cuz its been a long time since we've had a corner like this, but I just don't see it.
  4. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Talib will be at the prime NFL age of 28 for his upcoming free agency negotiation, coming into them with mentions of being one of the best defensive players of 2013, having passed up a multiyear deal this year to get to this upcoming negotiation/free agency. It sure seems like things point to Talib being at the optimum time in his career for signing a big contract and he is looking to sign for the best money (something I do not begrudge any player for doing). And it is very unlikely a 2 year offer will even get your call returned.
    IMHO Talib will not be signing a contract with the Patriots. But for arguments sake let's say BB broke the bank and threw the kitchen sink in to sign him, what pain is in store because of it? I'd bet for starters it means Big Vince is done as a Patriot. Who else is going to be let go to afford a contract that keeps Talib here?

    Talib has been a Patriot for about 18 games? Within that time he has started off on the suspension list, then played decently, then was hurt/off the field, then played excellent, then has been hurt/off the field. So while I agree that it has been very nice to see Talib raise the level of play in the secondary, is there nothing to consider when deciding how much to pay Talib given his track record with the Patriots? Is he worth every possible penny even if it means Big Vince and other(s) have to be let go?

    Did Talib's one year deal include a no tag clause? I don't recall hearing that and I assume tagging him is an option available to BB. So if Talib does come back from his injury playing lights out and makes himself a highly sought commodity, it seems like it is BB's nature to try to wrest something away from the team most hot on signing Talib. Yet can we afford to pay Talib if he decides to just sign the tag and play under that one year deal (I assume the tag number will be well north of 10 million)? What kind of bad feelings does the tag create between BB and Talib? And will a team give up anything of value just to sign Talib considering that team will already be paying some very serious $$$?
    If I am reading the tea leaves right, we have yet another offseason of signing drama in store.
  5. Big-T

    Big-T On the Roster

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    #51 Jersey

    If the market set last year stays somewhat similar the Pats are looking good, Charles Tillman & Brandon Browner are good FA CBs too so all 3 might be waiting to see what the other gets too.

    I'd start with $6.5m a year guaranteed with playing time escalators that could take him up to $9m ($156,250 a game in bonus) which is a bit of a buffer for games missed due to injury.
  6. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I would not sign him for the money and length of contract he'll be looking for. Hes injured to often to command the $10 or $11 million a year he'll want.
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Eh, he's going to be looking to cash in, injury or not. The history with his hip will probably cause the team to lowball him and he'll ride off into the sunset with another team that's looking to pay more than the Pats are. It sucks, but that's probably going to be the case.
  8. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    FYI The franchise tag for cornerbacks was $10,854,000.

    » Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Cornerback
    may be of some help.

    Personally, I do not think that there is any chance that Talib will sign a two-year deal.

    I have yet to see a media report that Talib's 2013 contract includes a no-tag provision.
  9. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    From that perspective, I think that's the only way Talib comes back next year. How happy he'll be about it, I don't know. Like most other guys looking at their next big pay day, he probably wants some long term security. But, at the very least, it would give the Pats another year to either groom a replacement for him or see if any of the CB's on the roster (Ryan?) are capable of stepping in when he departs.
  10. Big-T

    Big-T On the Roster

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    #51 Jersey

    Discounting the top 4 who are all wildly overpaid (Cortland Finnegan on $10m a year?!) Talib in the 8-9m a year range looks to be the way to go.
  11. Brady6

    Brady6 On the Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    I would say 3 years $24 mil with $18 mil guaranteed would be what it would cost.

    This is a list of the top paid CB’s in the NFL: » Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Cornerback
  12. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    His worth and value dependant upon how he returns from injury and can he stay healthy for the rest of the year.

    Will he play anywhere near the level he was prior to the injury.....if we see that guy, break the bank. If we see the guy that left the playoff raven game, no thanks, at least not without surgery and a lower contract.
  13. Brady6

    Brady6 On the Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    The good thing about McCourty is he appears to be high character so he does not come with the long term concerns associated with some players. McCourty is also 26 years old. Ideally they could sign Talib to a 3 year deal at $8 mil a year and then sign McCourty to a 5 year deal with his highest salaries being the final 2 years of the contract.

    Keep in mind that Chandler Jones will have to be paid in the next few years too and if he continues to improve as a player he could potentially be looking for a record breaking contract.
  14. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    I think that the best way to go here is for a big dollar contract that has a low guarantee based on health. Then they can trade higher guarantees for years of contract length. Also about an $8MM signing bonus is going to have to be worked into the deal regardless -

    So here's a deal that I would think is fair - 4 years and $40 Million. An 8MMsigning bonus up front. Then 4MM per year guaranteed and the rest based on per game bonuses based on games played

    If he's healthy he's worth 10MM/yr. Clearly his teammates love him. He plays hard and with passion. He's been great off the field as well since he's been here. Whatever emotional problems he had in Tampa have passed as he's matured. So pay him what he's worth as long as he's on the field and accept that guaranteeing around 60% of the contract is simply the cost of keeping a core defensive player.

    We'd also have to accept that elevating another big contract player to the defense is going to mean that one big contract is going to have to come off that side of the ball, and that means that Vince is going to have to take a pay cut if wants to remain a Patriot.

    Personally I think that will happen. Vince is level headed enough to understand that you cannot get paid in this league based on past performance. As you age your performance decreases, especially at a constant contact position like NT/DT. So coming off a year where it looked like he was in a bit of decline to begin with, and then add a severe injury like an Achilles, I think Vince fully expects to be asked to take a cut.

    The issue is going to be how big a cut is he willing to take. vs how big a market is there going to be for a well worn NT/DT coming off a serious injury. My biggest concern about the Achilles injury is how it is going to affect his quickness, which is a big part of his game.

    In any event. The first rule of Capology remains valid and needs to be repeated: For every dollar you give one player, there is one less dollar for everyone else.

    So signing or not signing any of these players (ie McCourty, Jones, Talib, Solder, etc) is going to have a major consequence on the rest of the roster, and the ripple effect WILL be felt. The major problem I see is that most fans and mediots tend to look at these contract negotiations in a vacuum.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    His injury history says that you don't pay him a long term deal. I think the Pats franchise him and see if he can go a year without injury before they give him a big deal. He has a re-occurring hip injury. It seems like that may be a condition that is going to plague him the rest of his career.

    It is kinda funny that people are willing to pay Talib top dollar, but kill Amendola for taking a good value deal even though both players are just as injury prone. I know Talib was one of the best CBs in the league before his injury, but he has never played a full season in his career.
  16. kennyb

    kennyb Rookie

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    Tag and trade for a mid second and draft dennard of msu.
  17. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    He would want to be paid like a top 10 CB at the very least, most likely top 5. That means we're talking 9-10m annual. So I don't see how 3/24 would appeal to Talib or his agent.

    Maybe 5/40-5/45 can get it done, but I wouldn't be surprised if some team desperate for a #1 CB offered him 5/50.
  18. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    he has not played in 3 weeks and he is still 2th in the NFL in INT's and he pretty much shutdown every WR/TE he faced even with the injury he will be looking for anywhere from 9 to 11 million per year,


    the pats may TAG him but I just don't see the pats paying him that much on a long term contract IMO he walks after this season
  19. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Obviously an elite corner when healthy. Some people are almost 'meh' on his performance last year, but nothing could be further from the truth--teams weren't throwing to his side much. He's the truly shutdown [not to mention big, TALL and physical corner] this team hasn't had since.....like maybe never? Plus he seems like a total gamer and good teammate as well--not afraid to mix it up with the other team.

    TBS I don't think there's any way he gets a long-term deal from the Pats considering the injury history. BB has to franchise him unless he thinks Talib will go into pouting, half-assed effort mode if that happens.

    EDIT: And I totally agree with fgssand that almost everything depends on whether he can stay healthy and continue to perform like he has been for the remainder of the year.
  20. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I originally believed Talib would set the market, but injuries are bringing him down. Depending on how many more games he misses, it may not be impossible to keep him. If he actually like the team situation (ie., his nice words this year are not simply a pre-payday performance), then he may actually stick around. If he does, it would have to be $7- $9 million per year on the average factoring in the signing bonus for a multi-year deal.

    I agree with Kontra that barring these considerations some team will pay more and he goes.

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