The Official Rounds 2&3 2013 NFL Draft Thread

[DaBruinz]

They traded down, which gave them a chance to address multiple need positions with top prospects, and then they wasted the opportunity it gave them.

Could you please explain what the criteria is that you are using to determine that the Patriots wasted the opportunity to address multiple need positions with "top prospects"? Just who were these "top prospects" you are referring to that were available when the Patriots draft picks were up?

 

[Brady2Moss]

What do you think is the track record of most teams in the league. Fact of the matter is if you get two starters and one or two role players out of a draft, you had a pretty good draft. If you get much more, odds are you had a great draft.

Look at most teams and they have far more busts between rounds 2-4 than hits.

It is probably the same as ours what is your point? My point is you are giving up a pick where you have a higher chance of success for more picks where the chance of busting is higher and the number of impact players is reduced.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh boy. Another real "intelligent" guy who doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have news for you. Chung was a starter for 3 years. 2010, 2011 and 2012. During that time, there were only 5 games he played in that he didn't start. 2010 he was 13/14, 2011 he was 8/8, and 2012 he was 8/12. If you want to moan about him being injured, that's a different story.

Chung sucked. He was bad from the beginning, because he could never cover worth a damn. You defending that pick makes pretty much everything you'll ever say completely worthless.*


* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

 

[Deus Irae]

Could you please explain what the criteria is that you are using to determine that the Patriots wasted the opportunity to address multiple need positions with "top prospects"?

No. There's no need to. It's self explanatory.

 

[belichick010405]

They lack CB depth, if Talib gets hurt like he has a history of doing its back to Arrington island on the outside and then you are completely screwed. Wilson is a part time player that might be toast. The defense is only as good as Talib's health is, if he is healthy they are a good defense agreed. If he gets hurt they are screwed and did nothing to address that problem.

Brady is going to be mentally tested this season due to his top 3 targets being frequently injured. Dobson better be ready to make an impact year 1, I like his potential but we need impact NOW not 2 years from now the window is almost shut.

They had a lot of cap space and decent draft picks. They signed a bunch of JAGs while retaining their own (not impressive when you have a **** load of cap space) and then traded back and literally drafted horrendous players in the 3rd round and a guy who literally quit on his team and showed minimal effort in the year that serves as his try out for the NFL.

Collins and Dobson may be great 1-2 years from now, but we needed impact now and did not get it. I'm sorry they are worse.

Dude - no offense but you are a jackass.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wilson was a higher pick who no one had ever heard of. You couldn't even find film on him. Kiper didn't even know who he was.

Just because Kiper didn't know who Wilson was doesn't mean anything. Kiper isn't a savant though many people would like to think he is. Mel Kiper is a Joel Buschbaum rump swabber. Buschbaum forgot more about football than Kiper would ever know.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Chung sucked. He was bad from the beginning, because he could never cover worth a damn. You defending that pick makes pretty much everything you'll ever say completely worthless.*


* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

He might be the same guy defending Jake Bequette last night or was that some other looney toon homer?

 

[Rob0729]

This isn't true at all.

BS! There are at least a half dozen of posters who disappear when the Pats are winning and everything is going well only to pop up like pariah to tell us "see I told you". Yes, there are too many people on thois

Collins was very inconsistent as a pass rusher. His technique, in particular, was also inconsistent. I would say something about his effort, but my opinion on that comes from the eye test and isn't a measurable so I'll leave it at that.

As for what he was drafted for, look at his three cone and 40. He was drafted to be a coverage LB, CLEARLY. There is no question about that. The reason I rated him as a meh is because he seems to be an upgrade to anybody else we have there currently.

We do not know what he was clearly drafted for unless you were in the room. I think Belichick's top priority was fixing their mediocre pass rush which is why the secondary gets exposed much of the time.

Again, I am no draftnick, but it was my understanding if it wasn't for last year, Collins would have been potentially a very high draft pick. He became inconsistent when his team went from being good to being 0-12. If I am wrong, maybe I will change my opinion.

 

[Sciz]

This isn't a bad draft. It's one that wasn't top heavy, but was at least three rounds deep at positions of need. Again, I need you to present a case to me why it was a bad draft, because you just saying it was a bad draft in response isn't cutting it. As a matter of fact, it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about and didn't spend a whole lot of time following these kids, or college football in general. And that is being said with all due respect.

1. A pretty low number of trades, because teams don't really see any players with exceptional value.
2. An extremely low number of trades involving future picks (I believe only the 2014 3rd going from the Titans to the 49ers as part of the trade for 34).
3. GM: Worst NFL Draft in past 10 years or more - CBSSports.com

"When we look back at this draft in five or 10 years," said the team executive, "we might view it as one of the worst we've seen in some time."

What I'm hearing repeatedly from some team personnel men, as the draft gets closer and the honesty increases, is that this draft is subpar. Extremely subpar.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't need to do anything. I was saying this was a bad draft before the Pats even picked.

I have said a million times I am no draftnick. I am only going by what has been reported. And it has been reported by multiple sources that this draft sucks. From Mike Freeman:



GM: Worst NFL Draft in past 10 years or more - CBSSports.com

You don't want to take my opinion of valid because you refuse to valid my point. No offense intended.

Freeman is stating his opinion (to be noted) on the draft in general. For the Patriots, this draft was three rounds deep at positions of need. The fact that you have to quote pundits on the draft in general (no doubt the same pundits that you've been ready to put on the pire in years past for negative thoughts on the Pats) is very telling. It should also be noted that the reason the pundits weren't creaming their pants over this draft was because of the lack of NFL-ready quarterbacks. But for the Patriots, this was a very deep draft. If you don't believe me, ask any number of posters that have been working on this draft for the past year. So far, in a draft very deep for them, they've drafted at a rate of 50%.

 

[ausbacker]

This is certainly one of the more idiotic things you've ever posted. I never want a Patriots player to fail, and I've made it clear that I'm talking about the process here, and not the eventual outcome. If every player they drafted becomes a HOF candidate, I'll be thrilled by their play, and I'll still consider the process of the draft to have been a complete pooch screw, just as I've defended the Tate pick in the face of people who scream about Wallace, even though Tate failed here, because I've always considered Tate to be a flier pick at the end of a series of need picks.



* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

The process is exactly the same every year Deus. The Patriots have a different board and scouting system to everyone. Every year, your position is the same. That's the two things I expect without fail every draft time.

In respect to your Patriots player fail comment, I rescind that. I had something else in mind in regards to that comment, namely the specifics of individual player ratings. My apologies.

 

[Rob0729]

It is probably the same as ours what is your point? My point is you are giving up a pick where you have a higher chance of success for more picks where the chance of busting is higher and the number of impact players is reduced.

Other than a handful of seasons, the Pats have had a more successful draft record than most teams. Yet, you want them to drop their draft philosophy to adopt one that may not work.

They believe if you have more picks, the better chance you get more players to contribute. I don't know if anyone has proven that staying in the first round guarantees more of a successful pick.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Other than a handful of seasons, the Pats have had a more successful draft record than most teams. Yet, you want them to drop their draft philosophy to adopt one that may not work.

They believe if you have more picks, the better chance you get more players to contribute.

If they are so good at drafting why haven't they had a pass rush, competent secondary, or a home grown receiver in years? And yes I am aware of their throw **** at the wall and see what sticks strategy, it applies to free agency too and usually bites them in the ass in January.

 

[Kontradiction]

BS! There are at least a half dozen of posters who disappear when the Pats are winning and everything is going well only to pop up like pariah to tell us "see I told you". Yes, there are too many people on

Problem is that you and ausbacker, who I generally have a good amount of respect for, are trying to lump posters who have legitimate beefs in with the chicken littles. This is no doubt due to the fact that said posters are trying to find anyway they can to rate this draft so far over 50% over overwhelming facts.

We do not know what he was clearly drafted for unless you were in the room. I think Belichick's top priority was fixing their mediocre pass rush which is why the secondary gets exposed much of the time.

Again, I am no draftnick, but it was my understanding if it wasn't for last year, Collins would have been potentially a very high draft pick. He became inconsistent when his team went from being good to being 0-12. If I am wrong, maybe I will change my opinion.

He was an inconsistent pass rusher with bad technique and maybe a quitter, but a good coverage LB. You just stated as much yourself. Therefore, it's safe to assume that he was drafted as a coverage LB.

 

[Sciz]

Freeman is stating his opinion (to be noted) on the draft in general. For the Patriots, this draft was three rounds deep at positions of need. The fact that you have to quote pundits on the draft in general (no doubt the same pundits that you've been ready to put on the pire in years past for negative thoughts on the Pats) is very telling. It should also be noted that the reason the pundits weren't creaming their pants over this draft was because of the lack of NFL-ready quarterbacks. But for the Patriots, this was a very deep draft. If you don't believe me, ask any number of posters that have been working on this draft for the past year. So far, in a draft very deep for them, they've drafted at a rate of 50%.

That's not Freeman's opinion. It's what he's "hearing repeatedly from some team personnel men," including one GM. Unless you want to argue that Freeman is making that up, in which case we'd have to argue about something completely different.

Belichick would also seem to disagree that this draft is deep at positions of need, considering he passed on all of those players available for a guy that is probably the #5 safety on the roster right now.

 

[belichick010405]

I agree that this is a likely outcome. It didn't have to be, though, which is the point. The team had the ammo to get a top safety prospect and two top WR prospect, while keeping some of the lower picks. Instead they dropped down and then drafted a quitter at a position where there was no need.*

* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.


P.S. sorry about the disclaimer nonsense, but I'm tired of hearing the same bleating sheep crying that I'm putting my opinion forth as fact when I'm doing the same thing they are, so I'm attempting to make absolutely clear something that should already be obvious.

They drafted a 'quitter'? Does anyone know what in the hell he is talking about?

 

[ausbacker]

Problem is that you and ausbacker, who I generally have a good amount of respect for, are trying to lump posters who have legitimate beefs in with the chicken littles. This is no doubt due to the fact that said posters are trying to find anyway they can to rate this draft so far over 50% over overwhelming facts.

He was an inconsistent pass rusher with bad technique and maybe a quitter, but a good coverage LB. You just stated as much yourself. Therefore, it's safe to assume that he was drafted as a coverage LB.

No, I'm not Kontra. There's a clear difference between a clear beef such as Deus Irae and a chicken little such as Brady2Moss. Deus goes to great lengths to discuss why he holds the position that he does. That's a fine quality and opens discussion. My surprise is year in year out people are ready to commit seppuku before a player has even seen a snap in the NFL. I'm happy to question picks (and so should everyone else) but there's also an underlying theory that if you don't see value or like something enough to buy it you don't.

 

[Rob0729]

Freeman is stating his opinion (to be noted) on the draft in general. For the Patriots, this draft was three rounds deep at positions of need. The fact that you have to quote pundits on the draft in general (no doubt the same pundits that you've been ready to put on the pire in years past for negative thoughts on the Pats) is very telling. It should also be noted that the reason the pundits weren't creaming their pants over this draft was because of the lack of NFL-ready quarterbacks. But for the Patriots, this was a very deep draft. If you don't believe me, ask any number of posters that have been working on this draft for the past year. So far, in a draft very deep for them, they've drafted at a rate of 50%.

And the fact you counter me supporting my opinion with just your opinion and not much else in a condescending tone is even more telling.


Seriously, the positons the Pats had need for were:

• WR - other than Tavon Austin, there wasn't a huge difference between the number of guys that were available including Dobson. You can argue that someone else might have been slightly better, but not a whole heck of a lot.
• D-line - Most of the best DEs were taken before the Pats drafted. By the time the Pats actually draft, even most of the second tier guys were off the board. A few more options at DT.
• A coverage LB - You seem pretty clear that there was no one available and the Pats should have waited until the 4th to get one.
• CB - A run pretty early. Not a heck of a lot left and the Pats need depth over a starter.
• Safety - that position was picked pretty clean by the time the Pats drafted. Could have drafted better though.

Yes, the draft was deep at WR, but you aren't upset with the Dobson pick. And as I pointed out, there were no real standouts in the group beyond Austin. It was deep at d-lineman, but not by the time the Pats drafted.

Where is the deep part of the draft where the Pats whiffed?

 

[Brady2Moss]

They drafted a 'quitter'? Does anyone know what in the hell he is talking about?

He stopped caring because his team sucked.

 

[belichick010405]

He stopped caring because his team sucked.

You are a disgrace to this board. You should know that.