The 2013 Prospect Thread

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Too high, too low?

Too high. He basically said what I have said a while ago and what Mayo said above; worthy of a seventh.

One thing that also confuses me; are all torn ACL's the same? When we hear about a torn ACL, the only thing we're told is "torn ACL."

That's a good question, but the answer doesn't matter in this case. Reporting of injury specifics doesn't really exist. Like you said it's "broken arm" or "torn ACL" and that's all we get most of the time. Luckily my friend is a sports fan, so he sees the injuries and estimates the diagnosis.

But I assume some are worse than others, and, even if I was a doctor, I don't know how I could make a prediction with a guy like Lattimore without seeing his particular X-rays. Am I right?

Not being a doctor, I think you're underestimating just how much expertise and experience they possess. Sure it would be better if he had direct access, but he hasn't been wrong yet.

I believe Lattimore's official released diagnosis was "damage to multiple ligaments" and it was rumored to be ACL, PCL and MCL. South Carolina's Lattimore believed to have McGahee-like injuries - CBSSports.com

 

[Off The Grid]

I see Draft forum rivalries are forming.

"Rivalries"???

We're not in competition, here.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

"Rivalries"???

We're not in competition, here.

Actually we are. Mackenzie is a Bengals fan.

 

[mayoclinic]

Actually we are. Mackenzie is a Bengals fan.

So am I, today at least. and next week as well if they win.

 

[mackenzie45220]

"Enter" is a very easy Key to hit.

Doesn't take much effort at all.

I would think that ~ as an exuberant 16 Year Old ~ you could manage it.

I don't get it

 

[mayoclinic]

Barkevious Mingo reportedly coming out:

Barkevious Mingo joins LSU juniors headed to draft

No word on Sam Montgomery, but he can't be far behind.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Actually we are. Mackenzie is a Bengals fan.

That's not entirely true. I'm from Cincinnati, but my mom was born and raised in Green Bay. I wore a Packers onesie, and I was raised a Packer. My dad is from Puerto Rico and had no natural allegiance to any team, so he became a Packer too.

 

[mackenzie45220]

One thing you guys should know about Kyle Long: he plays guard right now for Oregon. I definitely don't think it's a good fit, but, keep in mind, there's a lot of difficulty involved in position changes, and it makes him a project as an NFL tackle.

 

[mayoclinic]

With 10 days left for underclassmen to declare, not a terrible draft shaping up right now:

QB: Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Tyler Bray, Tyler Wilson, Mike Glennon, Zac Dysert, Ryan Nassib; undeclared: Aaron Murray

RB: Giovanni Bernard, Montee Ball, LeVeon Bell, Stepfan Taylor, Eddie Lacy, Andre Ellington

WR: Kennan Allen, Tavon Austin, Robert Woods, Cordarelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers, Markus Wheaton; undeclared: DeAndre Hopkins

TE: Tyler Eifert, Dion Sims, Jordan Reed; undeclared: Zach Ertz, Levine Toilolu

OT: Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson, Oday Aboushi, Justin Pugh, Brennan Williams, Kyle Long, Reid Fragl; undeclared: Luke Joeckel, Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan

OG/C: Chance Warmack, Jonathan Cooper, Barrett Jones, Dallas Thomas, Travis Frederick, Larry Warford, Brian Winters, Khaled Holmes

DT: Star Lotulelei, Johnathan Hankins, Sheldon Richardson, Jesse Williams, John Jenkins, Sharrif Floyd, Kawann Short, Sylvester Williams, Brandon Williams, Akeem Spence

DE: Bjoern Werner, Damontre Moore, Barkevious Mingo (OLB), Ezekiel Ansah, Dion Jordan (OLB), Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, Joe Kruger, William Gholston, Corey Lemonier (OLB), Alex Okafor, Datone Jones, Devin Taylor, John Simon (OLB); undeclared: Sam Montgomery, Trent Murphy

OLB: Jarvis Jones, Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Khaseem Greene, Chase Thomas, Brandon Jenkins, Sean Porter

ILB: Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, Shayne Skov, Nico Johnson, Kiko Alonso

S: Matt Elam, Eric Reid, Kenny Vaccaro, Phillip Thomas, TJ McDonald, DJ Swearinger, Shawn Williams, Baccari Rambo, Zeke Motta, Robert Lester

CB: Johnathan Banks, Xavier Rhodes, David Amerson (S), Logan Ryan, Jordan Poyer; undeclared: Dee Milliner

Walter Football lists DeAndre Hopkins and Tony Jefferson as having declared, but I haven't seen it confirmed. I'm assuming that Milliner, Joeckel and Lewan will declare.

Not a fabulous draft at the top, but there are some very good prospects in there.

 

[mayoclinic]

One thing you guys should know about Kyle Long: he plays guard right now for Oregon. I definitely don't think it's a good fit, but, keep in mind, there's a lot of difficulty involved in position changes, and it makes him a project as an NFL tackle.

He has also played tackle for them.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Robert Lester has stiff hips, doesn't look for the ball, blows coverages, and occasionally hits hard. He would be a seamless replacement for Chung. :bricks:

 

[mackenzie45220]

When it comes to Jordan, I agree with manxman. He doesn't have many pass rush moves. The only thing he does is speed rush. For that reason, I do think he is a better fit at outside linebacker, because he does have ability in coverage. I think there are lots of better available pass rushers. The thing I have a tough time wrapping my head around is, well, how is Jordan more valuable than say, Jamie Collins? People say Jordan has awesome length and height. As much as I love length, it's only useful if you know how to use your hands to shed off blocks. Until he learns something, anything at all, about hand usage, his height is more of a disadvantage, at least as a pass rusher, because he can't get low enough to get good leverage against offensive tackles. By comparison, Collins played both linebacker and defensive end this year (Southern Miss's base defense alternates between a 3-3-5 and a 4-2-5 depending on Collins). He got 10 sacks this year (well more than Jordan). He may not be as tall as Jordan, but Jordan's height doesn't matter since he knows nothing about hand usage. Collins can actually do something against the run (stats are by no means perfect, but 44 tackles compared to 92 tackles is kind of a big deal). Collins has mediocre quickness but great change of direction skills, which translates well in coverage. Although Jordan's height is nice in coverage, Collins is by no means too short to cover tight ends at 6'3. And athletically, they're basically identical. Collins is 240lbs and runs a 4.65. Jordan is 243lbs and runs a 4.68. So tell me: what does Jordan have that Collins doesn't?

 

[mackenzie45220]

He has also played tackle for them.

Junior year? I've watch 3 games this year, haven't seen it.

 

[JMC00]

im hoping to watch more of them with Christian Hackenberg with Bill obriens offense could be a potential Brady replacement..

Wouldn't be surprised if Belichick maneuvers his future draft board to have a chance to get him when he comes out.

You know he already has Bill's interest with the fact that he went to a Military Academy not to mention i'm sure O'Brien probably put in a call to Belichick and told him to watch for him.

The fact that O'Brien and Saban both recruited him tells you something.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Quessenberry is in the senior bowl. I expect him to dominate.

 

[mayoclinic]

Junior year? I've watch 3 games this year, haven't seen it.

No, there was no junior year. Long transferred from Saddleback Junior College this spring. He started as the backup tackle this year, but essentially became a co-starter with Tyler Johnstone. All in all, he started 10 of 12 games for the Ducks. He moved from tackle to guard in November after starting LG Mana Greig was lost for the season with a knee injury.

 

[mayoclinic]

When it comes to Jordan, I agree with manxman. He doesn't have many pass rush moves. The only thing he does is speed rush. For that reason, I do think he is a better fit at outside linebacker, because he does have ability in coverage. I think there are lots of better available pass rushers.

I don't know about others, but I've been following Jordan longer than probably anyone on this board, and I've consistently said that I would never project him as a full time DE for the Pats, or try to bulk him up and make him one, and that his value isn't primarily as a pass rusher. He's a space player. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

The thing I have a tough time wrapping my head around is, well, how is Jordan more valuable than say, Jamie Collins? People say Jordan has awesome length and height. As much as I love length, it's only useful if you know how to use your hands to shed off blocks. Until he learns something, anything at all, about hand usage, his height is more of a disadvantage, at least as a pass rusher, because he can't get low enough to get good leverage against offensive tackles. By comparison, Collins played both linebacker and defensive end this year (Southern Miss's base defense alternates between a 3-3-5 and a 4-2-5 depending on Collins). He got 10 sacks this year (well more than Jordan). He may not be as tall as Jordan, but Jordan's height doesn't matter since he knows nothing about hand usage. Collins can actually do something against the run (stats are by no means perfect, but 44 tackles compared to 92 tackles is kind of a big deal). Collins has mediocre quickness but great change of direction skills, which translates well in coverage. Although Jordan's height is nice in coverage, Collins is by no means too short to cover tight ends at 6'3. And athletically, they're basically identical. Collins is 240lbs and runs a 4.65. Jordan is 243lbs and runs a 4.68. So tell me: what does Jordan have that Collins doesn't?

Collins is an intriguing prospect and I have no problem with liking his athleticism, but he's 6' 2.5" so he doesn't have anywhere near Jordan's length (Jordan is probably a full 4" taller, which is significant in coverage), and I don't believe he's been used in nearly as many ways Jordan has, against nearly the same level of competition. Again, I have no problem with liking Collins as a prospect, but I don't see him as the kind of guy who is going to create mismatches the way Jordan will. JMHO.

 

[Off The Grid]

"Rivalries"???

We're not in competition, here.

Actually we are. Mackenzie is a Bengals fan.

You completely miss the Point.

And him being a fan of another team hardly makes us "rivals."

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

You completely miss the Point.

And him being a fan of another team hardly makes us "rivals."

It was supposed to be a joke. I should added one of there guys

 

[mayoclinic]

]Collins is an intriguing prospect and I have no problem with liking his athleticism, but he's 6' 2.5" so he doesn't have anywhere near Jordan's length (Jordan is probably a full 4" taller, which is significant in coverage), and I don't believe he's been used in nearly as many ways Jordan has, against nearly the same level of competition. Again, I have no problem with liking Collins as a prospect, but I don't see him as the kind of guy who is going to create mismatches the way Jordan will. JMHO.

There are plenty of 6'2.5" 240" athletic coverage guys. They are not to be sneezed at, but hardly unique. 6'7" guys who can play in space don't grow on trees. If you want a comparison for Dion Jordan here's one: Ted Hendricks.