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If PSU gets the Death Penalty What Happens to O'Brien?


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the most powerful men at Penn St. failed to anything about the child molesting for 14 years

here's the ESPN link...read this and watch the clip...unreal..

Joe Paterno's statue to remain at Penn State, sources say - ESPN

read THIS rationalization...

"You can't let people stampede you into making a rash decision," a trustee said. "The statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad that he did."

That's pretty specious logic right there...almost as if there is a case of mass delusion...weird
 
the most powerful men at Penn St. failed to anything about the child molesting for 14 years

here's the ESPN link...read this and watch the clip...unreal..

Joe Paterno's statue to remain at Penn State, sources say - ESPN

read THIS rationalization...

"You can't let people stampede you into making a rash decision," a trustee said. "The statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad that he did."

That's pretty specious logic right there...almost as if there is a case of mass delusion...weird
In fairness to Penn State, they have a recent history of standing around and doing nothing. Why rock that boat now?
 
yeah...right...they should probably give Sandusky a suspended sentence...and 20 years of community service...to be served out as a Boy Scout Troop Leader...makes sense...
 
sure, keep the statue. Turn his head to the side though, so that he is looking the other way - just like the past decade.
 
sure, keep the statue. Turn his head to the side though, so that he is looking the other way - just like the past decade.


Best quote I saw was on another board that suggested moving the statue from Penn State to the State Pen so Joe could watch over Sandusky the way he did at Happy Valley, without saying a word...
FWIW Penn State is in an isolated part of Pennsylvania and it is essentially a "company town" with a cult-like mentality the "we are Penn State". It was Joe who put it on the map and football uber alle. Many still don't get it and defend Joe to no end. It's disgusting as he knew what was going on and let it happen to preserve his legacy and the football program, that's it in a nutshell.
 
Why would anybody let their kids go to unhappy valley is beyond me.

It's still a good academic school with great professors, a beautiful campus, and engaging student life. Plus it's a state university, which generally means lower tuition. The administration may be effed, and football has gone to their heads a bit too much, but when it comes down to it, you can't just pass up the opportunity to go to a school like that, especially if it's better than your other options.

Source: My cousin goes there. She's quite embarrassed by the whole ordeal, but it didn't really affect her in any direct way.
 
It's still a good academic school with great professors, a beautiful campus, and engaging student life. Plus it's a state university, which generally means lower tuition. The administration may be effed, and football has gone to their heads a bit too much, but when it comes down to it, you can't just pass up the opportunity to go to a school like that, especially if it's better than your other options.

Source: My cousin goes there. She's quite embarrassed by the whole ordeal, but it didn't really affect her in any direct way.

I doubt it's standing remains at it's current level. This has to have a pretty pervasive effect on the school and it's ability to draw students in the next few years.
 
to play devil's advocate, Joe Paterno did a lot of good in his years as head coach that directly effected the people in State College, which is why they might be quicker to defend Paterno than others outside that community. That being said this definably does taint his legacy, I am disgusted by the entire situation.
 
to play devil's advocate, Joe Paterno did a lot of good in his years as head coach that directly effected the people in State College, which is why they might be quicker to defend Paterno than others outside that community. That being said this definably does taint his legacy, I am disgusted by the entire situation.

No offense but I hate this argument. No human being can do enough to in his or her lifetime to get a pass for essentially covering up and condoning child rape. For me this doesn't taint his legacy it defines it.
 
sure, keep the statue. Turn his head to the side though, so that he is looking the other way - just like the past decade.

I hope a HUGE flock of pidgeons swarm in on that statue and Sh!t all over it,just like he Sh!t on young boys lives for a decade :mad:
 
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No offense but I hate this argument. No human being can do enough to in his or her lifetime to get a pass for essentially covering up and condoning child rape. For me this doesn't taint his legacy it defines it.
We're in agreement Tyrone. I'm usually in the one mistake shouldn't define a person if they've lived a life of value and social contribution, however, this is heinous and failed to protect our most valuable asset; our children.
 
No offense but I hate this argument. No human being can do enough to in his or her lifetime to get a pass for essentially covering up and condoning child rape. For me this doesn't taint his legacy it defines it.

I won't speak for Avenger, but I think his point was that the closer people are to a situation, the harder it is for their opinion of someone to change. I consider my father to be a great great man, and have thought so for my entire life. If someone suddenly told me he covered up for a pedophile, it would take me a while to even believe it, despite evidence. It's not always easy to just say, "Oh, I guess I was wrong about this man I thought I knew for over 30 years."

That said, the majority of people defending JoPa, didn't actually KNOW him. They were worshipping an idol for all intents and purposes. They loved the IDEA of JoPa, which makes the whole thing so much creepier.
 
I don't know what his contract says, but assuming it keeps him on at full salary and benefits for the duration of the death penalty, well, then he has a decision to make.

In that case, he could either jump to another team as NCAA HC or NFL Coordinator, saving the University the cost of keeping him around with, literally and by NCAA mandate, "nothing to do." Alternatively, he could take a long paid vacation, during which time he might want to supervise the tearing down and rebuilding of those showers.

If his contract allows the University to release him, then clearly he would look to coach another NCAA team or return to the NFL as a Coordinator.
 
BTW, listening to EEI right now and Shepard is going off on PSU big time...seems that the board of trustees have come out and vehemently declared that Joe Paterno's statue will stay where it is ...they say a lifetime of achievement should not be trashed because of a lapse in judgement...I really have to wonder what the hell is in the water over there in Pennsylvania


I read that, they need to get rid of the Board of Trustees.

The DP would hurt O'Brien and the players, OTOH the Board of Trustees just rolls along, they and the administration were a part of the problem along with Paterno.

The idea that they would make Paterno a non person in Happy Valley after what happened is ridiculous.
 
I doubt it's standing remains at it's current level. This has to have a pretty pervasive effect on the school and it's ability to draw students in the next few years.

You're overstating the case.

Really, it's not going to have that direct impact on academics (i.e. students not going there, alumni refusing to donate). ain't gonna happen. For most middle class families, a public education is the only option, and there are limited number of seats available.
 
There is a lot at stake here than football. That's why as a PSU alum, I can care less about the football program.

For a variety of reasons, I think this is more about CYA and lawyers and costs/benefits than it is about football.

Here are the first 2 reasons:

1. Sandusky was reported to police and child welfare in 1998 by a PSU Veep. This was while he was still coach.

2. When the Sandusky pedophile story first broke in February of 2011, the fact that he had committed rape at Clinton Cty HS, it never made the national news. I think the media is focusing on the PSU cover-up. If it were only about Sandusky's crimes, I don't think people would be that interested. After all, no one picked up the story of Sandusky's crimes in February of 2011, and the story of what he did in Clinton Cty is just as sick and deplorable as what he did in 2001.

Of course, there's no way to know how it would have gone in 2001. Just because the media took no interest in Sandusky's crimes in early 2011 does not mean it would not have taken interest in 2001.

Here are some other factors that haven't been reported much in the media.

Because of the Freeh leaks, everyone is pretty certain that Paterno overturned the planned strategy to turn Sandusky over to the authorities. Yet, if you read the exhibits at the end of the Freeh report, you will see that just two days after the rape, the President and VP wrote a handwritten memo in which the strategy was already in place. It even said, "Unless Sandusky confesses, they will report him." But first they would confront Sandusky. The leaks skew this timeline and put the onus on Paterno. The memo was written on 2/12/01 whereas the Curley/Paterno meeting happened on 2/26/01. The chief perpetrators, Paterno and Spanier, were already in agreement fully two weeks before. And this was after talking to university lawyers who also seem to have been in on the cover-up.

Why is this important?

First, Spanier covered up other child abuse cases against professors. This shows that the CYA mode he was in was more about liabilities (as he wrote in an email). This was his modus operandi even when it didn't involve football.

Second, if you get into BOT politics, it's even worse since there is a close group of people in the center that freeze out all other (elected) BOT members, and those at the center are political appointees. Sharp knives are out. Faculty are rightly concerned that there will be a new power play now putting decision-making in the hands of the BOT, and you will see scandals of the sort we recently saw at U. Illinois and U. Virginia, where political appointees try to take over the curriculum and end programs in favor of their own pet projects.

Not to mention the fact that the governor (Corbett) had been locking heads with Spanier in a power play over control of PSU before the Sandusky story broke.

I don't want to get into conspiracies but I do admit that in the back of my mind, the timing of Corbett ramping up the investigation into Sandusky (remember, Corbett was the prosecutorial bigwig in Centre County at the time of Sandusky's abuses, and he waited 2 full years after the Clinton County revelations in 2008 to put more than a single assistant--a newbie--on the case) coincided precisely with his battles with Spanier over control of both funding for PSU and the PSU branch campus system. Spanier has been totally emasculated. BUT, he still has his job. Corbett hasn't prosecuted him. The BOT, which now takes directions from Corbett, hasn't fired his former enemy Spanier. Sometimes it's better to keep your enemies close.

There's more to this story.

I know why most sports fans are focusing on the football side. I get it. I'm in favor of the death penalty for football too. But there is a much bigger side to this than football, and it's about the liabilities that administrations weigh when there are accusations, and it's also about educatin and state politics and business. Football is a sideshow. So yes, give it the DP, but the real game is being played elsewhere. There have been cover-ups of child abuse scandals recently at U. Michigan Medical school and cover-ups of murders at E. Michigan University, a child sex abuse scandal at Syracuse that also has elements of cover-up. These things are happening both inside and outside of sports, and the common thing is an interest in not being sued.
 
I won't speak for Avenger, but I think his point was that the closer people are to a situation, the harder it is for their opinion of someone to change. I consider my father to be a great great man, and have thought so for my entire life. If someone suddenly told me he covered up for a pedophile, it would take me a while to even believe it, despite evidence. It's not always easy to just say, "Oh, I guess I was wrong about this man I thought I knew for over 30 years."

That said, the majority of people defending JoPa, didn't actually KNOW him. They were worshipping an idol for all intents and purposes. They loved the IDEA of JoPa, which makes the whole thing so much creepier.

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head in regards to my point.
 
There is a lot at stake here than football. That's why as a PSU alum, I can care less about the football program.

For a variety of reasons, I think this is more about CYA and lawyers and costs/benefits than it is about football.

Here are the first 2 reasons:

1. Sandusky was reported to police and child welfare in 1998 by a PSU Veep. This was while he was still coach.

2. When the Sandusky pedophile story first broke in February of 2011, the fact that he had committed rape at Clinton Cty HS, it never made the national news. I think the media is focusing on the PSU cover-up. If it were only about Sandusky's crimes, I don't think people would be that interested. After all, no one picked up the story of Sandusky's crimes in February of 2011, and the story of what he did in Clinton Cty is just as sick and deplorable as what he did in 2001.

Of course, there's no way to know how it would have gone in 2001. Just because the media took no interest in Sandusky's crimes in early 2011 does not mean it would not have taken interest in 2001.

Here are some other factors that haven't been reported much in the media.

Because of the Freeh leaks, everyone is pretty certain that Paterno overturned the planned strategy to turn Sandusky over to the authorities. Yet, if you read the exhibits at the end of the Freeh report, you will see that just two days after the rape, the President and VP wrote a handwritten memo in which the strategy was already in place. It even said, "Unless Sandusky confesses, they will report him." But first they would confront Sandusky. The leaks skew this timeline and put the onus on Paterno. The memo was written on 2/12/01 whereas the Curley/Paterno meeting happened on 2/26/01. The chief perpetrators, Paterno and Spanier, were already in agreement fully two weeks before. And this was after talking to university lawyers who also seem to have been in on the cover-up.

Why is this important?

First, Spanier covered up other child abuse cases against professors. This shows that the CYA mode he was in was more about liabilities (as he wrote in an email). This was his modus operandi even when it didn't involve football.

Second, if you get into BOT politics, it's even worse since there is a close group of people in the center that freeze out all other (elected) BOT members, and those at the center are political appointees. Sharp knives are out. Faculty are rightly concerned that there will be a new power play now putting decision-making in the hands of the BOT, and you will see scandals of the sort we recently saw at U. Illinois and U. Virginia, where political appointees try to take over the curriculum and end programs in favor of their own pet projects.

Not to mention the fact that the governor (Corbett) had been locking heads with Spanier in a power play over control of PSU before the Sandusky story broke.

I don't want to get into conspiracies but I do admit that in the back of my mind, the timing of Corbett ramping up the investigation into Sandusky (remember, Corbett was the prosecutorial bigwig in Centre County at the time of Sandusky's abuses, and he waited 2 full years after the Clinton County revelations in 2008 to put more than a single assistant--a newbie--on the case) coincided precisely with his battles with Spanier over control of both funding for PSU and the PSU branch campus system. Spanier has been totally emasculated. BUT, he still has his job. Corbett hasn't prosecuted him. The BOT, which now takes directions from Corbett, hasn't fired his former enemy Spanier. Sometimes it's better to keep your enemies close.

There's more to this story.

I know why most sports fans are focusing on the football side. I get it. I'm in favor of the death penalty for football too. But there is a much bigger side to this than football, and it's about the liabilities that administrations weigh when there are accusations, and it's also about educatin and state politics and business. Football is a sideshow. So yes, give it the DP, but the real game is being played elsewhere. There have been cover-ups of child abuse scandals recently at U. Michigan Medical school and cover-ups of murders at E. Michigan University, a child sex abuse scandal at Syracuse that also has elements of cover-up. These things are happening both inside and outside of sports, and the common thing is an interest in not being sued.

Thank you. As a recent PSU alum, I'm appalled, devastated, and disgusted by what happened. But I'm glad you pointed out what many people seem to ignore, that the administration was still in control of this matter from the beginning, and they COMPLETELY sold out, turning a blind eye, for one reason or another. I'm ENRAGED at the memos that have leaked out detailing their strategy to do nothing about Sandusky. I WANT SPANIER'S HEAD ON A PLATTER!

For those who can't seem to understand why Joe is still so revered in State College, it has less to do with coaching and football and more to do with the amount of time, money, and effort he dedicated to the university. The library on campus is named after Joe and his wife because they dedicated over $5 million dollars to its construction. That's just one example over a 50 year span.

But more important than the money and recognition Joe brought to the school, he always talked of being the best possible person you can be. Always take the moral high ground, hold yourself to a higher than what's merely acceptable.

Although it appears Joe failed in the worst way possible in this situation, and that cannot and will not be excused, the reason those in State College and graduates of PSU still revere the man is because they truly believe in the IDEALS he laid forth.

I personally feel betrayed, and it hurts to see people think that PSU truly places football higher than morals. Those in charge were COMPLETE COWARDS who placed their own priorities ahead of what's right (and in this instance, that probably includes Joe, but wait for the perjury trials to see what really went on behind the scenes). That being said, this scandal doesn't represent US.

$10 million raised for kids with pediatric cancer last year is what represents US.

We Are...
Home | THON.org - Conquering Childhood Cancer

Just some context for you guys.
 
Best quote I saw was on another board that suggested moving the statue from Penn State to the State Pen so Joe could watch over Sandusky the way he did at Happy Valley, without saying a word...
FWIW Penn State is in an isolated part of Pennsylvania and it is essentially a "company town" with a cult-like mentality the "we are Penn State". It was Joe who put it on the map and football uber alle. Many still don't get it and defend Joe to no end. It's disgusting as he knew what was going on and let it happen to preserve his legacy and the football program, that's it in a nutshell.

I'm of the belief that if the PSU campus/stadium was closer to Harrisburg than being a company town in the middle of nowhere, in which Spanier & Paterno controlled the police & press, then perhaps Sandusky's crime spree could've been discovered, stopped & prosecuted earlier, and some kids saved as a result.
 
I'm of the belief that if the PSU campus/stadium was closer to Harrisburg than being a company town in the middle of nowhere, in which Spanier & Paterno controlled the police & press, then perhaps Sandusky's crime spree could've been discovered, stopped & prosecuted earlier, and some kids saved as a result.

Williamsport,PA which is not far from State College (about 60 miles east) just arrested a man who was accused of hanging out in a school parking lot and sexually assaulting several boys.....

I am about 2 1/2 hours drive east of middle PA and know it's pretty bad over there.
 
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