Greg Williams Speech before the 49ers game

[voluntarysaftey]

he should be banned for life.

 

[Wolfpack]

And anyone even mildly familiar with criminal law knows this is something an average man would be imprisoned for.

A lot of things go on in sporting arenas that would land any one of us in jail if we engaged in the same behavior. Two guys get into a fight and exchange blows in the stands and security and the police step in and oftentimes arrest them. If the same thing happens on the field (or on the ice), and everyone (including the policemen assigned at the stadium) just watch.

 

[chumpchange]

A lot of things go on in sporting arenas that would land any one of us in jail if we engaged in the same behavior. Two guys get into a fight and exchange blows in the stands and security and the police step in and oftentimes arrest them. If the same thing happens on the field (or on the ice), and everyone (including the policemen assigned at the stadium) just watch.

And there have been many successful lawsuits over fist fighting on the field of play, because a fist fight is not something any football player engages in in the ordinary course of play and so he does not 'assume the risk' of being punched when he plays football (like he doesn't assume the risk of being the victim of an organized pay-for-injury ring).

If the punched player wants to press charges, he's got a great case. It's just that most players decline to pursue it (like Kurt Warner declines to pursue this). That doesn't make it legal.

 

[Off The Grid]

Did he instruct/incentivize dirty play? Sure, he talks about giving opposing players concussions yet no one bats an eyebrow when Ray Lewis tells his guys that "anyone who touches the ball gets knocked out today".

The 'how' is critically important.

A lot of things go on in sporting arenas that would land any one of us in jail if we engaged in the same behavior. Two guys get into a fight and exchange blows in the stands and security and the police step in and oftentimes arrest them. If the same thing happens on the field (or on the ice), and everyone (including the policemen assigned at the stadium) just watch.

I just love folks like you two, who argue that notional precedent justifies vile, criminal behavior.

Good luck with that.

 

[BradyManny]

A lot of things go on in sporting arenas that would land any one of us in jail if we engaged in the same behavior. Two guys get into a fight and exchange blows in the stands and security and the police step in and oftentimes arrest them. If the same thing happens on the field (or on the ice), and everyone (including the policemen assigned at the stadium) just watch.

But this didn't happen in the sporting arena.

It happened in a meeting room. Big difference.

I think everyone understands that what happens on the field is influenced by adrenaline, and a lot of passion & emotion that can cause people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do.

Greg Williams, while in the confines of a team meeting, instructed his players to go after an opponent's ACL, and his head - and offered them bonus money to do so. None of that is OK.

The guy is scum. Just consider what a low-life he is - if a Saint player were to get released and picked up by the Niners, and suddenly he's wearing a different jersey; would Greg Williams suddenly be hoping that they have a season or career ending injury? What does that say that these players are to him? Hardly more than cattle? That's just stupid. The guy's head isn't right.

It's way different than Ray Lewis saying something in the heat of the moment. There's no comparison.

This whole issue would get a lot simpler if people reconciled the fact that you can have good, hard football plays without dirty play.

Everyone wants to classify everything as black and white now - and its not possible.

 

[Deus Irae]

....Again there is a HUGE difference between having a players' pool for achieving a football goal, like a score or turnover, and putting a bounty on another player. Its OK to try and put a beating on someone. Its OK to try and establish a physical dominance on another team. It is NOT OK to attempt to injure someone by attacking his ACL, or head...

Amen.......

 

[chumpchange]

But this didn't happen in the sporting arena.

It happened in a meeting room. Big difference.

I think everyone understands that what happens on the field is influenced by adrenaline, and a lot of passion & emotion that can cause people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do.

Greg Williams, while in the confines of a team meeting, instructed his players to go after an opponent's ACL, and his head - and offered them bonus money to do so. None of that is OK.

The guy is scum. Just consider what a low-life he is - if a Saint player were to get released and picked up by the Niners, and suddenly he's wearing a different jersey; would Greg Williams suddenly be hoping that they have a season or career ending injury? What does that say that these players are to him? Hardly more than cattle? That's just stupid. The guy's head isn't right.

It's way different than Ray Lewis saying something in the heat of the moment. There's no comparison.

This whole issue would get a lot simpler if people reconciled the fact that you can have good, hard football plays without dirty play.

Everyone wants to classify everything as black and white now - and its not possible.

That is a great point and great comparison, and exactly when I loathe men like Williams. He's a mercenary, with no code of ethics and no loyalty. He'd injure any of his friends and former players if they were on the other side.

Have you read the text of the audio in its entirety? What he encourages genuinely sounds sociopathic. The guy puts on this veneer of being a bad a** to look hard in front of his players and it makes him look sad, ridiculous, and psycho.

 

[Deus Irae]

And there have been many successful lawsuits over fist fighting on the field of play, because a fist fight is not something any football player engages in in the ordinary course of play and so he does not 'assume the risk' of being punched when he plays football (like he doesn't assume the risk of being the victim of an organized pay-for-injury ring).

If the punched player wants to press charges, he's got a great case. It's just that most players decline to pursue it (like Kurt Warner declines to pursue this). That doesn't make it legal.

Depends on your interpretation of "many", I suppose.

 

[BradyManny]

Yeah, some clown making an over the top speech is a lil different that being "told to do it".

Being "told to do it" would cross the line into official policy. The game tape indicates:

No action was specifically taken to take out the ACL. It's not that hard to blow out someone's knee if it was really one's intent.

Let's try this again. We're having a specific conversation about Greg Williams. Not the players.

What does the players inability or lack of desire to carry out Greg Williams plan - which is debatable, you would have to watch the tape,and we can point to the Saints-Vikes NFCCG as a specific instance where they did carry out his plans and bragged as such - have to do with Greg Williams' instructions?

Nothing. Whether the players went out and blew out 53 knees or 0, his actions are no more or less reprehensible.

Are you arguing Greg Williams didn't want his plans carried out? Because the audio is rather clear, his instructions are plain, his offer of paid bonus is on record.

If the players ignored him, all it says is that they are athletes with bigger things on their mind then trying to please their apparently psychotic coach, like winning a ball game.

And not only did Williams instruct them to do it - he offered them a bonus ("first one's on me.") So, I guess I'm missing the part where he didn't tell them to do this.

 

[chumpchange]

Depends on your interpretation of "many", I suppose.

I mean successful lawsuits at every level of play from pee wee to high school to college to professional, over many, many years.

This is very well established law. It ain't new.

 

[Deus Irae]

I mean successful lawsuits at every level of play from pee wee to high school to college to professional, over many, many years.

This is very well established law. It ain't new.

How many successful suits over a punch have been filed by top level (NFL/NHL) football players and hockey players in the last 10 years?

 

[chumpchange]

How many successful suits over a punch have been filed by top level (NFL/NHL) football players and hockey players in the last 10 years?

I have no idea; google it. I would guess a relative few because pro athletes tend not to pursue litigation over a punch, as I've said several times. But declining to pursue it doesn't make it legal.

And of course, having one's concussed head targeted for repeat brain damage or having one's ACL destroyed for money is on the tad more serious end of the illegal contact spectrum.

 

[lurker1965]

Players have been trying to injure their opponents since before Pacino knew how to scream, they know of their specific injuries and try their best to exploit them.

All Williams did was speak the unspoken truth, and for that crime he'll be destroyed.

Um, the "no bounties" rule is like from the 1940s or something. That is his crime not some stuff you made up to sound tough.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I just love folks like you two, who argue that notional precedent justifies vile, criminal behavior.

Good luck with that.

Ok, what specific crime did he commit?

 

[SVN]

For all the rhetoric you would think that was the 85 bears defense. They were average at best ...

 

[Snake Eyes]

Um, the "no bounties" rule is like from the 1940s or something. That is his crime not some stuff you made up to sound tough.

Williams violated the leagues rule, I think there's a ton of hypocrisy in this situation, but they're fully within their rights to punish him. Not really sure where you're going with this.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I have no idea; google it. I would guess a relative few because pro athletes tend not to pursue litigation over a punch, as I've said several times. But declining to pursue it doesn't make it legal.

And of course, having one's concussed head targeted for repeat brain damage or having one's ACL destroyed for money is on the tad more serious end of the illegal contact spectrum.

You do realize that you don't need to hit someone's head in order to give them a concussion?

Steve Young was concussed like crazy on the hit that ended his career, do you think this was a dirty hit?

Steve Young's Last play - YouTube

 

[Ivan]

Ok, what specific crime did he commit?

I would say that a boss who pays someone to hurt someone has committed a criminal offense. It is most likely a crime of solicitation.

 

[chumpchange]

I would say that a boss who pays someone to hurt someone has committed a criminal offense. It is most likely a crime of solicitation.

You've got it.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I would say that a boss who pays someone to hurt someone has committed a criminal offense. It is most likely a crime of solicitation.

Since the players are voluntarily participating in a game, in which violent physical contact is an integral part, solicitation would likely not apply.

If a manager at the mortgage company paid his employee to tackle the manager of the Real Estate company then you'd have something.