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Greg Williams Speech before the 49ers game


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I know but its my team, its a custom here. Good and bad. we support them and represent them. And we should be ashamed.

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Well you should not be proud of it, but on the other hand I agree with Deus in that you did nothing personally wrong and there fore should carry no guilt or shame in this matter.

There was an issue, it has been fixed, so move on.
 
Goodell should ban Williams for life. That audio is sickening.
 
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Well you should not be proud of it, but on the other hand I agree with Deus in that you did nothing personally wrong and there fore should carry no guilt or shame in this matter.

There was an issue, it has been fixed, so move on.

Nice of you to say, but we are the representatives of the Saints. WE welcome other teams into our Dome and try to make them feel welcome. WE love other fans and try to talk them when they are here. We love this game. Its not as easy as something for us to move on. We are in love and connected to this team, and should bear the same responsibility for there actions.

Maybe we wanted a SB so bad we turned a blind eye

We did something wrong, and they are right about it. Its a culture shock for us. But your very kind, thank you. But, we are responsible also. We could have stopped the culture , and didn't .
 
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But that would be a different animal to me--if he'd just been talking a good game and shooting his mouth off to fire up the players, but he actually offered his players money and PAID them when they made a hit injuring another player. That, to me, is what separates this from the typical way coaches talk up their players. Paying someone under-the-table compensation specifically to hurt another person in derivation of the rules of the game is simply criminal.

Let me ask you this, do you think a player would be angry if they were to learn the opposing player, who delivered a clean but hard hit, was thrown extra cash by the coach afterwards?

OTOH, suppose a player was concussed out of the game because of an absolutely dirty hit, yet he gets no bonus from his coach? How does the injured player feel?

If one is injured through legitimate and hard contact that's simply part of the game, I don't think cash rewards are relevant, I wouldnt hold it against a guy if he laid me out through a hard hit, he's doing his job, dirty play is something different altogether and that's where the focus should be. Unfortunately I think this incident will result in less prosecution of dirty play but rather more scrutiny on the language of incentives within player contracts.
 
That speech makes me wanna go out and ride some ponies :rocker:
 
If one is injured through legitimate and hard contact that's simply part of the game, I don't think cash rewards are relevant, I wouldnt hold it against a guy if he laid me out through a hard hit, he's doing his job, dirty play is something different altogether and that's where the focus should be. Unfortunately I think this incident will result in less prosecution of dirty play but rather more scrutiny on the language of incentives within player contracts.

The change of this is that football and the NFL needs to decide what it's culture is.

Across all modern sports, there is a code in which you do not attempt to purposely injure other players. Since football is the most violent sport, it is the hardest sport for this code to live in. But it still should.

Respect for one's opponent and a proper perspective on things like player health are fundamental things that separate us from the times of Gladiators and blood sports. Greg Williams is missing these things. He's a neanderthal.
 
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Nice of you to say, but we are the representatives of the Saints. WE welcome other teams into our Dome and try to make them feel welcome. WE love other fans and try to talk them when they are here. We love this game. Its not as easy as something for us to move on. We are in love and connected to this team, and should bear the same responsibility for there actions.

Maybe we wanted a SB so bad we turned a blind eye

We did something wrong, and they are right about it. Its a culture shock for us. But your very kind, thank you. But, we are responsible also. We could have stopped the culture , and didn't .

You're so likeable that it makes me hate you. :D
 
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The change of this is that football and the NFL needs to decide what it's culture is.

Across all modern sports, there is a code in which you do not attempt to purposely injure other players. Since football is the most violent sport, it is the hardest sport for this code to live in. But it still should.

Respect for one's opponent and a proper perspective on things like player health are fundamental things that separate us from the times of Gladiators and blood sports. Greg Williams is missing these things. He's a neanderthal.

Here's the thing, are you going to actually change the culture or will you simply give the impression of a culture change with the core being exactly the same? I think that if most players had a choice between a loss in a critical game and a win that required another player to be injured they'd pick the later in a heartbeat. I might very well be wrong but that's what I've gathered from my observations.
 
saintsreport is full of new comers and bandwagon fans. blackandgold is where a lot of the old time fans talk, and don't be sorry. I apologize theres no way you could know.

Saintsreport has been full of ******s for a few years now. All of the rational posters seem to post in the subforums where thought it allowed and not in the main forum where its all "rah rah we're number 1" and if you say anything slightly negative you get jumped on and or banned.
 
Here's the thing, are you going to actually change the culture or will you simply give the impression of a culture change with the core being exactly the same? I think that if most players had a choice between a loss in a critical game and a win that required another player to be injured they'd pick the later in a heartbeat. I might very well be wrong but that's what I've gathered from my observations.

What will change the culture across all levels of football is Goodell's punishments, which are as harsh as it gets and sends a clear message that anyone promoting injuring players deliberately will be out of a job. I would imagine that any coach engaged in these practices will stop them immediately and those with knowledge of such programs will shut up about them unless they are looking to file suits against them. People can hate on Goodell all they want but the Williams and Payton suspensions are a good message to all coaches and programs, there is no place for deliberately injuring people in football and those who engage in it will be on the outside looking in. That in no way sissifies football or turns it into flag football it simply tells players that the hits must be legal, and football is nasty enough that it doesn't need anything more than that to make it a really violent game.
 
For years, football players have used every military connotation known to man. However, an NFL playoff game is hardly Omaha Beach, Iwo Jima, or Gettysburg.

It would be better to worry less about talking about ACL's and more about what actually happened.

After years of Hines Ward, how did he "play the right way"?

Yesterday, on NFLN, the ex-head coach of the RAVENS, Brian Billick was "sick" over the audio?.....really?

Before, the NFCCG, the Giants openly talked about targetting Kyle Williams. Do Giants players actually track concussions?
 
Here's the thing, are you going to actually change the culture or will you simply give the impression of a culture change with the core being exactly the same? I think that if most players had a choice between a loss in a critical game and a win that required another player to be injured they'd pick the later in a heartbeat. I might very well be wrong but that's what I've gathered from my observations.

That's totally fair - and I agree most athletes feel that way at some point. I've never played football, but on a much lesser violent basketball court, I would've done some nasty things to opponents to ensure victory. So I can only imagine what goes through the head of a linebacker when he goes after a quarterback.

But there are rules in place to penalize players from acting on these instincts, and to curb them from doing it going forward.

When a coach consciously, cooly and premeditatively circumvents these rules, and the fundamental notion of respecting one's opponents - that's pretty wrong.

When Williams talks about going after ACLs and heads - I mean, that's out there. He honestly could be facing criminal charges for that stuff. If in any other business you planned ending the career or season of a competitor, well, you'd be f**ked.


The problem is that - the perception in football is that anything that a man can do physically should be allowed within the rules.

The obvious issue with that is that a man can kill another man with his own body - especially now when you have 6'4, 270 men who run 4.6 40s.

So we have rules. The perception and rules are at a disconnect. The culture needs to shift so that the two align.

Both sides of the argument are making that difficult. When you got Ray Lewis and James Harrison saying one thing that's too extreme and you got reactionary media on the other side that's saying something too extreme - you don't get anywhere.

Middle ground should be sought.
 
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Kyle Williams's father stated as much--that this was criminal and should be taken up by the courts.

I don't think that Kyle Williams was ever actually injured, but if I were one of the guys both targeted with a bounty and then actually injured (like Kurt Warner's knockout), I'd be dragging Gregg Williams, Payton, the Saints owner and the entire organization into court--both criminal and civil.

Warner's probably too classy a guy to get involved with litigation, but if he did, he would most certainly be awarded damages.
 
Kyle Williams's father stated as much--that this was criminal and should be taken up by the courts.

I don't think that Kyle Williams was ever actually injured, but if I were one of the guys both targeted with a bounty and then actually injured (like Kurt Warner's knockout), I'd be dragging Gregg Williams, Payton, the Saints owner and the entire organization into court--both criminal and civil.

Warner's probably too classy a guy to get involved with litigation, but if he did, he would most certainly be awarded damages.

How are you going to arrest them?

Considering this father is the GM for the White Sox and had Ozzie Guillen as his manager.......What do you think would stop some player that got beaned from "hauling" him into crimminal court?
 
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How are you going to arrest them?

Same as always--file a police report, present it to the magistrate, and have the magistrate swear out a warrant for assault. Or conspiracy to commit grievous bodily injury.

Or better yet, do it all in federal court, since this all crossed state lines obviously.
 
I'm surprised some self righteous, up his own ass, teetering senator hasn't weighed in on this yet.
 
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Same as always--file a police report, present it to the magistrate, and have the magistrate swear out a warrant for assault. Or conspiracy to commit grievous bodily injury.

Or better yet, do it all in federal court, since this all crossed state lines obviously.

Hmmmm....OK......Considering the Warner hits did not elicit a flag and Warner has already publicly stated he didn't feel targeted......is it reasonable to assume someone has been watching too much Law and Order?

So you think Kyle Wiliams' father should also get this from every beaned player since he has been GM of the White Sox?

I hear an ex Pennsylvania Senator is looking for work and has displayed an interest in this kinda thing.
 
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Hmmmm....OK......Considering the Warner hits did not elicit a flag and Warner has already publicly stated he didn't feel targeted......is it reasonable to assume someone has been watching too much Law and Order?

So you think Kyle Wiliams' father should also get this from every beaned player since he has been GM of the White Sox?

I hear an ex Pennsylvania Senator is looking for work and has displayed an interest in this kinda thing.

Warner didn't feel targeted but he WAS targeted. That's pretty clear in the report. Like I said, he's probably not the type for litigation so his response never surprised me.

And, no, of course I don't think every injured player could bring charges for being beaned. That's the nature of the game and the risk you take.

But what's different here--legally and morally--is the element of payment not for doing what you have to do to bring a runner down, but for specifically injuring another person.

That's outside the rules of the game that these players signed up for; it's not a risk they legally assumed, and so it's no different from hiring some guy on the street to beat up your target.
 
As others have noted, most of what Williams said in that speech was pretty routine even if a little juiced up. You can't condemn everything on that tape.

But he crossed the line 2 or 3 times, targeting the guy with the concussion and the comment about the ACL. That's really WAY over the line by any standard. Plus he referred to paying guys for it, which is his history that he already admitted to and was just warned about a couple of weeks earlier. So this guy really has a problem and should not be in coaching.
 
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