Idle thoughts - FA recap.....so far

[The-Hooded-One]

What is with the people doubting whether Lloyd can stretch the defense? He absolutely can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdBIJOadVzk

 

[patfanken]

Hopefully an undrafted free agent from the 2012 NFL Draft class will supplant Harrison.

Granted, on the surface, camp fodder is all he should be, but, Tip, aren't you curious as to why BB signed him a week into FA, before guys like Lloyd and Gregory? If he were simply "camp fodder", why not after the draft, or just before camp?

TE - free agency
3-4 DE - 2012 NFL Draft
3-4 OLB - 2012 NFL Draft
Free Safety - 2012 NFL Draft (3rd or 4th Round)
Strong Safety - 2012 NFL Draft
Cornerback - 2012 NFL Draft

I'd agree with this except for draft 2 Safeties in this draft. Draft one in the first 2 rounds. Wait until next year for the 2nd since it looks like it will be a much deeper draft for safeties.

My ideal draft would see our first 5 picks being Cox, Gilmore and Branch. Streeter, and Martin. Though now that we've added 2 FA WR's, maybe I wouldn't invest that high a pick to draft another

 

[patsfan13]

I do think Branch will be back to compete for a spot. IMO he would provide good depth.

 

[patfanken]

I think 3-4 OLB could be addressed partially by getting manny lawson in as our last 'big' FA. I say partially as I still think it should be address in the first 3 rounds of the draft. My next thought is can Woodhead, Vereen and Ridley handle the load or do we need another body of some sort? Or do we need to sign BJGE? I think we let those 3 see more carries.

I too thought Lawson would be a good prospect to be the next Vrabel/Ninkovich, but isn't that role now filled by Trevor Scott? I'd love BB to draft an DE/OLB prospect in the first round (Marcilous, Branch) but I'm not holding my breath.

As to the RBs - I want BJGE back on the team, but I'd only pay him to be primarily the GL/SY/depth RB, and I don't think that will do it for him. But its still a role that needs to be filled

 

[patfanken]

Pats still need to add a kick returner. Draftniks may want to isolate WRs or CBs with returner skills. If McCourty continues to struggle in '12...he could possibly assume the returner's job....Wasn't he a stud returner in college?

At RB...I'm still begging for BB to trade for Jonathan Stewart.......big back with pass catching skills....a true 3 down back. Teams must game plan for him coming out of the backfield ...His presence could really open up the center of the field.....unlike BJGE

Stewart WOULD be ideal, Borgy, but I don't think he'd fit the budget. What's his cap number this year? Still if BJGE walks, who out there would best fill the GL/SY/RB depth role in FA....that we could afford; Remember any money you spend on the RB position lessens the chances that Carter and/or Anderson can be resigned.

 

[Sfpat]

I too thought Lawson would be a good prospect to be the next Vrabel/Ninkovich, but isn't that role now filled by Trevor Scott? I'd love BB to draft an DE/OLB prospect in the first round (Marcilous, Branch) but I'm not holding my breath.

As to the RBs - I want BJGE back on the team, but I'd only pay him to be primarily the GL/SY/depth RB, and I don't think that will do it for him. But its still a role that needs to be filled

I don't think Scott has has made the team yet. He'll have to earn it in OTA's and camp. If someone else were to beat him out, BB would not be afraid to cut him (not saying he won't make the team but.....)

 

[patfanken]

I do think Branch will be back to compete for a spot. IMO he would provide good depth.

No question 13, but if he's back, even for the minimum, whats the cost. At most the Pats will keep only 5 WRs (not counting Slater). Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Gonzales, would seem to be locks. Now who do you keep. Branch, or that draftee everyone is calling for in the 2nd round. that could add true speed. Sure I'd give him a shot to come in and make the team, but I'm not paying him $2MM for the privilege. The vet minimum would be about half that. And off course maybe Gonzales won't stat healthy.

 

[mgteich]

We also need to add a blocking tight end and a safety from free agency. Fells is a good target.

I agree in choosing pass-rush help (Anderson and/or Carter) over Landry.

Ours I want to sign and why

Mark Anderson – Far exceeded any expectations. Not only did he give us exactly what we wanted from him as a situational pass rusher, when Carter went down, and his role expanded to running downs, he played better than expected..It also should be noted that during the playoffs he seemed to elevate his game. Because of his age and upside potential, if I could only sign one of the two of our DE FA's, it would be Anderson..


Andre Carter – He well deserved his All Pro selection.. Before his injury, he was the Pats defensive MVP or at least co-MVP with Vince. He could be one of those freaks who can last a couple of more years and be productive. He's a great leader, and role model for the locker room, and I think he wants to come back. I think though, we won't know Carter's fate until July.. It could be that they've already agreed to basic terms, but will hold off completing the deal to save wear and tear on his body this off season.

Ant Mouldin - I like his size. I thoughr he was decent this season, though it was telling that Moore past him on the depth chart. Still I though he did enough to deserve a shot at coming back on no risk prove it contract, and compete for a roster spot. I can't get out of my head that one play in the playoffs when he blew some receiver UP. Maybe HE can be the CB to adds coverage depth to the safety positon.

Ours that I'd pass on, unless they'd want to come back on an incentive laden ed, a non-guaranteed contract and compete for a roster spot.

Kevin Fauk

Deion Branch

Dan Koppen

Garry Guyton

Sean Ellis

Gerard Warren

Nate Jones

Note: I can see Gerard Warren as a guy who you can call in late August if injuries hit the DL.

FA's I still want to pursue (subject to cap space)

I'm pretty happy right now. Its certainly a lot more activity that I expected. BTW- anyone have an idea were we stand on the cap after all this activity.

I know some are hot on Landry coming. I don't think its worth the risk, especially after the Achilles injury. That's a tough one to come back from. I also think that winner of the Barrett, Iheadabu and Lockett competition, can adequately duplicate his SS skills. I won't hate it if he comes, but I'd rather spend that money on Anderson, and/or Carter.

So I'll leave the future FA wish list to you. Feel free to fill in the blanks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I do think Branch will be back to compete for a spot. IMO he would provide good depth.

Who else is going to teach the newbies how to conduct themselves in the system and how to connect with TFB...Ocho? Wes won't be around much before camp unless they get a deal done and he won't likely be focused on developing successors...

Branch is a proven role player within this system and excellent insurance if nothing else, as opposed to our last insurance policy who couldn't beat out Branch or Edelman or Underwood even down the stretch. I'd be stunned if he isn't back for that reason, and since he isn't going anywhere - at least any time soon if ever - and he's a veteran who knows this offense inside out he doesn't have to be re-signed until after the draft or in May when OTA's commence or even as camp opens (although I think they would want him in the building during the off season from a leadership standpoint). Will he be a bubble player or potential final cutdown? Maybe, but so will Ocho if he's even still here come camp time and so will Gonzalez be (pup candidate...) and Underwood (PS eligible which is what he is currently signed to).

 

[mgteich]

In the interest of full disclosure, we also have signed Love (ERFA) and Koutouvides (ST/LB).

.....so good .....in a kind of low key, low risk kind of way. We were certainly more active that I thought we'd be this early in the process. So here is were we are right now.

Signings – Ours

Wes Welker - WR/PR

Impact – We retain the most productive WR in the league for the last 5 years. It was pretty much no brainer. The real question is how long can he keep doing it, given his stature, age, and the amount of pounding he's taken constantly catching balls primarily in the middle of the field. My guess is he peaked last season, but is likely to have 2 more productive if declining years. IMHO any LT contract should be front loaded, so the team will be protected when he “hits the wall”

Tracey White – ST/LB

Impact – This generation's Larry Izzo – Glad to have him back. BUT, he should never be on the field for a regular defense except in the most dire emergency

Matthew Slater – ST/WR/DB

Impact - Maybe I'm wrong and HE'S this generation's Larry Izzo – An all pro quality special teamer, his versatility to play WR and DB in emergencies just adds to his value BUT like White, ONLY in emergencies

Dan Connolly – C/G

Impact – He was more than adequate as the Pats C last season and in my eyes earned the right to be the starter this season. I thought he was stronger at setting the middle of the pass protection. Less effective as a run blocker, But in situation where you have to pick one of 2 good players, I go younger and bigger. - The Dan Koppen era is over. Thanks for your contribution And the beer is on me over at Mary Anne's

(disclaimer:- In the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that I said the same thing about Matt Light after the Draft)

Signings – Theirs

Brandon Lloyd - WR

Impact – I think its going to be less than you think. He can have a great year (ie 55 catches, 800 yds, and 7 TD's) but I think most of that production is just going to reduce the catches and yds from the other mjor targets The reality is that it is highly unlikely that the Pats with throw for 5,200 yds next season. Lloyd's value is that he can offer a different kind of WR threat to the defenses we face. That he can be the guy who can beat physical press coverage constantly.. Hopefully he can “stretch the defense” as well, but I'm not sure he's that kind of receiver.

The other impact is since Ocho is under contract at a reduced rate, as well as the additions of Lloyd, Gonsales, and likely a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round, Deion Branch won't be offered a contract.

Anthony Gonsales – WR -

Impact – I think this is just a shot in the dark. He was a low first round talent, who hasn't been able to stay on the field for the last 2 seasons. Low risk – If he makes the team he vastly improves the quality of the depth at WR - He could be the guy who causes Branch not to get a contract and the guy who make Edelman fight for his roster spot.. He just as easily could be released after OTA's

Jonathan Fanene – DL/interior pass rusher.

Impact – Critical need, imho. I was happy to see BB address this first. This guy is one of many additions we've made so far, who we have to keep adding the term “when healthy”.when describing them. But he seems to be “the Mike Wright replacement”. A role player who can create inside pressure that we sorely missed after Wright and Pryor went down. He will also cut down on Wilfolk's snaps, which will be important for the playoffs. Seems like typical no-name mid level signing that often turns out well for the Pats

Trevor Scott – DE/OLB -

Impact – the ESPN reporter who covers the AFCW thought that in a couple of years people would look back at this as a “steal”. Coming into the league the kid showed he HAD a great burst,and was a natural pass rusher. But due to injury he hasn't done much the last two years. Again, “if healthy” he adds to the potential outside pass rush, DE/OLB depth and is insurance in case we can't afford to resign Mark Anderson.

Steve Gregory FS/ST

Impact – Again, another guy that when you first hear about the signing, you scratch your head and go “who???”. Just another no-name who looks better and better the more you read about him. He eases my pain from not signing Richard Marshall ,,,,a bit. At best he becomes the answer at FS. At worse he excels at ST's, adds safety depth, and helps in certain sub-coverages, To put it in financial terms he's either a over paid DB back up and ST's ace, or he's an underpaid starting FS.

At this point, its comforting to see SD fans' mostly positive comments about him. And that in the worst scenario, he's a huge upgrade over what we had back there last year. This was a good start at upgrading the Safety position, but hopefully its just a start. BTW-this move also makes it unlikely that Devon McCourty will be permanently moved to S anytime soon.

Marcus Harrison – DT -

Impact – Probably none – this poor kid didn't even get his own thread on the board.- normally I would say that since we had him and already and cut him this is the kind of signing that smacks of “camp fodder”. However, the fact that BB reached out to him so soon in the process, makes me think there's more to this. But then again.....maybe not. The competition for jobs on the DL is going to be FIERCE.

 

[mgteich]

WIDE RECEIVER
I want one more.

Ocho has shown nothing. Gonzalez is a shot in the dark. A 2nd or 3rd round draft choice is at best a shot in the dark for 2012 production. Edelman and Slater are special teamers and should have roster spots.

I think that we need yet another veteran for camp competition with Ocho and Gonzalez. Branch or another veteran should provide such insurance.

I do not oppose drafting yet another bench warmer as our developmental wide receiver. We could strike gold one of these times. In the meantime, we should not be counting on Ocho and Gonzalez without even having any camp competition, except from Underwood.

.....so good .....in a kind of low key, low risk kind of way. We were certainly more active that I thought we'd be this early in the process. So here is were we are right now.

Signings – Ours

Wes Welker - WR/PR

Impact – We retain the most productive WR in the league for the last 5 years. It was pretty much no brainer. The real question is how long can he keep doing it, given his stature, age, and the amount of pounding he's taken constantly catching balls primarily in the middle of the field. My guess is he peaked last season, but is likely to have 2 more productive if declining years. IMHO any LT contract should be front loaded, so the team will be protected when he “hits the wall”

Tracey White – ST/LB

Impact – This generation's Larry Izzo – Glad to have him back. BUT, he should never be on the field for a regular defense except in the most dire emergency

Matthew Slater – ST/WR/DB

Impact - Maybe I'm wrong and HE'S this generation's Larry Izzo – An all pro quality special teamer, his versatility to play WR and DB in emergencies just adds to his value BUT like White, ONLY in emergencies

Dan Connolly – C/G

Impact – He was more than adequate as the Pats C last season and in my eyes earned the right to be the starter this season. I thought he was stronger at setting the middle of the pass protection. Less effective as a run blocker, But in situation where you have to pick one of 2 good players, I go younger and bigger. - The Dan Koppen era is over. Thanks for your contribution And the beer is on me over at Mary Anne's

(disclaimer:- In the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that I said the same thing about Matt Light after the Draft)

Signings – Theirs

Brandon Lloyd - WR

Impact – I think its going to be less than you think. He can have a great year (ie 55 catches, 800 yds, and 7 TD's) but I think most of that production is just going to reduce the catches and yds from the other mjor targets The reality is that it is highly unlikely that the Pats with throw for 5,200 yds next season. Lloyd's value is that he can offer a different kind of WR threat to the defenses we face. That he can be the guy who can beat physical press coverage constantly.. Hopefully he can “stretch the defense” as well, but I'm not sure he's that kind of receiver.

The other impact is since Ocho is under contract at a reduced rate, as well as the additions of Lloyd, Gonsales, and likely a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round, Deion Branch won't be offered a contract.

Anthony Gonsales – WR -

Impact – I think this is just a shot in the dark. He was a low first round talent, who hasn't been able to stay on the field for the last 2 seasons. Low risk – If he makes the team he vastly improves the quality of the depth at WR - He could be the guy who causes Branch not to get a contract and the guy who make Edelman fight for his roster spot.. He just as easily could be released after OTA's

Jonathan Fanene – DL/interior pass rusher.

Impact – Critical need, imho. I was happy to see BB address this first. This guy is one of many additions we've made so far, who we have to keep adding the term “when healthy”.when describing them. But he seems to be “the Mike Wright replacement”. A role player who can create inside pressure that we sorely missed after Wright and Pryor went down. He will also cut down on Wilfolk's snaps, which will be important for the playoffs. Seems like typical no-name mid level signing that often turns out well for the Pats

Trevor Scott – DE/OLB -

Impact – the ESPN reporter who covers the AFCW thought that in a couple of years people would look back at this as a “steal”. Coming into the league the kid showed he HAD a great burst,and was a natural pass rusher. But due to injury he hasn't done much the last two years. Again, “if healthy” he adds to the potential outside pass rush, DE/OLB depth and is insurance in case we can't afford to resign Mark Anderson.

Steve Gregory FS/ST

Impact – Again, another guy that when you first hear about the signing, you scratch your head and go “who???”. Just another no-name who looks better and better the more you read about him. He eases my pain from not signing Richard Marshall ,,,,a bit. At best he becomes the answer at FS. At worse he excels at ST's, adds safety depth, and helps in certain sub-coverages, To put it in financial terms he's either a over paid DB back up and ST's ace, or he's an underpaid starting FS.

At this point, its comforting to see SD fans' mostly positive comments about him. And that in the worst scenario, he's a huge upgrade over what we had back there last year. This was a good start at upgrading the Safety position, but hopefully its just a start. BTW-this move also makes it unlikely that Devon McCourty will be permanently moved to S anytime soon.

Marcus Harrison – DT -

Impact – Probably none – this poor kid didn't even get his own thread on the board.- normally I would say that since we had him and already and cut him this is the kind of signing that smacks of “camp fodder”. However, the fact that BB reached out to him so soon in the process, makes me think there's more to this. But then again.....maybe not. The competition for jobs on the DL is going to be FIERCE.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

No question 13, but if he's back, even for the minimum, whats the cost. At most the Pats will keep only 5 WRs (not counting Slater). Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Gonzales, would seem to be locks. Now who do you keep. Branch, or that draftee everyone is calling for in the 2nd round. that could add true speed. Sure I'd give him a shot to come in and make the team, but I'm not paying him $2MM for the privilege. The vet minimum would be about half that. And off course maybe Gonzales won't stat healthy.

Ocho Cinco is still here, and at this point in better shape than Branch.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Ocho Cinco is still here, and at this point in better shape than Branch.

Shape for what? Bill values veterans even if they've lost a step physically but they can make up half a step mentally because they know where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to do at the snap. Branch outproduced Ocho by a mile and as the coaches and QB commented repeatedly even when he wasn't a target he was doing all the little things that make an offense succeed.

 

[mgteich]

There is little evidence for this assertion. We need someone who knows the offense and can be counted on to produce when called upon, which could be infrequently. He also needs to be able to take a larger role as needed.

Some would say that Underwood (after an off-season) may be able to beat out Ocho for a roster spot.

Ocho Cinco is still here, and at this point in better shape than Branch.

 

[patfanken]

Shape for what? Bill values veterans even if they've lost a step physically but they can make up half a step mentally because they know where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to do at the snap. Branch outproduced Ocho by a mile and as the coaches and QB commented repeatedly even when he wasn't a target he was doing all the little things that make an offense succeed.

That might all be true, Mo, but the "tea leaves" are saying something else. Ocho is still under contract for a reduced rate. If BB felt that Ocho was such a colossal bust, then why didn't he just release him. Why did he add TWO FA WRs if Branch was any kind of priority.

They could still bring back Deion on a $1MM vet minimum contract with some incentives. Maybe BB is setting up a true "death match" scenario where Branch, Ocho, Edelman, and Gonzales are all fighting for their lives and only 2 get to keep their jobs (maybe 3). That's the kind of competition that gets the best of people.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Shape for what? Bill values veterans even if they've lost a step physically but they can make up half a step mentally because they know where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to do at the snap. Branch outproduced Ocho by a mile and as the coaches and QB commented repeatedly even when he wasn't a target he was doing all the little things that make an offense succeed.

Shape for playing football, Branch might not be around but Ocho is and the above poster left him out. We know Branch is smarter, but he is almost finished as an NFL player.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Some would say that Underwood (after an off-season) may be able to beat out Ocho for a roster spot.

Well the evidence is slim here too, you can't write off Ocho and bring up a completely unknown guy who might not be around in Sept.

 

[Rob0729]

There is little evidence for this assertion. We need someone who knows the offense and can be counted on to produce when called upon, which could be infrequently. He also needs to be able to take a larger role as needed.

Some would say that Underwood (after an off-season) may be able to beat out Ocho for a roster spot.

Technically, he is right. Ochocinco is under contract and Branch isn't. That means at this very moment in time, Ocho has a better shot at making the final 53 man roster because Branch isn't even on the team. A few months from now, I expect that paradigm to be different.

 

[Tunescribe]

WIDE RECEIVER
I want one more.

Ocho has shown nothing. Gonzalez is a shot in the dark. A 2nd or 3rd round draft choice is at best a shot in the dark for 2012 production. Edelman and Slater are special teamers and should have roster spots.

I think that we need yet another veteran for camp competition with Ocho and Gonzalez. Branch or another veteran should provide such insurance.

I do not oppose drafting yet another bench warmer as our developmental wide receiver. We could strike gold one of these times. In the meantime, we should not be counting on Ocho and Gonzalez without even having any camp competition, except from Underwood.

If someone could shed light on what the team is trying to do with Underwood I'd like to hear it. Is there any faith around here that he could develop into a real weapon?

 

[micronin127]

WR - want to get a speedy receiver that can help on special teams returning kicks. Kid from Arkansas (Adams) is a possibility.

Slater is only nominally a WR, really a gunner. He caught 1 pass for 46 yards and was targeted in AFC Championship on that circus catch interception after Spike turned the ball over. We really need a young receiver that we can develop that is a deep threat.

Slater aint it. Edelman aint it. Ocho aint it. Britt Davis/Dorin ****erson aint it. Underwood aint it.

We have Welker (could hold out) and Lloyd. If we sign a 3rd TE, Hernandez might get split out more. Gonzalez has produced when healthy (over 3 years ago at this point), he might be it.

I'd get excited if they signed Welker long-term and drafted Adams.