Idle thoughts - FA recap.....so far

[patsfan13]

No question 13, but if he's back, even for the minimum, whats the cost. At most the Pats will keep only 5 WRs (not counting Slater). Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Gonzales, would seem to be locks. Now who do you keep. Branch, or that draftee everyone is calling for in the 2nd round. that could add true speed. Sure I'd give him a shot to come in and make the team, but I'm not paying him $2MM for the privilege. The vet minimum would be about half that. And off course maybe Gonzales won't stat healthy.

Given Gonzalaz's injury history IMO he isn't a lock. Branch at vet min is a backup that Brady has confidence in. Agree on 6 w Lloyd/Welker as starters Edleman/Slater ST/Wr versatility guys and 2 others.

From my POV you have Ocho/Branch/Gonzalez/POSSIBLE DP/Underwood/others competing for 2 spots.

2 things I find funny about what people are saying about the WR's, dismissing Branch with his 51 rec's, he is still a good possession receiver. THe hate towards Ocho, he was a failure, if he were a bad team mate or hadn't been a hard worker that would be opne thing but from all accounts he worked hard but just didn't understand the O.....


IF Gonzalez is healthy he could be a real impact player and Branch would be vunerable to a DP developmental WR. Time will tell.

We have a group og WR's now I will be happy to go into the season with without a DP on a WR.

Beyond that 5 spots for the O, First and most important will Light and Waters be back? Will we sign Fells as the 3rd TE, will BJGE be back (all of these I want) and do they draft a center of the future this year (not a big deal).

We should know about this by the time the draft happens. I could see a wink an nod agreements with Light and Waters about not seeing them till TC starts.

 

[patsfan13]

Shape for playing football, Branch might not be around but Ocho is and the above poster left him out. We know Branch is smarter, but he is almost finished as an NFL player.

BTW only 17 WR had more catches than Branch in 2011, one of them being WW.........

half of the teams in the NFL didn't have a #1 with that many rec.....

Almost finished?
.....

 

[patfanken]

BTW only 17 WR had more catches than Branch in 2011, one of them being WW.........

half of the teams in the NFL didn't have a #1 with that many rec.....

Almost finished?
.....

Hey, 13, I like Branch as much as the next guy, and if everyone in the league played zone defense he'd be a lock on my roster. But the fact is that as the season wore on, the Pats got physical press coverage, more and more. The fact is that Branch will completely disappear when that happens. Average CBs can take him out of the game.

Lloyd wasn't brought in for his blazing speed (4.6-4.7). He was brought in because he can consistently beat press coverage and can catch the ball down field even when seemingly covered. These are things Branch can't do. Lloyd doesn't need to get "separation" to excel. Branch HAS to have it.

.....And despite all the stats and the vast majority of this board, for some reason I still think that Ocho, who has more speed and strength than Branch, can be a contributor in this offense this season. I can't defend this OP from last season, its just my gut and a lot of off season inferences.

 

[patsfan13]

Hey, 13, I like Branch as much as the next guy, and if everyone in the league played zone defense he'd be a lock on my roster. But the fact is that as the season wore on, the Pats got physical press coverage, more and more. The fact is that Branch will completely disappear when that happens. Average CBs can take him out of the game.

Lloyd wasn't brought in for his blazing speed (4.6-4.7). He was brought in because he can consistently beat press coverage and can catch the ball down field even when seemingly covered. These are things Branch can't do. Lloyd doesn't need to get "separation" to excel. Branch HAS to have it.

.....And despite all the stats and the vast majority of this board, for some reason I still think that Ocho, who has more speed and strength than Branch, can be a contributor in this offense this season. I can't defend this OP from last season, its just my gut and a lot of off season inferences.

As a backup which is what we are talking about Branch is fine. I doubt we see much press ocverage now.

 

[patfanken]

As a backup which is what we are talking about Branch is fine. I doubt we see much press ocverage now.

Its not a matter of him being WR depth. That's fine, but what's the consequence. Who goes if he stays??????

 

[patsfan13]

Its not a matter of him being WR depth. That's fine, but what's the consequence. Who goes if he stays??????

As always in the nfl it depends on health.

If I know everybody was going to stay healthy? Gonzalez as the #3 WR (assuming he has some of his speed I am guessing he can successfully pick up the O unlike Ocho) and a Dp in the first 3 rnds.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That might all be true, Mo, but the "tea leaves" are saying something else. Ocho is still under contract for a reduced rate. If BB felt that Ocho was such a colossal bust, then why didn't he just release him. Why did he add TWO FA WRs if Branch was any kind of priority.

They could still bring back Deion on a $1MM vet minimum contract with some incentives. Maybe BB is setting up a true "death match" scenario where Branch, Ocho, Edelman, and Gonzales are all fighting for their lives and only 2 get to keep their jobs (maybe 3). That's the kind of competition that gets the best of people.

Its not a matter of him being WR depth. That's fine, but what's the consequence. Who goes if he stays??????

Ocho is still under contract. We don't know if it's at a reduced rate since aside from his tweet to the effect he was anticipating a restructure we haven't had any confirmation that they've actually done one. And one doesn't preclude his still being cut before, during or after camp. Their problem with Ocho is he practices well but can't perform at game speed. Kind of like many UDFA's in pre season tilts... And after 26 weeks and more than 100 practices and 19 games he still looks painfully uncomfortable on the field with this team. He's older than Branch by 2 years. Many feel he's lost a step in addition to not grasping the offense. Cut him and you save $3M this season and $3M in 2013. His remaining salary is $6M. His dead cap is $3M and that can remain spread across 2 seasons. $3M is probably what Floyd will cost agaisnt the cap this season or it would probably cover Branch and BGJE or cover Connolly or Fanene's cap hit with room to spare.

If you lose him from a unit standpoint that probably means he couldn't beat out Branch or Edelman or Underwood again because they also play ST.

We will carry 80 some odd players throughout camp, Ken. The object is competition to achieve the goal of being in position to make final unit and team cuts from the point you have the best possible team to field on opening day. Teams don't have to be down to 53 man roters and under the cap again until then.

 

[Ring 6]

BTW only 17 WR had more catches than Branch in 2011, one of them being WW.........

half of the teams in the NFL didn't have a #1 with that many rec.....

Almost finished?
.....

I found that very interesting so I looked it up.
I think you made a mistake.
17 WR had more receptions than LLOYD last year.
41 WR had more receptions than Branch last year.(plus 21 other TEs or RBs)

 

[The Scrizz]

Its not a matter of him being WR depth. That's fine, but what's the consequence. Who goes if he stays??????

How about Ocho, Ocho, or Ocho?

 

[ATippett56]

Then it might surprise you to know that during the Playoffs, when it counts the most. James Iheadabu was tied for 7th in tackles. He was tied with.....wait for it.....Ray Lewis.

An opposing offense targets the weakest link in the defense. Furthermore, James Ihedigbo's production during the regular season is summarized below:

Sacks - 0
Forced Fumbles - 0
Interceptions - 0
Pass Defensed - 1

Awfully paltry, if you ask me.

I wouldn't be unhappy if James was on the team. He played well on special teams, and would be good depth at the safety position. He played hurt, and could improve with more time in the system. True, I wouldn't want him to be a regular starter, but he certainly isn't "the last player on the 2012 roster" I'd like to see back. Let him fight it out with Barrett and Locket for a roster spot. IIRC he's under contract

I'd rather take my chances with Aaron Henry, free safety from Wisconsin, if available in the fourth round than Ihedigbo or Barrett or Lockett or Brown.

Aaron Henry, Wisconsin, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[PYPER]

Unless somebody offers him a significant contract, Branch will be back at the vet min. He's a solid #3 and would be a great fit as a #4. Gonzalez and Oho will have to "DECISIVELY" beat him out to take his spot on the roster. You can't underestimate the chemistry and trust he has with Brady. To beat out Branch those guys will have to earn it. Here's how I project the receivers.

1) Lloyd
2) Welker
3) Branch/Gonzalez/Ocho (pick 1)
4) Rookie1 (If he's a 2nd or 3rd rounder, he's a lock to make the team. If he's really good, he may outplay the vets for the #3 slot)
5) Edelmann (a roster lock b/c his game is ideal to backup Welker and b/c of his positional flexibility)
6) Branch/Rookie2 (Obviously, this slot may not exist but BB could decide to keep 6 receivers again. If he does, it'll likely be out of loyalty to Branch or b/c two rookie receivers impress during camp. If Branch gets beat out for #3-4, I think he's a fit here b/c he's well respected and can easily slide into the #3 role if needed... If Branch wins #3-4, there is a chance this slot would go to a 2nd rookie receiver being drafted in the later rounds who turns heads during camp although they would probably try to sneak him to their P.S. instead of keep him here. I don't see any scenario where BB would keep Gonzalez or Ocho here. Those two must win the #3-4 slots to make the team.

 

[patsfan13]

I found that very interesting so I looked it up.
I think you made a mistake.
17 WR had more receptions than LLOYD last year.
41 WR had more receptions than Branch last year.(plus 21 other TEs or RBs)

Note I specified WR not all rec.

I went to NFL.com did stats for all wr sorted in # of rec and 51 put Branch at #18.

 

[ATippett56]

Granted, on the surface, camp fodder is all he should be, but, Tip, aren't you curious as to why BB signed him a week into FA, before guys like Lloyd and Gregory? If he were simply "camp fodder", why not after the draft, or just before camp?

How did the reclamation project work with Albert Haynesworth?

I'd agree with this except for draft 2 Safeties in this draft. Draft one in the first 2 rounds. Wait until next year for the 2nd since it looks like it will be a much deeper draft for safeties.

If Belichick finds value in the third or fourth round for a second safety, I could foresee two safeties selected.

My ideal draft would see our first 5 picks being Cox, Gilmore and Branch. Streeter, and Martin. Though now that we've added 2 FA WR's, maybe I wouldn't invest that high a pick to draft another

Cox - Yes
Gilmore - Yes
Branch - Yes
Martin (Markelle) -Yes
Streeter - 5th Round or lower

Unfortunately, Cox and Gilmore could be both gone before the New England Patriots select at #27.

I would not select a wide receiver in the first two rounds of the 2012 NFL Draft only to be placed inactive during the 2012-13 AFC Playoffs. The New England Patriots defense needs to be prioritized in the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

Gonzalez will join the list of Patriots who are members of Bernard Pollard fan club

Bernard Pollard didn’t think he did anything wrong. Neither did game officials, who didn't throw a flag. Neither did the NFL office, which issued no fine.

But Pollard’s tackle of Anthony Gonzalez on the sideline in the fourth quarter of the Colts’ Monday night win over Houston left Gonzalez with a season-ending left knee injury, and clearly left the Colts upset over how it unfolded.

Gonzalez gone, Colts will remember Pollard - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

 

[patfanken]

How about Ocho, Ocho, or Ocho?

Well now THAT'S subtle, Scrizz. Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel.

 

[ATippett56]

I don't think Scott has has made the team yet. He'll have to earn it in OTA's and camp. If someone else were to beat him out, BB would not be afraid to cut him (not saying he won't make the team but.....)

Scott's presence could be used to motivate Jermaine Cunningham for a 3-4 outside linebacker position.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would not select a wide receiver in the first two rounds of the 2012 NFL Draft only to be placed inactive during the 2012-13 AFC Playoffs. The New England Patriots defense needs to be prioritized in the 2012 NFL Draft.

5 picks in the first 3 rounds. 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. It's kind of a silly notion to say/imply that using one of those first 4 picks on a WR and 3 of them on defenders would not be prioritizing defense in the draft.

 

[ATippett56]

No question 13, but if he's back, even for the minimum, whats the cost. At most the Pats will keep only 5 WRs (not counting Slater). Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Gonzales, would seem to be locks.

Anthony Gonzalez is not a lock for anything. He will have to earn a roster spot, as well as completely recovered from all past injuries.

Five Wide Receivers
Lloyd
Welker
Branch (unless he's completely lost it)
???
Edelman (primary punt returner)

 

[Ring 6]

Note I specified WR not all rec.

I went to NFL.com did stats for all wr sorted in # of rec and 51 put Branch at #18.

I think you made a mistake. I went to Pro Football Reference.
Actually at NFL.com, he is tied with a group at 40

NFL Stats: by Player Position

I think you may have just search AFC only, because he would be 18th there.

 

[ATippett56]

5 picks in the first 3 rounds. 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. It's kind of a silly notion to say/imply that using one of those first 4 picks on a WR and 3 of them on defenders would not be prioritizing defense in the draft.

You have your wide receiver draft binky and I have mine. Unfortunately, your wide receiver draft binky will not last into the third round.