WR...free agency or the draft?

[Wilfork#75]

First its a bad thing because you would be paying 2 'starters' when there is only 1 spot for then.
Second, its a bad thing because you are directing play away from 3 guys who caught 291 passes for 3800 yards and 33 TDs. It is very doubtful changing the focus of the offense will make it better than that.
Change for change sake might be OK if you are ineffective. Change for change sake when you just had the 2nd highest passing yardage total in NFL history is foolish.

That might be great when everyone is on the field, healthy and productive. But what happens when one of them goes down with an injury. Quick hypothetical, how would this offense fair in a big game, say the Super Bowl, with one of those guys hurt, say Gronk? You can say that this team lost that game because the defense couldn't stop 1 drive in the 4th quarter, but teams don't win Super Bowls only scoring 17 points. Since 1976 only 1 team has won the Super Bowl while scoring less than 20 points. That was the New York Giants in 2008 when they beat the unstoppable Pats offense 17-14. And since 1967, only 3 teams have lost the Super Bowl while scoring more than 25 points, so the offense needs to do its job as well.

Welker, Gronk and Hernandez are great, but relying so heavily on them hurts this team. Jays52 had a great thread earlier in the season about the issues around relying heavily on two TE's and a slot WR. Basically, the idea is that it condenses the middle of the field and makes it harder not only for them, but to run the ball. For this offense to be even better (yes I said better because despite what the numbers say I think this offense can improve), they need to spread the defense out, run the ball, and provide more options in the passing game. This offense needs balance and versatility, so when they are in a big situation and something unexpected happens (injury, lack of production...) they can still function at a high level.

 

[aurakilla]

lol how about Jerricho Cotchery????????????



:americaflag::hijacked::verycool::singing:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Peter King (I know) was talking about that in one of his tweets. He implied that was why Lloyd will not be a patriot next season.

Which is unfortunate since Rap in his article today on the whole Condon issue says that Bill tried to trade for Lloyd AFTER they realized Chad wasn't getting it. In the end though it will really depend on what Lloyd's market turns out to be, and it might not be a Condonesque market given his history apart from one OC who happens to reside in NE. He also says NE and the Giants were Mark Herlich's two finalists as an UDFA and Condon was his agent, which he thinks indicates they at least are on speaking terms. Their issue with Condon is he is a hard ass who always believes that the best situation for his player is the one that purports to pay them the most. And that clearly isn't always true. Had he not always played hardball with the Colts, Manning might be 2 years into a retirement deal and either affordable or tradeable and he might have been surrounded by better talent and won another ring or two already. But with his QB's in particular Condon has always been about raising the bar. Probably cost some of his former clients the time and consisderation that might have resulted in their actually being given a better shot at developing.

 

[robbomango]

lol how about Jerricho Cotchery????????????



:americaflag::hijacked::verycool::singing:

or!
http://gifsoup.com/

 

[Deus Irae]

or!
http://gifsoup.com/

A package containing 2 1/2 pounds of marijuana was tracked to Simpson's home.

A search of Simpson's home also turned up 6 more pounds of marijuana, smoking pipes and scales, authorities said.

"We don't believe it (the package) was for personal use," Gregory said. "We believe there's some sort of distribution or sales out of his home."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/jerome-simpson-marijuana-delivery-police-bengals_n_977015.html

 

[robbomango]

Jerome Simpson Marijuana Bust: Bengals Receiver Has Drugs Mailed To Home

He did plead not guilty

 

[MP-Logick]

Brandon Lloyd is represented by Tom Condon...does that rule us out?

 

[Smokeeye123]

Colston>Lloyd>Wayne

 

[Keyser Söze]

Colston then Sanu in the draft.

 

[Elijah T.]

Colston then Sanu in the draft.

Amen.

Those guys are Patriot receivers.

 

[Rob0729]

Brandon Lloyd is represented by Tom Condon...does that rule us out?

I don't think it is a big issue. Condon only has a lot of bargaining power when his client is marquee. Lloyd has a number of issues going against him that will soften the market including his age, the fact he has had attitude problems in the past, he has been in multiple systems in his career and only performed under McDaniels' system, and he has said he is going to follow McDaniels where ever he goes.

 

[Rob0729]

Personally, I think the Pats should get one or two WRs in free agency and another one in the draft. WRs rarely hit the ground running as a rookie.

 

[MP-Logick]

I don't think it is a big issue. Condon only has a lot of bargaining power when his client is marquee. Lloyd has a number of issues going against him that will soften the market including his age, the fact he has had attitude problems in the past, he has been in multiple systems in his career and only performed under McDaniels' system, and he has said he is going to follow McDaniels where ever he goes.

Well, the last time we worked with Tom Condon was 2004...

 

[PatsFan24]

FA. Drafting a WR has not worked so well as of late and first year WR usually don't have a major role.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, the last time we worked with Tom Condon was 2004...

That's because Condon mostly has top QBs on his roster and none of them are Tom Brady. His client list is most of the top 10 QBs. He had LaDanien Tomlinson (who wasn't paid all that much from the Jets although they paid him good money). His top clients are the Manning brothers, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Sam Bradford, Tony Romo, and Alex Smith. Condon specializes in QBs.

 

[Ring 6]

By your logic, it was New England Patriots organizational mismanagement to have Deion Branch on the 53 man roster and trading a fith round draft pick in 2012 for Chad Ochostinko.

In hindsight yes. In foresight, not so much. First Branch wasn't exactly a huge contract. But more importantly the offense had not yet involved into what it did.
291-3800-33 this year was 173-1957-23
Hernandez and Gronk combined for less production together in 2010 than Gronk himself in 2011. Gronk hadn't shown the receiving skills we saw this year, he only had 42 catches and 540 yards, well under half of his 2011 production. Hernandez also only caught 45 passes, and Welker was coming off his worst season due to injury recovery.
Clearly the 2010 offense needed to add recieving threats, but as it turned out they were here already. They also made 85 unnecessary.

Offensive diversification is a bad option?

Depends. If it causes you to change a scheme that works, yes. If it causes you to overspend for something you don't need in search of unnecessary diversity, yes.

All those passing yards were only good for 17 points scored in the Super Bowl. Less passing and more rushing leads to a more balanced and less predictable offensive attack.

Wait, you want to run more by adding to expensive starting WRs? Where will they play? Clearly we will continue to use 2 TEs, especially if we run more. So now you want to add 2 top cost WRs in addiiton to Welker to share 2 spots among them while we run more? That doesn't make any more sense that basing personell decision on the amount of points scored in one game.

 

[MP-Logick]

That's because Condon mostly has top QBs on his roster and none of them are Tom Brady. His client list is most of the top 10 QBs. He had LaDanien Tomlinson (who wasn't paid all that much from the Jets although they paid him good money). His top clients are the Manning brothers, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Sam Bradford, Tony Romo, and Alex Smith. Condon specializes in QBs.

To quote NESN:

"In 2009, Condon told the Boston Herald that his firm "pretends there are only 31 franchises in the NFL now," and he claimed that the Patriots "pretend we (CAA) don't exist."

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

To quote NESN:

"In 2009, Condon told the Boston Herald that his firm "pretends there are only 31 franchises in the NFL now," and he claimed that the Patriots "pretend we (CAA) don't exist."

yeah i saw this..i guess colston or reggie wayne will do..right?


Although colston will be more $$ that lloyd being 2 years younger

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting bit here:

We’ll be more active in free agency that we were last year,” Bucs G.M. Mark Dominik said Tuesday via the Tampa Tribune. “We purposely rolled every penny we could into this year’s cap. Clubs didn’t have to do that, but we wanted to. We have plans.”

Teams didn’t have to roll their money into this year’s cap, but why wouldn’t they? There is no downside. In Tampa’s case, it’s more salary cap room than they can spend. The number could be around $60 million.

Bucs roll over salary cap space, ready to spend | ProFootballTalk

If there are many teams willing to take this sort of approach, that first wave of free agents could make a fortune.

 

[ATippett56]

Interesting bit here:



Bucs roll over salary cap space, ready to spend | ProFootballTalk

If there are many teams willing to take this sort of approach, that first wave of free agents could make a fortune.

As a footnote, Tampa Bay was dead last in defensive sacks (23). Tampa Bay could be a possible destination for Mario Williams.

2011 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com