WR...free agency or the draft?

[Ring 6]

The 3 guys who caught 291 passes was a direct result of how abysmal the rest of the WR are/were - Tate, Price, Stinko, Slater, Underwood, Edelman - take your pick.

Welker had the 19th best season a receiver has ever had.
Gronk broke the record for yards and TDs by a TE, and he and Hernandez blew away the alltime TE duo records.
They did this because they are good, not becuase no one else got open so we threw to them when they were covered.

If they sign a FA WR as well draft a WR, the trio of Gronk, Hernandez, Welker are not catching same # of balls. The offense, however, will be much more balanced, and difficult for opposing D's to key on 1-2 positions to stop.

That argument would be good if we struggled to throw to those 3. Its ridiculous when we threw to those 3 at record setting levels of success.

You need depth and balance because as we all know NFL is littered with injuries. Maybe you did not notice the all pro Sam Aiken as the starting WR in 2010 playoff game against the Ravens, or that Welker knee was tore up the last game of the season forcing college QB to start at slot position.

I didn't say don't get depth, I said we have bigger problems that this ficticious pursuit of someone to open things up for the receivers who were dominant to begin with.
We had the 2nd most passing yards in NFL history, and you want to redefine the passing game, while we allowed the 2nd most pass yards in NFL history and you are telling us how great the defense is.

 

[Ring 6]

I forgot receivers only catch balls. For some reason I thought they also did things like dictate coverages, create matchup problems, block in the run game and change the dynamic of offenses. Silly me.

What point are you making? That a huge need for this team is dictating coverage so that the 3 primary recievers who produced at record breaking levels can do more? I think the results prove that is ficticious. To block? OK lets go spend big money on WRs so they can block. And we will let the defense allow 80 yard TD drives at the end of every close game.

 

[Banjo]

That argument would be good if we struggled to throw to those 3. Its ridiculous when we threw to those 3 at record setting levels of success.

oh yeah, big success. except in the only game that mattered... the SUPER BOWL. Gronk's injury crippled the offense more than it should have. no matter how great an offense might be one year, you have to keep adding pieces to it. in this league if you're not getting better, you're getting worse.

I fail to see how getting better WRs actually hurts the team

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Welker had the 19th best season a receiver has ever had.
Gronk broke the record for yards and TDs by a TE, and he and Hernandez blew away the alltime TE duo records.
They did this because they are good, not becuase no one else got open so we threw to them when they were covered.


That argument would be good if we struggled to throw to those 3. Its ridiculous when we threw to those 3 at record setting levels of success.


I didn't say don't get depth, I said we have bigger problems that this ficticious pursuit of someone to open things up for the receivers who were dominant to begin with.
We had the 2nd most passing yards in NFL history, and you want to redefine the passing game, while we allowed the 2nd most pass yards in NFL history and you are telling us how great the defense is.

They did this because the are good AND because no one else got open so we threw to them when they were covered and on a couple of occasions that proved to be problematic.

Bill obviously disagrees with you or Ocho wouldn't have collected $6M last season while being signed to a 3 year $12M deal. We need that $4M guy on the outside and ideally we need a developmental WR or two in the pipeline as depth and a long term replacement for Branch and any other veteran WR playing the position. What's that saying Bill is fond of, if you aren't getting better you're getting worse... This offense carried the defense to a superbowl but couldn't carry it to a ring because **** happens and it had no margin for error (or injury). Which is why they need a #3 TE too by whatever means.

I think we all agree that the lions share of the focus this offseason needs to be on defense, but that doesn't mean the offense can stand pat.

 

[BTTA]

There arent really enough balls to go around for 2 starting calliber WRs.
Welker, Gronk and Hernandez caught 291 passes for 3800 yards and 33 TDs.
To add 2 starting caliber WRs we would have to change the offense and direct it away from these 3.
That seems like change for change sake, but more importantly we need the cap money on the other side of the ball, IMO.

There are plenty of balls to go around. For this offense to get to the next level, and become championship quality (having dropped of significantly in playoff games), Welker and the TE's need to be targeted less often. That will make them more dependable in the big games. The offense is overly dependent on them now.

So I'm happy to take catches away from them and have those catches go to WR's. That would actually lead to an increase in completion %, creating more catches for everyone.

 

[Defsoul]

We obviously can't draft one so I'll take any of the down the field threats in FA!

Third time's the charm. The Patriots blew it with Tate and Price. The next WR drafted by the Patriots in the 3rd round will be the ****!!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

What point are you making? That a huge need for this team is dictating coverage so that the 3 primary recievers who produced at record breaking levels can do more? I think the results prove that is ficticious. To block? OK lets go spend big money on WRs so they can block. And we will let the defense allow 80 yard TD drives at the end of every close game.

This reminds me of past off seasons when some fans chose to statistically prove that we were set at WR with Troy Brown catching over 100 passes or Reche Caldwell catching over 60 (we were the 6th best offense in 2006!)

The lack of a deep threat or other shortcomings will never be a concern to some fans who let stats fool their eyeballs.

Welker, if he doesn't hold out, Gronk and Hernandez will all have great years again next year even if we have no deep threat. They will rack up big numbers ....and even more against mediocre teams.

But the lack of a deep threat will allow defenses to collapse, put more pressure in the O-line, rush Brady to make passes he may wish he hadn't attempted, stuff the run, and makes the job of our short to mid range WRs that much more difficult.

All of that can be masked by Troy Brown, Wes Welker, or Reche Caldwell's good to great stats.

That means nothing in the biggest games when all that separates winning from losing is one big play when less pressure on the O-line ands QB thanks to a legitimate deep threat.

The stats don't show this. The eyeballs do.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats have Edelman and Chad Johnson and Underwood under contract for next year. I don't see Chad sticking, though he did have that nice 20 yard grab in the SB (and then was benched). The Pats will hopefully re-sign Welker. But that still leaves 2-3 spots to be filled. I think that they will add 1-2 via free agency, add 1 during the draft and then add a couple more UDFAs after the draft.

I asked in the draft forum if anyone knew what the protocol was for working out prospects and got no answer. I asked because it would seem to me that when working out a WR, you'd want your QB to be the one throwing the prospect the ball and running them through the routes and such. But I have a feeling that only coaches are allowed to participate in that.

As for the issue with developing WRs, the Pats haven't had a good WR coach in awhile. In fact, it could be argued that Brian Daboll was responsible for developing Branch and Givens. And it was Daboll who said he wouldn't coach Chad Jackson.

One of the things that was so telling (and possibly damning) was back in 2006 when Caldwell and the other receivers had to have Brady show them exactly how he wanted the routes run.

Guys who I think would help the Pats:
Colston - Not realistic
Lloyd - Has a Diva attitude, supposedly bad in the locker-room every where he's been.
Josh Morgan - Solid receiver. Runs excellent routes. Good hands. Injury history
Reggie Wayne - Still has it. Would be good for 1-2 years. Will probably follow Peyton though.
Jericcho Cotchery - Killed us all the time when he played for the Jets.
Pierre Garcon - can get open deep. But tends to drop passes.


Players who I don't think will likely won't help the Pats:
Vincent Jackson - Is one arrest away from a suspension. Not too bright.
Mike Wallace - He runs horrible routes. The only saving grace is that he has plenty of situational awareness and easily gets open when plays break down. Also, he's an RFA and is likely to get a 1st round tender.

 

[Brady2Gronk]

Third time's the charm. The Patriots blew it with Tate and Price. The next WR drafted by the Patriots in the 3rd round will be the ****!!!

I would like to see the Pats draft Juron Criner in the 3rd if hes available. He lacks straight line speed but he has very good hands and rarely drops any balls.

 

[Deus Irae]

When it comes to the Patriots' plans this offseason, the initial thought from here is that there will be a two-pronged approach at receiver and safety – one veteran in free agency, one prospect in the draft. Those are two areas I anticipate the club pursuing aggressively. Looks like a lot of potential options in free agency.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Immaculate12]

If DeSean Jackson is available, I want him. He fills the deep threat role incredibly well. He has attitude issues, but that hasn't stopped us before.

 

[bucky]

For this offense to get to the next level, and become championship quality (having dropped of significantly in playoff games)

I'm sorry, but this offense has been "championship quality" for a long time. I don't care if they resign Welker, add Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron, and Leshaun McCoy. If their defense doesn't improve, they're still going to be 1 mediocre Brady game away from losing in the playoffs.

 

[bucky]

Assuming Welker is retained, I'd rate WR as roughly the 4th highest priority. They definitely need some depth, youth and speed and I'm sure they'll address it in the draft. But you're not going to get a rookie WR who will contribute much next year. So if they can squeeze Branch to the #3 WR role and get a marginal upgrade over Branch for reasonable money, that will be good enough. They also clearly need to add depth at TE.

The rest of the resources have to go into improving the D.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I'm sorry, but this offense has been "championship quality" for a long time. I don't care if they resign Welker, add Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron, and Leshaun McCoy. If their defense doesn't improve, they're still going to be 1 mediocre Brady game away from losing in the playoffs.

In the REGULAR SEASON, for which NO Lombardi trophy is awarded.

IN the POST SEASON, they turn into the Ravens Offense, the only exception in last 7 years being the Broncos beatdown this year. Even in the 16-0 season, the Offense limped its way thru the 2nd half and post season.

and to top it off

31 TOTAL POINTS SCORED IN LAST 2 SB's. that is championship quality ???????? :singing:

 

[bucky]

In the REGULAR SEASON, for which NO Lombardi trophy is awarded.

IN the POST SEASON, they turn into the Ravens Offense, the only exception in last 7 years being the Broncos beatdown this year. Even in the 16-0 season, the Offense limped its way thru the 2nd half and post season.

and to top it off

31 TOTAL POINTS SCORED IN LAST 2 SB's. that is championship quality ???????? :singing:

This is all nonsense. And in fact your argument about the 16-0 team points the to fact that it's not about the WRs. If' there's one issue that team DIDN'T have, it's outside WRs.

Now, to address the real problem - Every time the Giants had the ball, they either scored, or pinned the Pats inside the 10 yard line. The Giants had the ball for almost 40 minutes. Every time the Defense got a chance to make a play, they couldn't do it. That Patriots' return game did nothing all day.

Fact of the matter is, if Tom Brady and the OL don't play a great game every time, the team loses. Why? Because they get nothing from the defense and ST. And that's not going to change if you bring it more outside WRs.

 

[Smokeeye123]

I'm sorry, but this offense has been "championship quality" for a long time. I don't care if they resign Welker, add Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron, and Leshaun McCoy. If their defense doesn't improve, they're still going to be 1 mediocre Brady game away from losing in the playoffs.

If we had those 4, we could win the superbowl with Ryan Mallett as QB.

 

[RIpats88]

This reminds me of past off seasons when some fans chose to statistically prove that we were set at WR with Troy Brown catching over 100 passes or Reche Caldwell catching over 60 (we were the 6th best offense in 2006!)

The lack of a deep threat or other shortcomings will never be a concern to some fans who let stats fool their eyeballs.

Welker, if he doesn't hold out, Gronk and Hernandez will all have great years again next year even if we have no deep threat. They will rack up big numbers ....and even more against mediocre teams.

But the lack of a deep threat will allow defenses to collapse, put more pressure in the O-line, rush Brady to make passes he may wish he hadn't attempted, stuff the run, and makes the job of our short to mid range WRs that much more difficult.

All of that can be masked by Troy Brown, Wes Welker, or Reche Caldwell's good to great stats.

That means nothing in the biggest games when all that separates winning from losing is one big play when less pressure on the O-line ands QB thanks to a legitimate deep threat.

The stats don't show this. The eyeballs do.

exactly, and Bill Belichick obviously thought we needed that type of WR or else he wouldnt have sunk 6million$ into ochocinco.

in the playoffs, we've found that teams with good defenses can take branch out with single covering him, and getting physical with our WR's, and clogging the middle of the field because there's no threat of someone getting open towards the sidelines...this offense hasn't been elite in the playoffs.

sure there are enough balls to go around...wouldnt you want brady to have a reliable #2 WR so he can spread that ball around better? rather than having to force balls to Gronk/Welker because no one else is open? personally I would..

Branch is a good player, but hes too inconsistent...and having him disappear at times hinders our offense..see Jets, ravens, giants playoff games..

 

[Joey007]

I think both, we should resign Welker, sign either Lloyd, Wayne, or maybe even Colston,(but if we signed him Branch probably wont be back, also get rid of Ocho) and draft a guy early in the draft. If we use a 2nd round pick I'd say a guy like Marvin McNutt intrigues me. If it's one of our 1st rounders, I'd say Alshon Jeffrey, maybe Kendall Wright.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Both. Realistic choice would be Lloyd and then add another one in the later rounds. Would love to see Jarius Wright drafted in the 4th or later. Big time speed with good hands.

Ideally and unrealistic. Vincent Jackson and Kendall Wright would be my top choices. Just sickening.

 

[DW Toys]

They did this because the are good AND because no one else got open so we threw to them when they were covered and on a couple of occasions that proved to be problematic.

Bill obviously disagrees with you or Ocho wouldn't have collected $6M last season while being signed to a 3 year $12M deal. We need that $4M guy on the outside and ideally we need a developmental WR or two in the pipeline as depth and a long term replacement for Branch and any other veteran WR playing the position. What's that saying Bill is fond of, if you aren't getting better you're getting worse... This offense carried the defense to a superbowl but couldn't carry it to a ring because **** happens and it had no margin for error (or injury). Which is why they need a #3 TE too by whatever means.

I think we all agree that the lions share of the focus this offseason needs to be on defense, but that doesn't mean the offense can stand pat.

You may be on to something Cousin.
I am disappointed Ocho had a rough start. I think BB loves the kid and but I think Brandy not so much. That is the real issue. Not work ethic or stupidity. TB saw what happened to Palmer and it was like his screens were up, yet he and Moss worked well. What bothers me is the fact that Ocho had what..... 22 snaps in the SB and was targeted once. Was I the only Pats fan who ever saw him open? And saw him open during the season? He was, and TB won't chuck it to him. Yep he ran a few wrong routes. It wasn't playbook but it was option errors. I blame O'Brien and TB on Ochos lack of targets. When a documented 75% on the balls go to Welker and Gronk (and who can blame him for that with those results), TB has a tendency to ignore another perhaps open guy (see Moss). If TB won't throw to Ocho, Chad needs to find another home.

TB loves Branch....why? He is slow, has had wrong routes run this year and we have seen he and TB jost (imagine that!) but yet Brady gives him some throws. I will bet anything that if Ocho had the targets Branch had the results might have been more catches and more yards than Branch. Slow midget receivers in the NFL are not the way to go.

TB prefers Branch....O.K. Tom, Fair enough. We get it. He was a stud for you once but remember he walked out on you as well. BB, you actually need to dump both Ocho and Branch. Your QB won't throw to one that I feel is trying his ass off and perhasp will never be on the same page and the other is a shell of his self , both small and now painfully slow.

Mo, your 3rd TE is in fact a thought of value. If Coby Fleener can be had at #49 in round two, I say grab him. He has the skill level between Gronk and Hernandez. He can block a bit. He has the speed of a Colson and Jackson in 2012 (who would run 4.6 ish today) who we are all hoping for either to land here, and Fleener can work the field. He can split wide. Why do we need Colson or Jackson? I tell you who I would rather Draft Alshon Jefferey at #31 if at all possible and go with Reggie Wayne.

They say speed is the issue, yet 4.46 is slow for a 237 lb WR? Give me Jefferey over Blackmon. The Game****s really had no outstanding QB play either!

Look at this tape versus Barron and Kirkpatrick from the Tide!

The Tale of the Tape: Alshon Jeffery vs. Calvin Johnson | Bleacher Report

On Offense give me Fleener (great idea) and Jefferey in the Draft and pick up Wayne. I's say Lloyd too but not enough footballs and look what happened to Ocho because of that. Was he slow to pick the "O' up? Yes. Could he have helped or made more of it? Not if TB ignores him.

So you have Welker, Hernandez, Gronk, Fleener, Jefferey and Wayne to rotate. Think there is match-up problems?

Defense should be a focal point. I am always in favor or a reasonable FA even over Draft picks because they have done it. The percentages of success are higher than a pick. I do like some Draft choices this year. Get me Ingram and Vinny Curry as your two new front seven Defensive pieces rotating with Anderson and Carter and as far as FA pieces, Finnegan, because he is nasty and when Adrian Wilson needs to be CAP cut ($6.5M for Cards), grab him at Safety (rated second best cover Safety in the league). Wilson is tough and plays hurt too. He is 32 but a couple years left in his tank.

Are we too nice on the Defense? Spikes, Chung and Wilfork bring it but I can't think of someone else who has that "streak". We miss the Seymour, Rodney,Milloy, Bruschi, Willie M., Law "I will smash you" mentality.
Give me Wilson and Finnegan to add to Spikes, Chung and VW!.

My last choice won't cost too much. He is Mike Wrightish and yet an upgrade on Mike Wright and had 5.5 sacks for a mediocre Skins defense. He's only 28. An upgrade on Ellis and Warren and at 6'6" and 315 can play in or out. Adam Carriker. He was hurt after he was drafted in the first round by the Rams after a decent Rookie season. The Skins stole him for a draft day move a year back. Now he would be one of those BB patented FA value "steals".
DW Toys