What do you think is holding up the Welker signing?

[UK_Pat37]

Fortunately this argument will be settled pretty quickly as the Patriots will have to make a decision on tagging him. If they tag him it settles the question of whether or not he is worth 10 million. I'm sure the Maddenites will continue to argue otherwise and they will shriek about how many Madden Lombardis they are losing out on but those of us who love real football can take solace in the knowledge that their chance of returning to the Bowl next season are greatly enhanced by Welker's presence.

If they tag him, how does it settle the question? They can work out a home town discount deal still, or even decide to trade away if they feel they can';t sign him to what they want and that they could move on.

My argument doesn't have any logic to you because you're dogmatic...you don't want to hear any other view apart from your own because, in short, you think you're right and won't listen to the opposite side of the spectrum.

You're a very dogmatic person. It's not a good trait

I've only learnt one new thing from this argument; and I think it's that Ivan seems to be more of the idiot here....despite the fact that anyone who's disagreed with him is apparently an 'idiot', a 'moron' a 'fantasy GM' or a 'Maddenatie'...pretty laughable.

Stay respectful and accept there isn't one view.

 

[Onedaful]

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be that elite defenses can shut him down because we don't have outside receivers worth a damn to prevent said defenses from keying in on Welker.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. They shutdown Welker easily because we don't have an elite wideout that is worth covering by an elite CB.

Welker is an asset to the team regardless what you guys think, letting him go without first trying to add an elite WR is stupid. Welker just adds to the offensive weapons, I don't get why some of you would even think about letting him go with those numbers. And those numbers are without a legitimate elite WR threat to boot.

 

[Elijah T.]

So you're willing to pay 6mm for 120-1500 production?

Please pass the grass.

We can't guarantee that Welker is going to stay healthy, or that he'll continue his production.

Teams aren't paying players for what they've done, but what they project they will do.

 

[Elijah T.]

Ding ding ding we have a winner. They shutdown Welker easily because we don't have an elite wideout that is worth covering by an elite CB.

I agree.

That's why I don't think we should pay Welker elite money.

 

[Ivan]

If they tag him, how does it settle the question? They can work out a home town discount deal still, or even decide to trade away if they feel they can';t sign him to what they want and that they could move on.

My argument doesn't have any logic to you because you're dogmatic...you don't want to hear any other view apart from your own because, in short, you think you're right and won't listen to the opposite side of the spectrum.

You're a very dogmatic person. It's not a good trait

I've only learnt one new thing from this argument; and I think it's that Ivan seems to be more of the idiot here....despite the fact that anyone who's disagreed with him is apparently an 'idiot', a 'moron' a 'fantasy GM' or a 'Maddenatie'...pretty laughable.

Stay respectful and accept there isn't one view.

I engage in many many discussions here and it is only the occasional argument where one side is beyond ridiculous where I become "dogmatic" and that is because there is no reasonable other side, such as the Trade Brady Keep Cassel "debate" which was equally stupid.

Not every argument is valid, and your argument against Welker (e.g..he's 5'10) is a good example of this. Welker has proven beyond any question just how good he is, and the arguments against that are insipid.


Tell me, if you say that Brady should be replaced by Hoyer and I say that is braindead does that make me dogmatic or sensible?

 

[Ivan]

My argument doesn't have any logic to you because you're dogmatic...you don't want to hear any other view apart from your own because, in short, you think you're right and won't listen to the opposite side of the spectrum.

.

Your argument isn't logical. Saying he isn't worth it because he is 5'10 is ridiculous not logical, and you actually cited that as a reason

As for listening, I have heard these arguments for a long time and it has now reached a point where it has become idiotic. People here were saying exactly the same things prior to last season and after Welker had one of the greatest seasons a WR has ever had they are back saying the same crap again. After a point the disconnect between the reality and their arguments gets absurd, and that is where wed are right now, and your insistence that the Patriots paying him 10 million won't matter shows that the person who is actually dogmatic is actually you, because Welker's production and the value they set on him won't matter one bit, but being 5'10 will. That's not only dogmatic it is stupid.

 

[Ivan]

Prior to the 2011 season Welker's critics said "Trade Welker, He's 5'10 and Edelman can replace him easily and he won't be as productive in the two TE offense....." Edelman does nothing on offense and Welker goes off for 120/1500 and Welker's critics say "let him go, he's 5'10 and can be easily replaced..........."

Who is "dogmatic...?"

 

[Jangles]

Fortunately this argument will be settled pretty quickly as the Patriots will have to make a decision on tagging him. If they tag him it settles the question of whether or not he is worth 10 million. I'm sure the Maddenites will continue to argue otherwise and they will shriek about how many Madden Lombardis they are losing out on but those of us who love real football can take solace in the knowledge that their chance of returning to the Bowl next season are greatly enhanced by Welker's presence.

Has "Madden" always been used on these forums as some sort of insult?

Good Lord I'm embarrassed for some of you.

OT: How many real Lombardi trophies have the Pats brought home with Welker on the team?

 

[Ivan]

Has "Madden" always been used on these forums as some sort of insult?

Good Lord I'm embarrassed for some of you.

OT: How many real Lombardi trophies have the Pats brought home with Welker on the team?

I'm embarrassed for those who use it in discussions about real football as though Madden performances had a bearing on the real game.

Welker has been a big factor in the Patriots success and suggesting that not getting a ring diminishes his value is beyond stupid. Seriously, you guys say things like this and then get upset when your intelligence is questioned. He is clearly one of the best players in football and he gets treated like a scrub by those who quote his measurables (he's 5'10) and his lack of value to Madden Football. Those who do this deserve the scorn they get because they are beoing jackasses.

 

[JackBauer]

We can't guarantee that Welker is going to stay healthy, or that he'll continue his production.

Teams aren't paying players for what they've done, but what they project they will do.

Based on that logic, we can't resign or sign anybody.

 

[JackBauer]

OT: How many real Lombardi trophies have the Pats brought home with Welker on the team?

Yeah. Damn that WW for not singlehandedly bringing home the Lombardi.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Your argument isn't logical. Saying he isn't worth it because he is 5'10 is ridiculous not logical, and you actually cited that as a reason

As for listening, I have heard these arguments for a long time and it has now reached a point where it has become idiotic. People here were saying exactly the same things prior to last season and after Welker had one of the greatest seasons a WR has ever had they are back saying the same crap again. After a point the disconnect between the reality and their arguments gets absurd, and that is where wed are right now, and your insistence that the Patriots paying him 10 million won't matter shows that the person who is actually dogmatic is actually you, because Welker's production and the value they set on him won't matter one bit, but being 5'10 will. That's not only dogmatic it is stupid.

Prior to the 2011 season Welker's critics said "Trade Welker, He's 5'10 and Edelman can replace him easily and he won't be as productive in the two TE offense....." Edelman does nothing on offense and Welker goes off for 120/1500 and Welker's critics say "let him go, he's 5'10 and can be easily replaced..........."

Who is "dogmatic...?"

Yet againnnn the point has been entirely missed. He's playing more as a split end...not a true slot receiver. IMO we can replace the production in the slot...slot receivers can be replaced. However, you cannot have a 5'10" 185 lb guy playing out wide....it's suicidal and it restricts us.

How is that point idiotic?

 

[Ivan]

Based on that logic, we can't resign or sign anybody.

The only valid point the Welker critics have made is that he shouldn't be re-signed if he wants ridiculous money, and that hasn't even happened that we know of. They want their arguments treated as though they have merit when they actually haven't made any points that warrant merit.

 

[Ivan]

Yet againnnn the point has been entirely missed. He's playing more as a split end...not a true slot receiver. IMO we can replace the production in the slot...slot receivers can be replaced. However, you cannot have a 5'10" 185 lb guy playing out wide....it's suicidal and it restricts us.

How is that point idiotic?

Good thing the Panthers made Steve Smith a DB, he never would have made it as a wideout at 5'9




That's how.

 

[Ivan]

Yet againnnn the point has been entirely missed. He's playing more as a split end...not a true slot receiver. IMO we can replace the production in the slot...slot receivers can be replaced. However, you cannot have a 5'10" 185 lb guy playing out wide....it's suicidal and it restricts us.

How is that point idiotic?

Yoou have already made it clear that no amount of production or the value the Patriots set on Welker make him worth it. You are wed to your dogma and nothing Welker can do can change that, after all, he's 5'10..............



Where is Chad Jackson when you really need him, he's tall and fast. Brady would kill it if they had him.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Good thing the Panthers made Steve Smith a DB, he never would have made it as a wideout at 5'9




That's how.

Steve Smith ran a 4.38 coming out of College. Welker a 4.55. The speed is a huge factor in the difference between the two. Look...at...the...tape. Don't just take a peak at the stat sheet.

You can see what;s restricting our offense, and it's not having a true split end.

 

[Elijah T.]

Based on that logic, we can't resign or sign anybody.

No.

It means you place a proper value on a player with the entire roster in mind and don't pay him any more than that.

You can't pay everyone top $.

 

[Ivan]

Steve Smith ran a 4.38 coming out of College. Welker a 4.55. The speed is a huge factor in the difference between the two. Look...at...the...tape. Don't just take a peak at the stat sheet.

You can see what;s restricting our offense, and it's not having a true split end.

Ryan Leaf was the 2nd overall, why did we ever stick with Brady when he became available, his measureables were awesome....


Look at the tape???????????????????????

LMFAO-If you look at the tape the only thing you will see is that Wes Welker is an all pro WR, and the measureables and his draft status are irrelevant. ************ the league passed on Welker because of BS like his forty and you want to dredge that up as though it has relevance. Seriously? And you want to be taken seriously. There is abig difference between the combine and real football., and Welker is not only the consumate football player but also one of the best to ever play the game, his critics are out of their frigging minds.

Clearly there is nothing that Welker can do to warrant his pay because he's too short, too slow, and he plays in the slot.


When reality is meaningless to an argument then the person denying it is the dogmatic one, not the one citing the actual facts and the reality of it. Welker can never get taller and he won't get faster so he isn't worth it regardless of how good a player he is and how much he produces. And you had the balls to suggest that i am the one being "dogmatic?"

 

[Elijah T.]

Steve Smith ran a 4.38 coming out of College. Welker a 4.55. The speed is a huge factor in the difference between the two. Look...at...the...tape. Don't just take a peak at the stat sheet.

You can see what;s restricting our offense, and it's not having a true split end.

I'm pro-Welker.

But I'm not making him out to be something he isn't.

He isn't an X receiver. X receivers command big money because they can get down the field and beat man coverage.

Welker is a crossing route, quick out, slot receiver.

We have two tight ends that can dominate the same portion of the field as Welker.

I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand the argument here.

 

[Ivan]

Steve Smith ran a 4.38 coming out of College. Welker a 4.55. The speed is a huge factor in the difference between the two. Look...at...the...tape. Don't just take a peak at the stat sheet.

You can see what;s restricting our offense, and it's not having a true split end.

Once again with the "restricting the offense" BS. Not having better outside receivers restricts the offense and they can add that, Welker contributes more than any other receiver, there is NOTHING "restricting" about that. You keep acting as if the Patriots can't bring in WR without getting rid of welker and that is just another in a long line of "points" you have made that have zero merit